CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #8

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Every single morning when I take the kitchen garbage out to the large container in the garage, I think of Audrey. BUT, my car isn't in the garage because it's too wide. My husband's car also remains outdoors. Hence, the garage is fairly empty.

I now wonder if Audrey's killer was hiding behind her car, inside the garage, and that's how she was murdered? Her car has a high rear end and someone could easily hide behind the car.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Further to my post above about the garage:

- Audrey would not have expected anyone to be in the garage
- please remind me - WHERE was the bench? Behind the car, beside the car or in front of the car.
- other than thinking of Audrey when I go to the garage in the mornings, all I'm worrying about is a mouse! :blushing: So far, so good! Hence, one's garage should be a safe place and I'm sure Audrey felt that way as well.

:twocents:

 

[dotr]

Further to my post above about the garage:

- Audrey would not have expected anyone to be in the garage
- please remind me - WHERE was the bench? Behind the car, beside the car or in front of the car.
- other than thinking of Audrey when I go to the garage in the mornings, all I'm worrying about is a mouse! :blushing: So far, so good! Hence, one's garage should be a safe place and I'm sure Audrey felt that way as well.

:twocents:

Off the top of my head, the bench was outside iirc, and it was taken away to be examined by forensic team.


On another note, wondering why the info about the 'perverse trophy" that was taken from Audrey was released by LE.
Wouldn't that type of info. normally be kept from the public and if so, why would it be revealed in this case?
Could it be so that a partner, or family member of perp, might recognize the fetish, if indeed that is the case, or so the public can keep eyes open for any weird objects?

 

[Woodland]

Not sure two german sheppards would allow someone to sneak into a garage and hide. They would likely be aware of a mouse as well. Jmo. Why would the dogs needs to be caged/kenneled for a garbage run? Why not take the dogs and the garbage to the garage at the same time, especially on a cold day?

For the second time in 3 years or so, have run into the same experience with someone's Will - under no circumstances will a lawyer give an original Will to an executor or any family member. In both cases, a change in lawyer was/is required due to location where a Will was written and where the Will/POA's was/will be dealt with.

Too valuable a doc to be in the hands of anyone as I understand it, and it could be tampered with. Money can make people do things they normally would not do.

Seems to me one is vulnerable if their Will is not filed with a law office, or their intended heirs/beneficiaries are vulnerable. At least law office's seem to think so.

Jmo.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from dotr:

Could it be so that a partner, or family member of perp, might recognize the fetish, if indeed that is the case, or so the public can keep eyes open for any weird objects?
Reply With Quote

I understand where you're going with this, but (let's say) my husband stashed a body part in a freezer somewhere. Wouldn't I see it if I went to the freezer for food?

And where else would a body part be kept if not in a freezer? Unless the perp had a storage place where he kept the freezer. Or a place in the garage where NO ONE ever went - like a tool shed, auto parts place, etc.

Hmmmm............

:dunno:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from Woodland:

Not sure two german sheppards would allow someone to sneak into a garage and hide. They would likely be aware of a mouse as well.

Not to be argumentative, but perhaps the dogs would be quiet IF they *knew* the person.....or the mouse! :floorlaugh: (Sorry, couldn't resist).

For example, our parrots don't scream when my husband comes into the driveway and into the house BUT today they raised a LOUD fuss when I had a UPS guy coming up the front steps. That said, the parrots scream their heads off when we BOTH are away and arrive home. It's their way if saying 'We're lonely and please feed us'.

:twocents:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

And back to the bench - as dotr said, it was outside and we know it was taken away by LE.

So,my theory of someone crouching down behind the car MIGHT be plausible. Maybe.

Let's face it, I'm grasping at straws here................:scared:

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted again from dotr:


On another note, wondering why the info about the 'perverse trophy" that was taken from Audrey was released by LE.
Wouldn't that type of info. normally be kept from the public

Yes. Was this a huge mistake made by LE? I also wonder WHY LE gave out that info. Must be a reason.

 

[Woodland]

Fwiw - not sure that the term 'perverse trophy' can be attributed to LE. Have been reading initial posts from thread 1, and do not see that term used. It came later at some point, and possibly from MSM, but not sure who made the statement. It could have been a reporter's interpretation of a statement by LE.

Initial terms used were -

- repeatedly stabbed
- injured in other ways as well
- there was a sexual component

Above are from articles dated 6 and 7 Jan 2011, The Spec and Brantford Expositor.

Also FWIW, came across PK's initial statement to the press - from The Spec dated 6 Jan 2011 and the Brantford Expositor dated 5 Jan 2011. See thread 1, page 4, posts 76 and 90.

'It was a horrific scene, he told the Spectator, and he keeps seeing flashbacks.'

This statement was unavailable in the Expositor on 6 Jan 2011 according to post #90, but was available on 5 Jan 2011. Fwiw.

 

[Sillybilly]

And back to the bench - as dotr said, it was outside and we know it was taken away by LE.

So,my theory of someone crouching down behind the car MIGHT be plausible. Maybe.

Let's face it, I'm grasping at straws here................:scared:

From PK's post, it is my understanding the bench was not outside the garage:

from:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

Just some clarifications re: the bench. It spent most of its time sitting behind the Camaro in the entranceway to the garage

I do find that a bit odd because when the Camaro was towed, it was apparent that Audrey did not back into the garage, but pulled in. For the bench to be "behind" the car is unusual, unless he meant behind and to the side ... otherwise she would have had to move the bench each time she backed out.

 

[Sillybilly]

Fwiw - not sure that the term 'perverse trophy' can be attributed to LE. Have been reading initial posts from thread 1, and do not see that term used. It came later at some point, and possibly from MSM, but not sure who made the statement. It could have been a reporter's interpretation of a statement by LE.

<rsbm>

The word "perverse" came from JW's article in The Spec:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/

He spoke of a vicious stabbing but did not talk about other weapons — at least one other had been used — or the nature of the “sexual component” (it had included a perverse act that went beyond a conventional assault; the killer had taken something from the victim as though making off with a souvenir.)

HTH

 

[dotr]

<rsbm>

The word "perverse" came from JW's article in The Spec:

from:
http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2215939-who-is-audrey-gleave/



HTH

Thanks for the links I should have provided in the first place!
The confusion (mine!) concerning the bench placement came from these lines..

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/
bbm.

"Living alone out on Indian Trail, she would occasionally have coffee and chat with a neighbour &#8212; but always outside her house, on a bench, hardly ever inside."


http://www.ottawacommunitynews.com/news-story/2182146-friends-remember-audrey-gleave/

bbm.

" Occasionally Vanstone would go out to Gleave&#8217;s home, she said.

Whether it was a snowstorm or heat wave, they would always sit outside on a bench and chat. They would talk about everything &#8212; golf, animals, cars"

 

[Woodland]

So JW is specifically attributing the term 'perverse act' to Hrab from Hamilton Homicide, formerly in charge of this case? 100% without doubt Hrab said that to JW 'on the record'?

I'm only wondering as the 'perverse' statement follows -

Hrab did not reveal additional pieces of the picture, details only the killer would know, what investigators call &#8220;hold-back evidence.&#8221;

Will go with Hrab said that, unless Hrab disputes that. Thanks, SB.

Perverse act vs perverse trophy? Troubling statements, possibly at odds with one another, imo

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

As per PK, if the bench was behind/nearly behind the car, that indicates the killer could have been waiting for Audrey to come out to the garage for a smoke on the bench.

She wouldn't have been anticipating another person to be in the garage!

:twocents:

 

[dotr]

As per PK, if the bench was behind/nearly behind the car, that indicates the killer could have been waiting for Audrey to come out to the garage for a smoke on the bench.

She wouldn't have been anticipating another person to be in the garage!

:twocents:

If the bench was outside, and if Audrey was there smoking on that fateful day or night, someone could have slipped into the open door, or followed her as she went back inside the garage. imo.

 

[Paragirl]

I took Pk's description of the placement of the bench to mean that it was behind the car (requiring it to be moved out of the way when the car was being driven out). If it was behind the car at the back of the garage (furthest from the doors), or to the side of the car, it would be difficult to see over/around the car to survey the property or watch the dogs run.

AG would spend lots of time sitting on the bench having a smoke or watching the dogs run or just surveying the property

It could be described as somewhat being "outside" if it was at the garage doors because with the doors open...you would almost be sitting outside. If it was one of those decorative wrought iron and wood patio benches it wouldn't be too difficult to just drag off to the side when it had to be moved.

 

[Sillybilly]

If the bench was outside, and if Audrey was there smoking on that fateful day or night, someone could have slipped into the open door, or followed her as she went back inside the garage. imo.

Probably wouldn't have happened that way if Audrey adhered to her usual routine/custom of lettings the dogs out when she was outside.

From that same post ^^ by PK:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Audrey Gleave, retired teacher, viciously murdered in home, Ancaster Ontario, #2

It is certainly possible that AG would have sat out on the bench having a smoke with the garage door open and the light on, however, AG rarely spent time outside by herself. If she wasn't expecting a visitor she almost certainly would have let the dogs out for a run if she was sitting outside. If AG was inside and not intending to go out, the garage door would be closed.

Audrey had electric fencing installed to keep the dogs on the property. If there was nobody else there, there was no reason for those dogs not to be outside with Audrey.

Brings us back full circle to that nagging question of why the dogs were confined in the first place.

 

[greenthumb]

I took Pk's description of the placement of the bench to mean that it was behind the car (requiring it to be moved out of the way when the car was being driven out). If it was behind the car at the back of the garage (furthest from the doors), or to the side of the car, it would be difficult to see over/around the car to survey the property or watch the dogs run.

It could be described as somewhat being "outside" if it was at the garage doors because with the doors open...you would almost be sitting outside. If it was one of those decorative wrought iron and wood patio benches it wouldn't be too difficult to just drag off to the side when it had to be moved.

Although it seems inconvenient, that is what I picture, as well. Perhaps AG didn't go out often, and didn't find it too troublesome to move the bench off to the side when she did.

And also, the bench may have been moved into the garage during the winter - but set outside the garage doors for the warmer months, which would account for other references to it being outside.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quoted from ParaGirl:

I took Pk's description of the placement of the bench to mean that it was behind the car (requiring it to be moved out of the way when the car was being driven out). If it was behind the car at the back of the garage (furthest from the doors), or to the side of the car, it would be difficult to see over/around the car to survey the property or watch the dogs run.

That's exactly how I took it as well. Perhaps the bench was outdoors in warm months (hence, PK's use of the word "most").

Perhaps Audrey pushed the bench to the side of the car when driving the car out of the garage. This would be a good place (on the bench) to put her groceries, etc. once she returned home. Then, close the garage door and take the groceries indoors.

:twocents:

 

[MsSherlock]

Just a bit of review from Jon Well's story in the Spec
" After Christmas, she felt under the weather. Monday morning, Dec. 27, AG emailed PK and declared she would make her Wednesday coffee meeting come hell or high water. LV brought her soup.

Monday afternoon she loaded Togi and Schatze into the Camaro and visited veterinarian DC in Ancaster to pick up vitamins for the German shepherds. She let the dogs run on his property as usual. She gave him a hug when she left, as she often did.

Later that day, at about 6 p.m., she emailed a friend, LF. She forwarded LF the same music video she had sent PK that morning. " <all full names snipped>

So, IMO it's pretty clear that AG visited the vet after the soup was delivered on the Monday and before she sent the music video to LF.

Also there's been a lot of talk about where the bench would have been. According to this article- AG had a double car garage- that would have meant that there was a lot of room for a bench.
" He walked to the twin automatic garage doors outside.

He punched in the code on the keypad. The door rose. The Camaro was parked in its usual spot, both its doors closed.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2216816-audrey-s-story-continues/