CANADA Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #9

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  • #1,021
This is where I got coffee cake from!!!

Thank you. Cake. The word used for 11 years has been cake. Why stop now?

Yes, I posted that link. Why do I think it matters to set the record straight? That is the wrong term for this key item in the tale of Audrey, as it has been spun for us. It came from one person. That person has directed the narrative on all things Audrey for the past 11 years. If that key item is wrong, and it is, what else is wrong? Why has one person directed the narrative for 11 years, and why have we allowed it?

Of course we all get to make our own choices, so I will call it a fruit bread or yeast bread or anything but a "cake" from now on. It is a fruit bread with a very long shelf life. No need to worry about it going bad in a day or two, or to gobble it down after seeing a dead person surrounded in blood. It won't go stale that quickly.
 
  • #1,022
What irony if "cake" dissing was what got Audrey killed. Just a thought.
 
  • #1,023
What irony if "cake" dissing was what got Audrey killed. Just a thought.

If she took it as seriously as we have been led to believe, yes. Serious connoisseurs of regular stollen could get into the nitty-gritty of marzipan vs. almond paste vs. nothing, or store-bought peel vs. homemade peel.
 
  • #1,024
This is where I got coffee cake from!!!

Thank you. Cake. The word used for 11 years has been cake. Why stop now?
The thing is... it is true that so much of this story seems to be all about the 'cake'.

The only person that knows about the 'cake' is one person (and presumably their spouse).

It is that one person who tells us:
  • AG requested it, according to the one person
  • how she knew about the cake in the first place (her ex husband used to make it), according to the one person
  • where the recipe came from (Time magazine), according to the one person
  • that it was her favorite 'cake', according to the one person
  • that AG apparently called it 'coffee cake', according to the one person, which then I guess the person shortened to simply 'cake' when in fact it is a 'sweet bread' (but wouldn't sweet bread be interchangeable with coffee cake?)
  • AG and the one person had arranged sometime before xmas to get together on xmas day at which time the cake would be given as AG's xmas gift, but that a couple of days prior to xmas day AG informed the person, apparently via email, that she was too ill to meet two days later on xmas day; the new date was then later arranged by phone on xmas day when the person called AG to see how she was doing and presumably to wish her a merry xmas and the new date was scheduled for FIVE days later according to the one person, even though it seemed that AG was able to keep her boxing day plans with her friend LV for the very NEXT day
  • so in LE's mind, it may seem that hopefully they have emails to prove that this get-together was indeed originally scheduled for xmas day and then subsequently cancelled two days before xmas day, but then there seems to be NO verification that a future date had in fact been scheduled, since THAT communication was done by phone instead of by email, even though AG was said to have emailed the person 2-3 times per day every day
  • then even though the person hadn't received the usual daily emails from AG on the Tuesday, nor the Wednesday (police believe she was killed on the Monday), and even though AG also did not answer her phone when the person was on their way to her house for the unverified-prescheduled-by-phone-visit on the Thursday, they still proceeded to AG's house for their get-together
  • then the person arrives, punches in the code which only they and AG knew, to raise the auto garage door, and the person sees the grisly site of their dear friend lying contorted on the garage floor in dried blood with ripped pants, and they tell LE they were carrying the 'cake' at the time
  • then later the person changed the statement to say they left the 'cake' in their car when they got out to enter the garage, and presumably later again, LE notices this discrepancy and asks about it, and the person can't remember, and now 'thinks' they must have left the 'cake' in the car
  • and we know the type, material, and manufacturer of the container holding the 'cake' and that it had a domed lid and so therefore we also know the size of the said container, and of the bakers here, we also know from baking experience that this particular type of 'cake' would not have required such a large container as it is more dense than 'cake'; further, since this was the only thing AG had expressed a desire for when the person asked her what she'd like for xmas, one might imagine that a pastry chef might presumably be interested in presentation and plating, and perhaps placing said xmas gift on an attractive xmas plate or china plate, or something, as part of the 'gift', but instead it was in the name-brand domed-lid, large container that you can't see the cake through
  • and we know the end story of the 'cake' and that it got eaten by the person and his spouse apparently when they got home (even though they'd said they'd dropped the spouse off at work (spouse worked in Dundas, which is a hike to where AG lived) on his way to AG's house that day, and why do we know this? I'm presuming that LE must've asked what happened to the cake - was this perhaps because they wanted to verify that said cake actually even existed? All evidence of said 'cake' now eaten/gone. (But somehow I don't think LE asked these questions until sometime after DS had been released as 'the suspect' some months later, imo.)
As sleuthers, I think we also know that it is often believed by some (professional and non professional), that when many inconsequential details are shared, it can be interpreted as 'distraction', to take the focus off of the main point and let the mind instead wander to trivial things, and it also highlights that many inconsequential details are remembered, but meanwhile, the more pertinent details are forgotten, and/or changed, etc.

Did the two really have a prescheduled date to get together? There seems to be no proof of that, even though there seems to be proof that originally they were to get together. If there was a prescheduled date arranged for Dec 30th, why was it for the 30th, as it seems so many days after xmas, when people are generally back to work; on xmas day when these arrangements were reportedly made, AG must've known at that time that she felt well enough to still continue with her plan to attend LV's boxing day dinner the very next day, so why not schedule for say, the day after that, the Monday then? Or the Tuesday? Why not until Thursday? It seems PK has been asked about the days around the murder, and he said, "As for myself, I spent the 26th-28th with my wife and the 29th at work." The original plan was to get together on xmas day, which one might imagine a newlywed might want to spend the day with their new spouse for their first Christmas together as a married couple, or perhaps their own family, or perhaps the spouse's own family, but yet the 26, 27, and 28th were said to have been spent with the spouse, as if perhaps that would've been an unsatisfactory time to have rescheduled the get-together for.

And PK originally said he was carrying the 'cake' with him when he went into the garage, and why wouldn't he have been? He had a scheduled meeting, so he knew AG was expecting him (so much so that he didn't feel it necessary to confirm said meeting with AG before heading out, even though she'd been ill, and even though he hadn't heard from her in 2.5 days, which by his own account was not typical), and who would want to get out of the car into the cold, into the freezing garage, up to the door, wait for AG to answer said door, and then go back out through the garage and to the car to retrieve the reason for the visit? That doesn't make sense. It also doesn't make sense that he did carry it into the garage, because when did he put it back into the car? Before calling 911? Or did he keep holding it while calling, and then put it into the car when asked to go back and feel for a pulse? Either way, when prompted to think about that, wouldn't one remember having to put the cake back into the car because it interfered with the job at hand that his hands needed to do next?

----
"I know the Amazing Grace email has surprised some people. I found this to be less of a surprise than the fact that I didn't receive any emails from the 28th-30th. It was typical for me to receive 2-3 per day"

----
I looked at the scene for only a fraction of a second before darting away. I saw hardened blood on the floor and that, along with the contortion of her body was what prompted me to call 911 and tell them she was dead. While I was on the phone with 911 the woman insisted that I go back and feel for a pulse. Even though I begged her not to make me and told her I was certain Audrey was dead, she didn't relent and I walked back.
----
 
  • #1,025
I believe that was here, but the link is not working.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/5809219-who-killed-audrey-gleave-/

I did find this.

CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2

"When I raised the door". For someone focused on minutiae, that strikes me as different from saying he opened the door, which is how I would describe the use of a keypad or remote. You don't need to raise the door. The door raises itself. You enter the code. You click the remote door opener. The door opens. This reminds me of when concrete workers asked me to pop the emergency release before I left for the day, so they could pour the driveway. They could then raise the door manually.
Wouldn't you be thinking the same thing if he had instead said, "When I opened the door"?
 
  • #1,026
Here is more about the cake and its origins (not sure if link still works):

Gleave was a bit of a foodie and loved some particular recipes, including a specific spaghetti sauce and a coffee cake her ex-husband had made many years ago, he said. So for Christmas, Gleave asked for one of these cakes from Kinsman, whose wife, Alex, is a pastry chef.

Gleave was feeling ill over Christmas, so they arranged to drop the cake off the following Thursday morning. It was with the gift in hand that Kinsman stumbled on the horrific scene.


https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2183648--that-s-so-audrey-/
I have to throw this in here:

As for the questions regarding the cake, it was a bunt cake called "Texas Stoellen" from Time Magazine's series of books from foods around the world. :D

CANADA - Canada - Audrey Gleave, 73, Ancaster ON, 30 Dec 2010 #2
 
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  • #1,027
.... the tale of Audrey, as it has been spun for us. It came from one person. That person has directed the narrative on all things Audrey for the past 11 years. If that key item is wrong, and it is, what else is wrong? Why has one person directed the narrative for 11 years, and why have we allowed it? ...
We have to consider that perhaps we'd perhaps know none of this stuff if not for the verified insider telling us (or the newspaper via the verified insider). Then where would we be? jmo.
 
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  • #1,028
  • #1,029
Wouldn't you be thinking the same thing if he had instead said, "When I opened the door"?

Normally people open the door. They don't say, "I raised the door," unless they are opening an overhead door manually. The concrete workers told me they would raise the garage door manually if I pulled the emergency release before I left for the day.

That is an important difference, and part of why I wondered about use of the emergency release vs. entering with a door remote or via passcode on the keypad. Forced entry vs. entering by raising the door manually -- if someone said they raised the door manually, would that be forced entry if they also said they knew we the door code and were authorized to use it?

Linguistic choices make a difference to the police, IMO. There is a profession called "forensic linguist".
 
  • #1,030
Stollen is spelled incorrectly, too. Bunt = bundt. Please don't get me started on Bundt cake. I had my pan out just the other day.
Haha. Yes, I didn't want to mention the spelling. I'm going to tell myself that 'bunt' was simply a typo. I think Stollen can go either way, I've seen it both. imo.
 
  • #1,031
We have to consider that perhaps we'd perhaps know none of this stuff if not for the verified insider telling us (or the newspaper via the verified insider). Then where would we be? jmo.

Exactly my point. We might be focusing on other things.
 
  • #1,032
Haha. Yes, I didn't want to mention the spelling. I'm going to tell myself that 'bunt' was simply a typo. I think Stollen can go either way, I've seen it both. imo.

Details, details. Some matter. Others don't.
 
  • #1,033
Normally people open the door. They don't say, "I raised the door," unless they are opening an overhead door manually. The concrete workers told me they would raise the garage door manually if I pulled the emergency release before I left for the day.

That is an important difference, and part of why I wondered about use of the emergency release vs. entering with a door remote or via passcode on the keypad. Forced entry vs. entering by raising the door manually -- if someone said they raised the door manually, would that be forced entry if they also said they knew we the door code and were authorized to use it?

Linguistic choices make a difference to the police, IMO. There is a profession called "forensic linguist".
Yes, agreed.. but in his case, I interpreted it to simply mean that he 'raised the door' by punching in the code, rather than by manually raising it by hand. moo.
 
  • #1,034
Exactly my point. We might be focusing on other things.
While we're speaking of 'other things'..... does anyone here remember seeing the last email PK received from AG? And if so, where did it come from? TY
 
  • #1,035
Yes, agreed.. but in his case, I interpreted it to simply mean that he 'raised the door' by punching in the code, rather than by manually raising it by hand. moo.

Oh, but he was so particular and specific in other statements. This choice of words was intentional and well thought out.
 
  • #1,036
To a religious person, would the Christmas bread Weihnachtsstollen be seen as a kind of Christmas communion: bread as the body of Christ, and wine as the blood of Christ? Stollen started out as a rather bland bread, not unlike communion bread.

Stollen - Wikipedia

Also, part of the ceremony in Dresden involves a special oversized knife, the Grand Dresden Stollen Knife.

Fin.
 
  • #1,037
That is something else I had meant to ask about. Does anyone here remember any mention of AG drinking any alcohol at all? Wine? I don't recall ever seeing mention of it, so it got me to wondering.
 
  • #1,038
  • #1,039
Never heard of AG drinking. Wine or other.
 
  • #1,040
Interesting.
 
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