CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #6

[greenthumb]

ummm....cake vs no cake LOL! couldn't resist :truce:

'There are many temptations in this life, but cake is probably one of the biggest of them.”
― Alexander McCall Smith, In the Company of Cheerful Ladies

:wink:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I don't believe I will ever forget Audrey, just as I will never forget Victoria Stafford.

Oddly, I still fluctuate between theories stranger vs known
dna vs no dna
etc etc.
ummm....cake vs no cake LOL! couldn't resist :truce:

Ohhhh Lily - you have more courage than I have. You had the courage to mention the C-word twice!

But seriously, I don't fluctuate as you seem to say you're doing. I'm sticking with 'young and close and KNOWN'.

*Waiting somewhat patiently for that oven timer to go DING*

 

[dotr]

Thinking of the "Hamilton Stabber" and looking to see what became of him, found this older link fwiw...
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/662717--cafe-s-arrest-was-a-quiet-event
"In the months before his arrest, 25-year-old Loujack Nougues Café would go to the Francophone Employment Resource Centre on Main Street East every day like clockwork to use a compute"r

 

[dotr]

OT Amazing story concerning retired teacher from Ontario!!

http://www.ottawasun.com/2013/04/15/ottawa-area-teacher-rescues-abducted-girl-in-france
"A retired Perth teacher's decision to travel the backroads of France launched him into the middle of an abduction and sexual assault last week.

Jack Hurd said he's grown tired of using the word "surreal" to describe the incident, but it is certainly an apt description.

But the retired high school music teacher believes he was destined to make all those unplanned, random turns on country backroads. The trek led him to a bound and gagged 11-year-old girl - the victim of an abduction and sexual assault".

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...rescues-kidnapped-girl-in-france.html?cmp=rss

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

:lurk:

 

[LeftCoaster]

:lurk:

Some food for thought:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/life...t-are-we-rushing-to-judgment/article11359265/

Lurking, indeed, while I have nothing constructive to offer other than wishing that an arrest will soon be made in this case.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The article was about rushing to judgment and online sleuthing.
Ovens and cupcakes and lurking have nothing to do with Audrey's death/murder/vicious killing.

Colette, what do YOU think Audrey's murder was all about? And more to the point.....WHO do you think murdered her?

Thanks.....

 

[colette]

Colette, what do YOU think Audrey's murder was all about? And more to the point.....WHO do you think murdered her?

Thanks.....

I had answered my feelings on Audrey's murder in post # 606 of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
Who do you think is responsible for Audrey's murder, and what information do you base your opinion on?

I think it is some young man who either lived near Audrey or visited the area. I think he was between 16 and 25. I think he peeps in windows and is unknown to Audrey. I base this on: most crimes of elderly women with a sexual component were committed by young men in the neighborhood (visiting or live there) 2 such crimes were recently committed by young men in the neighborhood of victims in my area. I have seen this type of thing repeat over and over. Audrey was murdered by some young guy who watched her and attacked.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I had answered my feelings on Audrey's murder in post # 606 of this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sillybilly View Post
Who do you think is responsible for Audrey's murder, and what information do you base your opinion on?

I think it is some young man who either lived near Audrey or visited the area. I think he was between 16 and 25. I think he peeps in windows and is unknown to Audrey. I base this on: most crimes of elderly women with a sexual component were committed by young men in the neighborhood (visiting or live there) 2 such crimes were recently committed by young men in the neighborhood of victims in my area. I have seen this type of thing repeat over and over. Audrey was murdered by some young guy who watched her and attacked.

Thanks. And where do you think this young peeper is now? Why haven't we had ANY other elderly women so viciously murdered right here in Audrey's area? (We have had elderly women killed in various other parts of Canada and Ontario but NONE close to Audrey's home).

And HOW did the peeper get into Audrey's home/garage? LE said there was no forced entry!! Would Audrey allow a stranger to enter her premises?

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement:

<<< Audrey was murdered by some young guy who watched her and attacked. >>>

Yes indeed......young and close and he knew her habits/movements/times of comings and goings/her lifestyle.

We agree............:drumroll:

 

[LeftCoaster]

...I think it is some young man who either lived near Audrey or visited the area. I think he was between 16 and 25. I think he peeps in windows and is unknown to Audrey. I base this on: most crimes of elderly women with a sexual component were committed by young men in the neighborhood (visiting or live there) 2 such crimes were recently committed by young men in the neighborhood of victims in my area. I have seen this type of thing repeat over and over. Audrey was murdered by some young guy who watched her and attacked.

<rsbm>

I agree, colette - with Audrey Gleave teaching in high schools and taking continuing education courses, it is possible that she interacted with many young men over the course of her career. We're aware of her having at least hired one young man to help her with odd jobs around her house and property, and we know this only because that particular young man had the apparent misfortune of discovering the crime scene.

However, there might well have been others, and one of my own theories :moo: is that Audrey's fears were provoked by a falling-out, either in the classroom and not forgotten by the other party, or with a young helper in the community. Another theory, well, let's just say I've outlined it in other posts, as about the only explanation I can think of for why the dogs were confined and unharmed. We know of one individual for whom Audrey would make sure the dogs were not a problem. Nowhere in MSM or Wells do I see that she would confine the dogs around her current handyman.:twocents: However, we've seen in more than one account that another person with quite a lot at stake was uncomfortable with the dogs and is very likely to have been the last person to see Audrey alive.

And...to reprise the chorus...NONE of us will know for sure until an arrest is made, which I hope to goodness is before much longer. With several sickening cases in the Ontario news, it's reasonable to wonder whether the investigation is still as active as LE claims it is.

Indeed, the horrible activity in Boston has no more to do with Audrey Gleave's demise than cakes and baking and oven timers. However, picking a pet theory and rejecting all others in the sleuthing of crime is what stood out to me in the article and what I thought might be worth sharing.:twocents::moo: I am not interested in protecting any POI so much as ensuring that this thread, with its attention to keeping Audrey's memory alive, remains a place where we can agreeably share information.

:tyou:

 

[dotr]

Cafe anyone?
BBm
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/article/662723--who-is-this-man-police-say-is-a-serial-killer



Susan Clairmont
Sun Jan 29 2012

"Hamilton police have registered the 25-year-old father who has Toronto gang connections with the province’s Serial Predator Crime Unit, a legal obligation when detectives believe they have a serial killer on their hands. The unit, which is under the governance of the Ministry of Community Safety and Correctional Services, will investigate whether Café may be connected to any other violent crimes in Ontario.
A serial predator can be either a serial killer — or one who attempts to kill — or a serial sex offender.

A case is filed with the unit if police believe an accused “is guilty of two or more random attacks,” says Staff Sergeant Steve Hrab, the Hamilton detective who is the major case manager overseeing Café’s arrest. “We are obligated, by law, to be in contact.”

“We continue to investigate any incidents within our community and within the province that might be linked to this individual,” he says"

Snip.


Café, the Canadian-born son of Haitian parents, claims to be the founder of an organization called A Righteous Socialist Organized Nation — or ARSON — for short. On another Facebook page, he rants about “the 21st century version of slavery through exploitation” and warns that “people are getting needlessly rich off of your life.”

On another Facebook page, where Café spells his name Caafe, he says he was a student at Mohawk College, went to high school in Ottawa and likes books about Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X. It says he enjoys volleyball and golf, and lists The Color Purple and Gladiator as favourite movies"

 

[colette]

Thanks. And where do you think this young peeper is now? Why haven't we had ANY other elderly women so viciously murdered right here in Audrey's area? (We have had elderly women killed in various other parts of Canada and Ontario but NONE close to Audrey's home).

And HOW did the peeper get into Audrey's home/garage? LE said there was no forced entry!! Would Audrey allow a stranger to enter her premises?

:

I think he may have sneaked in the garage as the electric door was closing and attacked her there in the garage. She could have been out for a quick errand and had her dogs locked up while she was away. She could have been attacked getting out of her car or going up to her inner door. She may not have even noticed him, he may have rolled on the ground as the door was closing.

If not a random person with a hatred of elderly women..... then

Left Coaster, you might be on to something about former student or continuing ed student. Someone with a grudge and hatred for Audrey sure could be the killer.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I think he may have sneaked in the garage as the electric door was closing and attacked her there in the garage. She could have been out for a quick errand and had her dogs locked up while she was away. She could have been attacked getting out of her car or going up to her inner door. She may not have even noticed him, he may have rolled on the ground as the door was closing.

This could very well be the case. But if so, I must ask about the following:

- DNA - was there any DNA left at the scene which did not belong to one of Audrey's friends/neighbours?

- did this perp/peeper enter Audrey's house OR was the killing committed only in the garage area?

- if he was "just" a peeper, what led him to such a vicious killing? (Perhaps Audrey saw him and surprised him?????)

- if Audrey was merely stepping out for a smoke, why were the dogs confined?

- when bringing in groceries from the Camaro, did Audrey shut/lock the garage door OR did she leave it open in order to gain entrance (comfortably) to the trunk of her car......thus allowing the perp entry to the garage when she was taking grocery/shopping bags into the house?

- did he come prepared with the killing weapon?

- weren't we told that the garage was packed with stuff? If that's the case, where did this peeper hide in the garage? Crouched down on the far side of the car, I suppose.

- did he kill her in daylight or in the dark of night?

Still, so many questions!

No mater WHO the killer is, I still feel that it is a male. Just my gut feeling tells me that this isn't a female's manner of killing.

And as always, I could be terribly wrong here.

:moo:

 

[dotr]

With lots of "hold-back" info. in this and of course many cases, wondering why LE chose to reveal that the crime had "a sexual component" and that a perverse act of taking a "trophy" was clearly revealed?

Often it seems those details come out later or not at all, so there must be a very specific purpose in revealing the 'unmentionable" deviant detail.
Could it be they want "sleepover" partners( temp. or otherwise) to report any suspicious "freaky" behavior?
Or what?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from dotr:

<<< wondering why LE chose to reveal that the crime had "a sexual component" and that a perverse act of taking a "trophy" was clearly revealed? >>>



Perhaps:

- to make it sound like it was a male killer?

- to insinuate it could be a serial killer?

- to emphasize the brutality of it?

- to freak out the killer himself?

:twocents:

 

[Chorley8]

Anybody have a date when that info sexual component, trophy idea was first released? Just thinking of whether it was intended to fit an unknown or to fit the first suspected I mean the one who was charged.

Any evidence this was fed to media to upset killer?

One possibility: they know such an event occurred, they are watching several suspects. They carefully release that info then see who reacts.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I think the sexual component was released right away, by Hrab. In one of his first press conferences.

Not certain about the trophy info, though. In fact, I'm not sure the trophy info was ever released by LE to the media. I forget where we learned that from.

And charges against DLS didn't hold up.....not at all. So, I think we can pretty much rule him out.....for good! :scared:

:twocents:

 

[dreamwatcher]

Use of semi-colon.
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/semicoln.html
quote
"It may be useful to remember that, for the most part, you should use a semicolon only where you could also use a period."

So judging by the rule we can replace the semi colon with a period and begin with a new sentence.

 

[greenthumb]

Use of semi-colon.
http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/semicoln.html
quote
"It may be useful to remember that, for the most part, you should use a semicolon only where you could also use a period."

So judging by the rule we can replace the semi colon with a period and begin with a new sentence.

Very interesting that a single punctuation mark can change the meaning so much! I found this info about semicolons -

http://writemindset.com/gps/865/commas-semi-colons-colons.html

Semi colons separate two complete sentences that are closely related in thought. In other words, the second sentence (the one after the semi colon) relates directly to the first sentence, usually continuing the first idea with more detail

BBM

http://books.google.ca/books?id=pmhTZJuEsfkC&pg=PA106&lpg=PA106&dq=Hrab+did+not+reveal+additional+pieces+of+the+picture,+details+only+the+killer+would+know,+what+investigators+call+%E2%80%9Chold-back+evidence&source=bl&ots=cnJ-RcESmN&sig=SFB0n9XxTwYMwW1FCdwtEwK62bk&hl=en&sa=X&ei=MzpWUf38MOb9ygHLqICoBg&ved=0CEMQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=Hrab%20did%20not%20reveal%20additional%20pieces%20of%20the%20picture%2C%20details%20only%20the%20killer%20would%20know%2C%20what%20investigators%20call%20%E2%80%9Chold-back%20evidence&f=false

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons &#8212; at least one other had been used &#8212; or the nature of the &#8220;sexual component&#8221; (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)

So if we apply the definition above, then 'the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir' directly relates to 'it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault'.

Both sentences are enclosed by round brackets -

http://www.grammar-monster.com/lessons/brackets_round_and_square_brackets.htm

Round brackets are used to insert additional information in text.

So I interpret that to mean that both sentences refer back to 'the sexual component'.

My interpretation is that the taking of a 'souvenir' was related to the sexual component, which was a 'perverse' act. Which has led some of us to speculate that the souvenir may have been an intimate body part.

All just MOO.

 

[greenthumb]

http://www.thespec.com/news/crime/ar...-investigation

Took this link from Thread 1, post #36 - it's the first reference to a 'trophy' that I have found, but it's not linking the 'trophy' to the 'sexual component' at all...

Bracing against the wind at the foot of Audrey’s long gravel driveway on Indian Trail Road, Hrab’s answers to media questions make some aspects of the case more clear, others more uncertain.

There are items missing from Audrey’s house, he says. What they are, he won’t say. Valuables? Trophies?

Does it strike anyone else odd that the reporter would specifically mention trophies? Makes me wonder if that word was being used in discussion but Hrab would not 'officially' make a statement about it. All just my own speculation.