CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[Jade]

Someone mentioned earlier that the garage code was needed to close the garage doors as well as open them. That's the way ours works as well. And.....it's an interesting point.

How did the killer leave? Did he leave by the front/back door of the house? If so, WHY was Audrey's body in the garage?

:twocents:

Have you ever tried to force the door either open or closed without the use of the keypad?

I imagine since it is a safety feature it wouldn't be easy and may even foul up the system so the door doesn't open or close correctly for the next user.

Do we know if the dogs were in their crate?

If they were free the perp would have had to left by the garage door instead of going back through the house to go out another door.

Unless they were friends with the dogs -even then I wouldn't take a chance under the circumstances as GSDs may be very concerned about Mom and the commotion with a inclination to blame the guest.

I don’t have the link ready but I recall PK saying that the dogs never warmed up to him…

I never really had PK in my sights but then I started to notice “inconsistencies”.

On the other hand IF A had opened the garage door to a guest then closed it behind them then something happened and the perp was stuck in the garage they could have slipped through the house past the crated dogs and out another door.

She had her coat on so she must have meant to visit for a bit. If she wasn't expecting company and was just out for the paper or mail I would think she would have brought the dogs along.

Having had a dear now departed GSD I know they are very keen on going out doors when anyone else was just because they are like shadows and also the yard must be checked for squirrels and rabbits at every opportunity.

All imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey's Indian Trail street is now on GOOGLE STREET VIEW


Link showing MAIL BOX : http://goo.gl/maps/fOSG2

Link showing DRIVEWAY : http://goo.gl/maps/ggipy

This is very remote and hidden. The killer could have changed clothes in amongst the trees. I doubt a passing truck or car driver/passenger would even have noticed!

I just went back to read the initial news of this crime - Audrey was viciously stabbed many times. How on earth could it look like "she slipped on some ice"? The news said it was 'horrendous'. How could anyone mistake it for a 'slip on the ice'?

If the crime was as vicious as reported, Audrey had to have been murdered inside the house. How could the white car remain free of blood/scratches?

A real conundrum.....

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

A response about the garage doors we have. Once, my husband opened the garage door with the keypad and then he quickly placed some stuff inside the garage. To leave the garage, he used the keypad which we have beside the mudroom door and he had to run to get out of the garage before the door came crashing down on him! He barely made it!

We have TWO keypads - one outside beside the garage doors and another keypad inside the garage, beside the mudroom door.

So, I suppose if someone knew the code to the garage they could punch it in INSIDE the garage and make a run for it to get out.

My husband is older and therefore less agile than the other person who knew Audrey's code!

 

[Jade]

A person who is capable of such may also be capable of seeing the crime as really not too bad.

A person who did this is not going to be shocked as an innocent coming upon the scene.

A person may not be as shocked as they don’t consider themselves depraved in totality and may even feel justified as they committed their terrible deed.

I have hoped that the worst of it all was postmortem so there may not have been much blood spraying but more, as PK described, pooling.

Hopefully she was hit in the head from behind and never knew another thing.

all imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh, another thing about the garage doors - we each have a remote control for the garage doors.

I leave the remote in my car, even when it goes to GM for servicing.

Could someone have stolen Audrey's remote control? Or taken it for the purpose of murdering Audrey?

 

[Woodland]

In thread #2, page 17, post #425 PK states the code was not needed to close the garage door. AG could have had an older model garage door opener/closer where the code was not needed to close the door. She had been there a long time.

PK could be misleading though.

 

[Woodland]

If there was a pool of blood as stated by PK, then the killer should have (had to have?) left bloody footprints if this was a frenzied, manic attack. Especially if a 'sexual component' occurred as well - unavoidable as I see it.

I agree the Camaro was too pristine as mentioned by NSU - the garage was 'packed right tight' with AG's things according to PK.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

In thread #2, page 17, post #425 PK states the code was not needed to close the garage door. AG could have had an older model garage door opener/closer where the code was not needed to close the door. She had been there a long time.

PK could be misleading though.

I just ran out to the mudroom to have a look at the garage. I was wrong:

1. The keypad outdoors DOES require a CODE.

2. Outside of the mudroom, beside the door which locks to the inside of our home. there is A BUTTON WHICH DOES NOT REQUIRE A CODE. You just hit the button and the garage door begins to close. This is the button my husband hit the day he was nearly crushed by the rapidly closing garage door.

Aploogies for the confusion.......MY confusion!! :blushing:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

About leaving bloody footprints - perhaps the killer wore something like a hazmat suit with booties, head covering and body covering. Then the killer disposed of the bloodied clothing/covering and went home in his daily clothing.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Sorry, but I'm on a roll here!:blushing:

About the garage and the Camaro.

1. The handyman said the garage was jam-packed filled with stuff including the bench.

2. Camaros are WIDE cars.

3. I have a 'Vette and hubby has a Mustang. Both 'look' like smaller, two-door cars.

4. My 'Vette will not easily fit into the garage. It would be too much of a tight squeeze. So I park outdoors.

5. The Mustang is also a tight squeeze so it's parked outdoors.

HOW did Audrey get that car into the garage with all of the stuff? How big was the garage? How did the car remain pristine? Was Audrey's body touching the car after the murder?

Something doesn't make sense here. Sports cars are low BUT they do tend to be wide.

---------------

ETA:

Given all I've posted about wide sports cars above - was Audrey's Camaro moved out of the garage during the killing and then placed back inside the garage after? That might keep it pristine as well!

 

[Woodland]

I'm thinking the footprints were wrong for a crazed killing, which pointed LE back to someone known to AG - ie staged. PK made no mention of seeing bloody footprints leading out of the garage or anywhere else - not that he had to.

I think the killer put on coveralls and footwear brought with them to commit AG's murder. Then took the now bloody outerwear off and put them in a plastic bag in order to carry them away, and carry them in a vehicle where no trace would likely be found, or lessening the chances of that.

I agree NSU!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:blushing:Another question:

If I recall correctly, when Audrey was murdered it had been raining. Was the car completely dry or were there raindrops/a damp-like feel to the car?

 

[Hazel]

Apologies if this link has already been posted in previous Thread, and I missed along with many other posts I didn't get to read.

Note to Mods: If it is deemed this link is not part of our sleuthing, but more like 'advertising' PLEASE by all means, delete my post

http://www.spettlaw.ca/Practice-Areas/Murder-Homicide-Vehicular-Homicide.shtml

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:blushing: One more and then I must go make some lasagna!

There are some killers who shave their entire bodies in order to not leave trace evidence.

I think that could be the case here (except the head hair because it would be questioned by others). With a completely hairless body and doing the killing naked, the chance of leaving trace evidence is lowered.

(Thanks for putting up with my many posts!!) :blushing:

 

[Hazel]

Someone mentioned earlier that the garage code was needed to close the garage doors as well as open them. That's the way ours works as well. And.....it's an interesting point.

How did the killer leave? Did he leave by the front/back door of the house? If so, WHY was Audrey's body in the garage?

:twocents:

That was NOT a post regarding Audrey Gleave's. Poster was talking about another case. Here is the link in case you want to read more about it:
post #171 = Canada - Sandra Mykytiuk-Evans, 56, teacher missing in Calgary, 29 Dec 2012

While reading on the thread for the missing teacher Sandra Evans in Calgary her daughter posted that the lack of missing keys could be explained by her leaving through the garage door.

And then, this is the interesting part imo, stated that the key code was required to close the garage door upon exiting.

It is post #171 so it can be inspected to make sure I am reading correctly!

This is what PK had to say about Audrey's garage-door keypad:

I can say that the code was not required to close the door and most of the time when Audrey was inside, the garage door would be closed.


see: last sentence, second paragraph
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7145607#post7145607

 

[Woodland]

Hazel - great to know DNA from AG's crime scene was not a match to DLS - so LE does have something.

Thanks!

 

[Hazel]

Oh, another thing about the garage doors - we each have a remote control for the garage doors.

I leave the remote in my car, even when it goes to GM for servicing.

Could someone have stolen Audrey's remote control? Or taken it for the purpose of murdering Audrey?

That's possible ... maybe someone who didn't know the code

 

[Sillybilly]

Hazel - great to know DNA from AG's crime scene was not a match to DLS - so LE does have something.

Thanks!

Whatever that something is ("forensic evidence" therefore not necessarily DNA), it effectively resulted in the immediate release of DLS. Presumably that "something" should also have the potential to eliminate PK, but it appears it has not done so todate :waitasec:

 

[Jade]

That was NOT a post regarding Audrey Gleave's. Poster was talking about another case. Here is the link in case you want to read more about it:
post #171 = Canada - Sandra Mykytiuk-Evans, 56, teacher missing in Calgary, 29 Dec 2012


This is what PK had to say about Audrey's garage-door keypad:

Oops, sorry everyone :blushing:

I thought the information on the keypad from the other case was relevant to A's.

I had read PK's post :blushing:

Don't suppose he would offer the information if it wasn't true.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

That was NOT a post regarding Audrey Gleave's. Poster was talking about another case. Here is the link in case you want to read more about it:
post #171 = Canada - Sandra Mykytiuk-Evans, 56, teacher missing in Calgary, 29 Dec 2012


This is what PK had to say about Audrey's garage-door keypad:

:blushing:Many apologies for being an idiot..............:doh:

NOTE TO EVERYONE: Please IGNORE my posts about keypads. I must be a nutbar.........:nuts: