CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Audrey could have opened the garage herself and the killer took advantage and rushed in. She might have wanted to take out trash, or a number of other reasons to open the garage door.

If that was the scenario, wouldn't there be marks of some kind on the car? A complete stranger/crazed maniac isn't going to care about Audrey's pristine car. There would be blood splattered all over the car and PK would have known immediately what had happened to her.

:twocents:

 

[Sillybilly]

Audrey could have opened the garage herself and the killer took advantage and rushed in. She might have wanted to take out trash, or a number of other reasons to open the garage door.

LE has reason to believe the perp is someone known to Audrey, so I have a tendency to not think of a blitz style of attack that would fit more with the perp being a stranger. But I suppose even someone who knew her could have taken advantage and rushed in.

 

[Sillybilly]

Maybe i'm missing something, but seriously ... the more i think about it, how does a friend, who for 30 years visits once or twice a week, let you know they have arrived for a visit? We don't have the advantage of knowing the layout of the house, but with a few hundred visits, and you don't have the garage code, what is your routine? Do you drive up and rap on the garage door, hoping your friend will hear you, or do you rap at the front door on another side of the house, and when it is answered you are then sent back to the garage on the other side of the house to wait for your friend to open that door so you can just sit on the bench? Or, do you go around the perimeter of the house, at times trudging through deep snow, rapping on windows, hoping your friend is in one of the rooms to hear you?

Sorry, but i find that all kind of bizarre.

ETA: What was the routine with LV?

 

[dotr]

Could this case shed some light on Audrey's murder?


http://www.globaltoronto.com/police...+death+of+elderly+woman/6442806816/story.html
"TORONTO – Toronto police have issued a warrant for first degree murder in the death of a 78-year-old woman.

Manijeh Bostani-Khamsi was found dead in her apartment building near Wynford Drive and Eglinton Avenue in November, 2012"





Snip.

"“I believe she was targeted,” Carbone said. “The question is why?”

 

[Sillybilly]

I was just talking with a friend about the case, and they thought it odd that in 30 years, Audrey would only have LV inside once because she was so embarrassed about her cluttered home, but in the final accounting, she left the whole enchilada to LV .. mess and all

On another note, by PK's own admission, he had been in various rooms in the house, therefore the natural course of events is that his prints should be found anywhere / everywhere. If PK's prints were not found (or just minimally found), that would smack of someone having gone to the trouble of wiping the house down to eliminate their own prints (which would result in PK's disappearing as well).

 

[Sillybilly]

If that was the scenario, wouldn't there be marks of some kind on the car? A complete stranger/crazed maniac isn't going to care about Audrey's pristine car. There would be blood splattered all over the car and PK would have known immediately what had happened to her.

:twocents:

In Colette's theory, I guess it is possible that Audrey was initially confronted and controlled in the garage, forced inside her home where she was knifed and bludgeoned, and she then ended up in the garage by whatever means (whether she crawled there or was dragged there).

IMO, if Audrey was conscious at all after an attack inside the house, she could have crawled to a phone or at least taken comfort with her furbabes, instead of using her last energy and breath to crawl outside to die on the cold floor of a garage in winter. Was she moved there by the perp, and if so, why?

 

[SideKick]

Just dropping in. I sure hope this case gets solved soon, Audrey deserves Justice.
I agree with you NSUnturned that she may have been murdered in her house as apparently the garage was spotless.... Car - no signs of death...
The hardened blood PK said he saw is rather interesting, as blood is pretty thick it would take awhile to harden? What are the coincidences that the murder and the delivery of the cake are so close together?
Odd...
Was Alex verified at work cake delivery day?
Just askin'...

 

[SideKick]

Thanks SillyBilly! I agree with you.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I'm also wondering about how LV made contact once she would arrive at Audrey's house. Cell phone? "Hello, I'm out here. Would you please come to the garage?" It makes no sense.

Also, I'm thinking of PK - his problem is that he IS the perfect killer statistics-wise:
- young and close
- white males between the ages of 18 - 35 are supposedly the most "dangerous"
- he knew the code
- he knew everything about the house
- he made a date to bring the cake

He's PERFECT as a fall guy. Almost MORE perfect than DLS was! :what:

Did LV set up PK to find the dead body?

There has to be a piece to this puzzle that we're missing.

Who are the other POI's?

 

[roseofsharon]

Is it possible A was attacked in her home, feigned unconsiousness/death so the killer would leave and then was attempting to go to her neighbour's home across the street for help and collapsed on the garage floor from shock and then died there. Repeating, but eyes open indicate she would have been conscious when she died.

With this scenario, imo, A had a holiday visitor ... someone probably using the excuse to drop by because she was not feeling well over the holidays. Most people, once Christmas Day and Boxing Day have past, have more time for visiting.

imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And now, just to throw a spanner in the works - a handyman is wanted for murder:

http://www.cp24.com/news/warrant-issued-in-murder-of-elderly-woman-1.1151756

<<< In a release, police said they have issued a warrant for first-degree murder for the suspect, who is believed to be living in the Philippines.

The warrant comes almost three months after 78&#8211;year-old Manijeh Bostani-Khamsi was found dead in her Wynford Drive condo near the Don Valley Parkway on Nov. 17. Police at the time said there were obvious signs of trauma to her body. They also said they believe someone targeted Bostani-Khamsi, entering her home and killing her the day before she was found. >>>



Read more: http://www.cp24.com/news/warrant-issued-in-murder-of-elderly-woman-1.1151756#ixzz2KcuowPth

 

[Chorley8]

Questions:

Do we absolutely know the perpetrator made it into the house?

If no then is there any chance Audrey was killed elsewhere then brought back and laid on the garage floor? IF the fatal injury was the blow or blows to the head and IF the knife injuries were inflicted post-mortem then there would not be much blood. IF she she was killed elsewhere and knifed while alive then surely she would have lost a lot of blood and LE would know this - that is why I am bringing up the possibility of the possible post-mortem injuries. Certainly PK here did not say "there was blood all over the floor" of the house. So to be a bit crude about it where is all the blood?

Side: I agree about the hardened blood - would three days even be enough? Could be a false memory of P.K.s though on purpose or not.

I am still amazed that we don't have a "last time seen" for Audrey - if we distrust the accuracy L.V. and P.K.and the vet have said as I do and believe someone else could have been in the house sending e-mails that we can go way back.......perhaps to the previous coffee klatch. However P.K. said LE was asking about his movements within a few days I believe the few previous to him finding her - will have to go back to that thread. So it sounds like they think something happened within the timeline we are looking at here.

Is it likely they know what day she was killed?

 

[Sillybilly]

Was Alex verified at work cake delivery day?
Just askin'...

<rsbm>

Now that you mention it SideKick, I wonder which days PK and AK worked throughout that week in question. How likely is it that AK would only start back to work on a Thursday (dunno, maybe the restaurant industry doesn't operate within a conventional work week schedule)? It seems that PK was not scheduled to work on the Thursday, so was he off work the rest of the week while (if) AK was working?

ETA: This is what PK had to say about his week:

from:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

As for myself, I spent the 26th-28th with my wife and the 29th at work.

IOW, PK and AK were supposedly together Sunday Dec 26 through Tues Dec 28, he worked Weds Dec 29 (unknown if AK did), and she worked Dec 30 but it appears he may not have been scheduled (or was to arrive later in the day on the 30th)

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

In Ontario, restaurants are closed on Christmas Day.

Where were PK and AK on Christmas Day? I know.......someone will come along and say they were *likely* with family as we all tend to be. But is there proof of that? Is it verified by LE?

Whose family? Isn't PK's family a five-minute drive from Audrey's house?

And someone mentioned that Audrey could have been murdered elsewhere and brought back to the garage. That's possible. I hadn't thought of that one either. If that's the case, it leaves the blood elsewhere and the killer (apparently) free! Maybe she was 'wearing her coat' as the killer brought her back home......dead. The dead body would look like a person (alive) in his vehicle.

I wonder how many police are out on those back roads during the Christmas - New Years time? Perhaps not many at all!

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

From Chorley:

<<< Do we absolutely know the perpetrator made it into the house? >>>



No, I don't think we do!

 

[LeftCoaster]

[H]ow does a friend, who for 30 years visits once or twice a week, let you know they have arrived for a visit? We don't have the advantage of knowing the layout of the house, but with a few hundred visits, and you don't have the garage code, what is your routine? Do you drive up and rap on the garage door, hoping your friend will hear you, or do you rap at the front door on another side of the house, and when it is answered you are then sent back to the garage on the other side of the house to wait for your friend to open that door so you can just sit on the bench? Or, do you go around the perimeter of the house, at times trudging through deep snow, rapping on windows, hoping your friend is in one of the rooms to hear you?
ETA: What was the routine with LV?

<rsbm; rbbm>

I will go back and check to be as sure as possible, but I was under the impression that Audrey visited LV once or twice a week, mainly the 9:30 Sunday morning coffee at LV's place in Brantford. IIRC, LV was rarely at the house on Indian Trail, with both women preferring to meet at the golf course or golf club up until a few years before Audrey's death. That would bear out LV's claiming to have only been in the house once, she "thinks."

However, I continue to find it highly peculiar that this 'BFF' to whom Audrey left the entire kit and caboodle, with it to go to LV's brother in the event of LV not being there, would be less familiar with the interior of the house than PK. Not wanting a friend to see clutter or mess is understandable to a point, but if PK was in the house for more than handyman purposes, it indicates a trusting friendship.

Not that I know what to make of all these weird details and disconnects over two years since Audrey's murder. Either LE has kept a tight lid on one very fascinating investigation, or we'll be waiting a long, long time before any more progress is made toward the arrest of the perp. :notgood:

 

[Woodland]

I've had the same question for a few days LeftCoaster - where did LV visiting AG once or twice a week come from?

 

[LeftCoaster]

http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/04/its-all-so-horrifying

Vanstone said she has known Gleave for more than 30 years. They met when Gleave was a member of the Brantford Golf and Country Club.

Gleave left the club a few years ago but the pair remained friends, visiting once or twice a week. Gleave attended a lot of the Vanstone family gatherings, such as Thanksgiving, Christmas and Easter.

Vanstone said she last saw Gleave Dec. 27.

"She was here Boxing Day but was feeling under-the-weather," she said.

"I took some soup out to her on Monday morning and that was the last time I saw her."

..."She was an eccentric, eclectic individual and very private," Vanstone said. "Private in a very big way.

"All of the times I visited her, I think I was only in her house once.

"Usually, we sat on a bench outside the house where we would talk."

Gleave was an avid golfer with many golfing buddies, Vanstone said.

Gleave lived for her two German Shepherds, her shopping trips to Costco (her favourite store) and summer drives in her racy Chevy Camaro, she added.

"She loved her dogs but I never really trusted them," Vanstone said. "They were always kind of roaming around when I was there and when we sat and talked I didn't dare get up suddenly or make any quick movements."

Gleave had no children. And Vanstone said she believes that Gleave had not spoken to her former husband, who lives in Sturgeon Falls, for years.

bbm

Reading somewhat between the lines here, I don't think LV was too cool with the dogs, and that explains her not having been in the house often, or "once" - depending on which is the more accurate account. :twocents:

Interesting also to see this again with the definitive claim that LV was definitely there on the 27th to deliver soup. A close friend of 30 years, you would think, would notice anything out of order (Audrey's behaviour, a sense that she wasn't alone, if she wasn't alone, etc.). Oh, to have been a fly on the wall to hear the final conversation, if it included Audrey's intention to attend the coffee club....

 

[Sillybilly]

OMG ... it came from me. My apologies !!!

I have no clue how I misinterpreted that article to mean that the "once or twice a week" was strictly LV visting AG. I wish someone had slapped me sooner.

 

[Woodland]

LV avoids saying whether she went inside the house or not with the soup.