CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[LeftCoaster]

OMG ... it came from me. My apologies !!!

I have no clue how I misinterpreted that article to mean that the "once or twice a week" was strictly LV visting AG. I wish someone had slapped me sooner.

:slap:Easy does it, there, SB! I think I can speak on behalf of our fellow Sleuths when I say you come up often with valuable observations.:takeabow: I think given the many discrepancies we've been confronted with in MSM, Wells, and other sources, we're all beginning to hallucinate a bit here!:flashback:

 

[Sillybilly]

we're all beginning to hallucinate a bit here!:flashback:

Seems when i'm not hallucinating i'm fabricating :liar: :banme:

just skip on by my stuff :escape:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Oh SB, it's OK. This case is enough to make all of us hallucinate. Look at LE - they arrested DLS!! And......the killer runs free.

:bang:

 

[roseofsharon]

When a person was outside A's home, her dogs must have barked and alerted her that someone was outside.

On A's last day, when the dogs barked as the killer approached, A must have entered her garage to open the garage door to the killer. Since she was found wearing her stretchy pants, imo the killer arrived in the day.

Since she was wearing her coat, imo this indicates she was planning on visiting with the person outside her home.

"A" may have smoked a cigarette and then the killer may have suggested going inside due to being cold, but first requested A to put her dogs in their crates before entering the home.

Motive for the killing ... ???

Just trying to visualize what might have occurred that day.

imo

 

[Chorley8]

When a person was outside A's home, her dogs must have barked and alerted her that someone was outside.

On A's last day, when the dogs barked as the killer approached, A must have entered her garage to open the garage door to the killer. Since she was found wearing her stretchy pants, imo the killer arrived in the day.

Since she was wearing her coat, imo this indicates she was planning on visiting with the person outside her home.

"A" may have smoked a cigarette and then the killer may have suggested going inside due to being cold, but first requested A to put her dogs in their crates before entering the home.

Motive for the killing ... ???

Just trying to visualize what might have occurred that day.

imo

Trying to match with what you have here which is great:


1. Cake delivery: Audrey could have been coming to accept the cake from P.K. on an earlier date(!) As far as I know we have only been told cake delivery was the the 30th since P.K. told us that. The gift that keeps giving.

(Then there could be a second cake delivery to discover the body).

2. Fatal soup delivery followed by cake delivery to find the body either beknowst or not to P.K.

3. Somebody else. Who? (But why not stick with the deliveries we know of for a bit!)

 

[Sillybilly]

Trying to match with what you have here which is great:


1. Cake delivery: Audrey could have been coming to accept the cake from P.K. on an earlier date(!) As far as I know we have only been told cake delivery was the the 30th since P.K. told us that. The gift that keeps giving.

(Then there could be a second cake delivery to discover the body).

2. Fatal soup delivery followed by cake delivery to find the body either beknowst or not to P.K.

3. Somebody else. Who? (But why not stick with the deliveries we know of for a bit!)

<bbm>

Re "discover the body" in a PK scenario ... why? I agree, but why not let someone else do that?

Re the "fatal soup" scenario ... if Audrey was in fact at LV's on Boxing Day, she maybe mentioned PK coming Thursday with the cake. So, why bring the soup Monday? Maybe to know that there were two full days to rummage and find 'whatever' (i.e. a new Will cutting out a bunch of the worldly goodies), Audrey would at least be found in the garage Thursday (no lengthy decomp inside the house), and suspicion would certainly fall on PK (gotta be a guy if sexual component involved?!). IF "fatal soup", do you think it was to subdue Audrey, and possibly the attack and sexual component was all added to deflect from toxicology.

Given the horror of what LE encountered, how sure are we that toxicology was even a consideration? SURELY IT WAS !! ??

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

So we know about the soup and the cake deliveries. IF there had been a prior cake delivery wouldn't LE have found remnants of it inside the house? Unless the cake crumbs had been perfectly cleaned away! (?) Was Audrey's kitchen as pristine as her car?

Did Audrey have a dishwasher?

All we really know is whatever PK told us. Also, MOST of the Jon Wells' articles came from PK as well.

Our only "source" seems to be PK!!

:waitasec:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Regarding toxicology - if memory serves, the only tox tests we heard about were done on the dogs. We heard little/nothing about the autopsy from LE.

 

[Chorley8]

So we know about the soup and the cake deliveries. IF there had been a prior cake delivery wouldn't LE have found remnants of it inside the house? Unless the cake crumbs had been perfectly cleaned away! (?) Was Audrey's kitchen as pristine as her car?

Did Audrey have a dishwasher?

All we really know is whatever PK told us. Also, MOST of the Jon Wells' articles came from PK as well.

Our only "source" seems to be PK!!

:waitasec:

I wasn't thinking that a cake would be left there. In fact there would not have to actually be a cake on the first visit just the promise of one.

And cake 1 could follow soup (if we think soup benign OR to knock Audrey out. (Though how could you be 100% sure she would eat the soup? Unless someone insisted just take a sip I want to see you try it. They seem more likely to be contrary scenarios. But right now I kind of like this theory provides an elegant solution to the problem of who she was waiting for.

Sillybilly: so why P.K. finding the body? Great confidence that he could charm his way into the hearts of LE which he did at first it seems. Possibly begin to point towards the first suspect (even though he said here he didn't believe he was the killer doesn't mean he didn't tell LE the opposite.) Have some control over the crime scene and to surveil LE. Also cake 1 would not actually have to be P.K. just say his car. She could have said just come in the garage and I will come to the garage/house door (for just about any reason we don't know her habit in this regard - not everyone uses the main entrance to their house).

Another question LE hopefully asked P.K. did anyone borrow your car between 25th and 30th? If you drove up tight to the garage would Audrey know who was in the car? Would love to know if the garage door had glass anyone know?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I wasn't thinking that a cake would be left there. In fact there would not have to actually be a cake on the first visit just the promise of one.

Oh, that's good. Hadn't thought of that one.

PK claims he spent the days before the cake delivery day with AK. I don't think this has ever been proven...........:waitasec:

 

[roseofsharon]

Trying to match with what you have here which is great:


1. Cake delivery: Audrey could have been coming to accept the cake from P.K. on an earlier date(!) As far as I know we have only been told cake delivery was the the 30th since P.K. told us that. The gift that keeps giving.

(Then there could be a second cake delivery to discover the body).

2. Fatal soup delivery followed by cake delivery to find the body either beknowst or not to P.K.

3. Somebody else. Who? (But why not stick with the deliveries we know of for a bit!)

Very interesting Chorley! and I really did not understand why only a piece of cake. Did that mean a slice or a slab of the cake and if the cake was supposed to be A's xmas gift, why not the whole cake and as Stone has asked ... where did this cake end up?

Regarding the soup ... one bowl of soup! I would think a friend would bring enough soup for at least two to three days ... did LE find a container of soup in the fridge or at least a disposable bowl in A's garbage. What did the soup arrive in and what kind of soup was it and were the contents of the soup found in A's stomach ... or was the soup still on the kitchen counter? These are some questions I would like to see LE answer.

imo

 

[roseofsharon]

AG was at LV's Boxing Day and was not feeling well and then less than 24 hours later, LV is delivering soup.

It's hard to believe A would not have had a can of soup in her home and A sounded well enough to open a can of soup, A was not bedridden, so when did LV make homemade soup, as according to LV, she delivered the soup to A's in the a.m.

Also, if the soup was already made and perhaps in containers in a freezer, then why not give A the soup when she left LV's home on Boxing Day.

Did LV call A on Boxing Day to see how she was feeling and suggest bringing some soup.

LV would not have known that A told PK that LV was bringing soup.

Where was the cake and where was the soup when A was found?

imo

 

[Sillybilly]

Oh, that's good. Hadn't thought of that one.

PK claims he spent the days before the cake delivery day with AK. I don't think this has ever been proven...........:waitasec:

i.e. .. the old 'spouses can't testify against' thingy could be at play?

There are exceptions under the Canada Evidence Act but I don't think first degree murder (231(1) of the CCC) falls under those exceptions.

See "Witnesses" 4(2) of the Canada Evidence Act :

http://www.canlii.org/en/ca/laws/stat/rsc-1985-c-c-5/latest/rsc-1985-c-c-5.html

Sooo, if PK can't recall precisely what he did on those days in question, surely LE will be able to verify his and AK's alibi/whereabouts through their school/employers/family/friends/etc.

 

[roseofsharon]

Stone, I could only find a picture on images with A's garage door open.

Note the lights. They are on. I can't tell if these are those sensor lights.

If these are sensor lights, it reinforces my own belief that the killer arrived in the daylight.


http://www.thespec.com/photozone/307921--lynden-homicide-investigation

imo

 

[Chorley8]

Stone, I could only find a picture on images with A's garage door open.

Note the lights. They are on. I can't tell if these are those sensor lights.

If these are sensor lights, it reinforces my own belief that the killer arrived in the daylight.


http://www.thespec.com/photozone/307921--lynden-homicide-investigation

imo

Use of secondary infection not sure what you all think - how commonly is it used by lay people compared to say nurses and doctors? Definition:

'secondary infection
infection by a pathogen following an infection by a pathogen of another kind'.

Huge concern in hospital environments these days of course.

1. The purpose of the email if NOT by Audrey could chiefly be to keep P.K. at bay i.e. secondary infection sick don't come over P.K. said she hated to spread germs - but she's taken care of L.V. is coming over, coffee group promise could be to relieve his mind i.e. she is getting back to normal soon OR since there is probably no contact between coffee klatch and P.K. so to fill up Wednesday for him as well again keep him at bay.

2. OR it could be P.K. covering for himself. But the language doesn't feel like P.K.

3. Or it could be Audrey herself keeping P.K. at bay, lying slightly since she has an important visitor (as has been broached here).

 

[Chorley8]

No Stone: "PK claims he spent the days before the cake delivery day with AK. I don't think this has ever been proven.."

Does sound like some reaching for an alibi - home with the missus etc. However LE asked him several times to describe his movements over those days so there must be movements - increasingly difficult these days to say you stayed home for three days and didn't call anyone, text anyone etc.

This is what we don't have for Audrey either of course knowledge of email activity or computer use, logging on etc. LE has this for sure. Would love to know, frustrating....

One major reason to need time in the house would be to get at her computers. But you would think LE could figure this out if files were erased. No way she would give up all of her passwords without a fight.

Question: in one of his posts P.K. seemed to suggest that Audrey would be willing to sit with a stranger passerby on the bench in the garage. Or did I read that incorrectly? Seems like a strange line that hasn't been discussed here.

 

[Hazel]

I'm sure you've all already seen these images many times. Re-posting them, to remind us that Audrey's garage was a two-door garage.

:waitasec: I wonder if her body could have been found on the right-hand side area, and if so, I am wondering if there was blood splatter on the inside of one or both garage doors.

(The link to the video where I captured these screenshots, is no longer working )

more screenshots at link : http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6002779#post6002779

 

[Hazel]

VIDEOS that still work: (please feel free to add more links)

( 1 ) http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/retired-lynden-teacher-found-murdered-in-her-home-1.591182

( 2 ) http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/memorial-service-held-for-audrey-gleave-1.592671

( 3 ) http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/hamilton-police-urge-vigilance-after-senior-s-slaying-1.591134

( 4 ) http://www.citynews.ca/2010/12/31/community-shocked-by-retired-teachers-murder/

( 5 ) http://video.stthomastimesjournal.com/video/featured/latest/1425936366001/gleave-memorial/1461709314001

( 6 ) http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/01/05/remembering-audrey

( 7 ) http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/2011/02/12/man-charged-in-sex-slaying

( 8 ) http://www.calgarysun.com/videos/entertainment/music/89783644001/scott-arrested-in-gleave-murder/1461709329001/page/7

( 9 ) http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/charges-withdrawn-in-audrey-gleave-murder-case-1.652837

( 10 ) http://kitchener.ctvnews.ca/audrey-gleave-murder-remains-mystery-one-year-later-1.747175

 

[Sillybilly]

:waitasec: I wonder if her body could have been found on the right-hand side area, and if so, I am wondering if there was blood splatter on the inside of one or both garage doors.

<rsbm>

Don't know the dimensions of the garage, but i've always thought that Audrey would have pulled in on the right hand side of the garage in order to fully open her driver's side door. The Camaro has pretty massive doors, and had she pulled in on the left with the driver's side closer to a wall, the door might not have fully opened (unless of course the garage is much wider than it appears in pics).

JMO

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

A number of thoughts before I head out for the day:

- thanks to Hazel for the shot of the two-door garage - I wonder if there was another code for each garage door on ONE keypad

- we have a two-door garage BUT only ONE door will open with the code we've installed - our keypad is set up so we can set a SECOND code for a house-sitter, etc.

- I agree that Audrey must have used the right side garage in order to swing open the huge (and heavy!) Camaro door

- about the cake (!!!!!!!!!) I always had the impression that PK brought a whole cake rather than a slice or two

- since the cake was a Christmas gift, wouldn't you think that AK (a chef!) would plate it on a platter with a Christmas motif and perhaps attach a knife (as someone already suggested)

- we can purchase lovely plates at a Dollar Store which the person can keep - this takes away the hassle of having to return the plate to the owner

- about the "spouses cannot testify against each other thing" - that's good and I hadn't thought of that one!

- did AK also have a polygraph - is that where "the discrepancies" come in

OK, gotta get going. I'll be back tonight! I have more thoughts but no time now!!

:cupcake: