Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[andreww]

How do you know the perp could reach their wrists to remove the bindings after they were hanged on the railing? I believe that would involve being able to access their backs which would mean from the pool side.

I see you've bought into the story of 'cousin, will you hire a murderer for me, oh no, second thoughts I've changed my mind.' Talk about heads in the sand. How come KW didn't level these accusations against Barry during the lawsuit?

LOL, you are right. Maybe the murderer was a geriatric as well and couldn't reach the ties.

And yes I believe Kerry. He's given me no reason to not believe him. So much in life is simply perception. Kerry in a blue collar guy. He's had substance abuse problems in the past. He was involved in a lawsuit with Barry. Of course the press were going to vilify him, after all there are hundreds of rich blue bloods that'll tell you Barry and Honey were peachy, but at the end of the day you find out they were in business together. Kerry Winter has nothing to gain from this, just like he really had nothing to gain by suing a man with an unlimited legal budget. He can never win and he knows it. What is important to him is that people see Barry for what he actually was.

 

[JDG]

*

 

[MistyWaters]

Geez, why do the simplest ideas need to be completely spelled out? IF the had wrist bindings on, why in gods name would they take them off until they were both dead hanging from the railing? So no need to bind their arms with jackets after they are already dead is there?

To your second point, because KERRY KNEW BARRY HATED HER GUTS! Kerry is the only person on here that doesn't have his head in the sand because they've bought in to the idea that these too people were happy and in love. This is Canada. You are extremely unlikely to get murdered here, unless you are running with gangs or doing drugs. If you don't fit that category and still get murdered you can bet your that your spouse, or significant other did it.

It’s interesting how people view things differently. Because I think the preposterous story by Kerry loudly speaks negatively to his own character, by him proclaiming he’d have been agreeable to facilitating a murder of an nnocent person. In attempting to throw Barry under the bus, Kerry might not have realized he’d already placed himself underneath.

“....Winter, a recovering drug addict who has been clean and sober for six years admitted, 'I was messed up and I knew some messed up people at the time. I said, ''Barry you're talking about killing the mother of your children.''

'He said, ''I know what I'm talking about. I want you to find somebody to kill my wife."'

Winter reached out to a local 'quasi gangster' he knew. Winter said: 'I remember going back to Barry and I said, ''If we push this button there's no turning back.''....

......But, he admitted, 'There was part of me that didn't like her either. She was rude to me. I was not okay in my life at that time and I was organizing this thing for this billionaire and we'd share this dark secret. It would bind us together forever.'...”
Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online

 

[andreww]

It’s interesting how people view things differently. Because I think the preposterous story by Kerry loudly speaks negatively to his own character, by him proclaiming he’d have been agreeable to facilitating a murder of an nnocent person. In attempting to throw Barry under the bus, Kerry might not have realized he’d already placed himself underneath.

“....Winter, a recovering drug addict who has been clean and sober for six years admitted, 'I was messed up and I knew some messed up people at the time. I said, ''Barry you're talking about killing the mother of your children.''

'He said, ''I know what I'm talking about. I want you to find somebody to kill my wife."'

Winter reached out to a local 'quasi gangster' he knew. Winter said: 'I remember going back to Barry and I said, ''If we push this button there's no turning back.''....

......But, he admitted, 'There was part of me that didn't like her either. She was rude to me. I was not okay in my life at that time and I was organizing this thing for this billionaire and we'd share this dark secret. It would bind us together forever.'...”
Canadian tycoon Barry Sherman 'killed wife then himself' | Daily Mail Online

Kerry wouldn't have really had much choice in the matter. Barry could have called those loans at any time or simply cut him off altogether. I believe he's said as much.

 

[Tortoise]

Kerry wouldn't have really had much choice in the matter. Barry could have called those loans at any time or simply cut him off altogether. I believe he's said as much.

But he took him to court and risked/faced the loans being called in. It's not making sense.

 

[deugirtni]

But he took him to court and risked/faced the loans being called in. It's not making sense.

Especially for a person who supposedly knew he had no chance of winning. I think he made a plea to the courts that BS was only doing that to be spiteful because KW was suing him. If he'd said 'no' to the 'hit' request, and the loans got called in, I would think it'd be more powerful to then say, well, he wanted me to hire a hitman to take out his wife.

 

[JDG]

LOL, you are right. Maybe the murderer was a geriatric as well and couldn't reach the ties.

And yes I believe Kerry. He's given me no reason to not believe him. So much in life is simply perception. Kerry in a blue collar guy. He's had substance abuse problems in the past. He was involved in a lawsuit with Barry. Of course the press were going to vilify him, after all there are hundreds of rich blue bloods that'll tell you Barry and Honey were peachy, but at the end of the day you find out they were in business together. Kerry Winter has nothing to gain from this, just like he really had nothing to gain by suing a man with an unlimited legal budget. He can never win and he knows it. What is important to him is that people see Barry for what he actually was.

"Kerry is a blue collar guy". Really?? With millions of dollars handed to him over the years, houses, cottages and cars plus start up money for businesses??

Being given $20,000 per month from BS.

That's not the definition of a blue collar guy.

 

[William_60]

The case is puzzling when looked at from either of the M-S or M-M scenarios.

It's not unbelievable that one spouse killed another, then took themselves out.

It's not unbelievable that M-S would be upsetting to a family and moreso than M-M.

From Kevin Donovan's May 8, Toronto Star article:

"In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks."

This summation can only equate to double homicide.

In publicly flipping from M-S to M-M, TPS was going to look bad, and has.

What would motivate them to trade in their reputation to supposedly protect Barry's, or simply appease next-of-kin?

With the Sherman's passing the future of Apotex was thrown into uncertainty but almost certainly a legacy of giving was effectively over.

Looking forward, public officials had little to lose sticking to M-S if that's what they privately believed, transpired.

A year is a long time. But so is seven months, and it's been that long since the Staikos murder in Yorkville.

Any updates of note, there? None that I have seen, and with that brazen shooting, if I live downtown I think I'd appreciate hearing about some semblance of progress on that one.

Getaway vehicle on tape - and more - but we've been told nothing.

 

[deugirtni]

Geez, why do the simplest ideas need to be completely spelled out? IF the had wrist bindings on, why in gods name would they take them off until they were both dead hanging from the railing? So no need to bind their arms with jackets after they are already dead is there?

To your second point, because KERRY KNEW BARRY HATED HER GUTS! Kerry is the only person on here that doesn't have his head in the sand because they've bought in to the idea that these too people were happy and in love. This is Canada. You are extremely unlikely to get murdered here, unless you are running with gangs or doing drugs. If you don't fit that category and still get murdered you can bet your that your spouse, or significant other did it.

I find that marital relationships move in ebbs and flows over time.. they do not stand still, with the exact same feelings and depths of feelings from one month to another and one year after another, perhaps even day-to-day. They change. Drastically sometimes.

Barry may have hated Honey at one or more points in their 40+ years of marriage for a day or a few days or a month or whatever, or he may have just been levying his dry humor, which perhaps KW mistakenly took seriously. But fact is, KW hadn't spoken to the man in over a decade, and had zero knowledge of his inner thoughts and current feelings for his wife. Unfortunately for him, he really can't make the claim that 'Barry hated her guts'.

And you gotta love a person who waits to make such claims until such a time as the person is unable to defend him/herself. If KW's lawsuit purpose was simply to make sure people knew the real Barry, perhaps that claim would have carried more clout during his exhaustive 10+ year lawsuit. It is irrelevant now.

 

[andreww]

The case is puzzling when looked at from either of the M-S or M-M scenarios.

It's not unbelievable that one spouse killed another, then took themselves out.
True

It's not unbelievable that M-S would be upsetting to a family and moreso than M-M.
True

From Kevin Donovan's May 8, Toronto Star article:

"In Chiasson’s examination, it was determined that they were likely not strangled with the belts. Instead, they were strangled with some other type of ligature, and the belts were then put around their necks."
First, if M/S one would expect that Honey was likely strangled with something other than a belt. But lets temper this comment with the fact that Greenspan and company were hired to disprove the M/S theory. I'll put my money on the first autopsy. Although we don't know its findings, we do know TPS seemed to maintain the M/S direction long after the autopsy was completed. If there were definite signs of prior strangling on both bodies, shouldn't TPS have announced it as a double murder immediately? This tells me that Chaisson is likely stating opinion as fact.

This summation can only equate to double homicide.
Again, it came from an extremely biased source.

In publicly flipping from M-S to M-M, TPS was going to look bad, and has.
True, but nowhere near as bad as they would have looked if they had announced it as M/S and sent Greenspans team in to full spin mode. Leaking Chaisson's report was a salvo to TPS. Don't f_ck with us. Lets not forget that TPS was already reeling from their work on the Babcock, Millard and MacArthur cases. They did not want a media battle with a billionaires family.

What would motivate them to trade in their reputation to supposedly protect Barry's, or simply appease next-of-kin?
Well, for Susan Gomes a promotion to being the head of the TPS command centre is a good start. Remember, TPS holds all the cards here. They have all the evidence and they never have to release it so long as the case is open.

With the Sherman's passing the future of Apotex was thrown into uncertainty but almost certainly a legacy of giving was effectively over.
Not true. The Sherman family recently made several huge donations. And lets be honest, giving equals tax advantages. Not exactly giving when it saves you money over the long run.

Looking forward, public officials had little to lose sticking to M-S if that's what they privately believed, transpired.
Yes they did. Especially Chief Saunders who has been under a lot of scrutiny lately.

A year is a long time. But so is seven months, and it's been more than that since the Staikos murder in Yorkville.
True, but when you have one officer working this high profile case... well lets just say it's not a priority. Can we at least agree on that?

 

[andreww]

"Kerry is a blue collar guy". Really?? With millions of dollars handed to him over the years, houses, cottages and cars plus start up money for businesses??

Being given $20,000 per month from BS.

That's not the definition of a blue collar guy.

If you think Kerry is in the same position he was over a decade ago, you are mistaken.

 

[Tortoise]

Kerry Winter has nothing to gain from this, just like he really had nothing to gain by suing a man with an unlimited legal budget. He can never win and he knows it. What is important to him is that people see Barry for what he actually was.

I absolutely disagree. He said he was a suspect.

 

[andreww]

I absolutely disagree. He said he was a suspect.

He's a suspect until he is eliminated as one, which I'm pretty sure has already happened. But then again, if TPS believes this is a murder suicide, which I believe they do, nobody is a suspect. I cite the fact that TPS failed to collect fingerprints and DNA samples from people that had been in the house that very day. I don't care how you or anyone else tries to spin that, they obviously aren't looking for anybody.

 

[andreww]

I find that marital relationships move in ebbs and flows over time.. they do not stand still, with the exact same feelings and depths of feelings from one month to another and one year after another, perhaps even day-to-day. They change. Drastically sometimes.

Barry may have hated Honey at one or more points in their 40+ years of marriage for a day or a few days or a month or whatever, or he may have just been levying his dry humor, which perhaps KW mistakenly took seriously. But fact is, KW hadn't spoken to the man in over a decade, and had zero knowledge of his inner thoughts and current feelings for his wife. Unfortunately for him, he really can't make the claim that 'Barry hated her guts'.

And you gotta love a person who waits to make such claims until such a time as the person is unable to defend him/herself. If KW's lawsuit purpose was simply to make sure people knew the real Barry, perhaps that claim would have carried more clout during his exhaustive 10+ year lawsuit. It is irrelevant now.

Lol, If Kerry had said anything he would have been sued. Barry was a bully. His massive wealth allowed him to make life miserable for whoever he chose by using the courts. I read a piece about him yesterday and a quote from a colleague stated that Barry would spend $3 million dollars to get out of paying someone $150,000. He's not the kind of guy you want to piss off.

 

[William_60]

I read a piece about him yesterday and a quote from a colleague stated that Barry would spend $3 million dollars to get out of paying someone $150,000. He's not the kind of guy you want to piss off.

Link?

 

[sceawian]

Kerry in a blue collar guy...<snipped> Of course the press were going to vilify him

I think you're off-base in saying that he was 'vilified' because he was blue-collar and had substance abuse issues. In Kerry's own words (source):

'I mean, I had opportunity, I had motive. I can see why the police might say this guy is also a ' nut. Like, I would talk about killing Barry and it was very graphic. The way I was gonna do it wouldna been belts, it was gonna be [mimes diagonal knife cut] in the Apotex parking lot. That was my vision, always, that he'd come out of the building in Apotex and I'd be hiding behind a car, and I'd just 'krrrrrghk' [mimes throat cutting] decapitate him. I wanted to roll his head down the parking lot and I'd just sit there waiting for the police.'

BBM.

I think it's pretty clear from his numerous public statements that he has been his own worst enemy in how he has been viewed by the press and public during this investigation. Whether it's because of his mental health issues, or otherwise. I'm glad he was appointed a litigation guardian, and I think it's sensible he doesn't often post here anymore.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Do you think people at 70 are already dead and incapacitated and unable to scratch and get perp's skin under their nails, maybe throw a punch or whatever? Seventy year olds aren't comatose vegetables.

I didn't suffer cancer in the near past and I don't have Arthritis, BUT one wrong move would perhaps made me unable to defend myself - add the fear and fright in the face of a weapon. I'm not only comatose vegetables - though a chance I wouldn't have, I think. Plus my nails are too short for skin evidence. Think also of an offensive from behind -that's it, IMO. Btw: fitness training is different to self-defense training, it wouldn't have helped Honey, to be "fit" only, IMO.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Link?

I could confirm, haha. Read it too. (Barry would spend $3 million dollars to get out of paying someone $150,000.)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If you think Kerry is in the same position he was over a decade ago, you are mistaken.

How long have you known him in order to make that statement?

 

[Tortoise]

He's a suspect until he is eliminated as one, which I'm pretty sure has already happened. But then again, if TPS believes this is a murder suicide, which I believe they do, nobody is a suspect. I cite the fact that TPS failed to collect fingerprints and DNA samples from people that had been in the house that very day. I don't care how you or anyone else tries to spin that, they obviously aren't looking for anybody.

I can't speak to any perceived deficiencies in the police investigation.

We are discussing this as double murder based on the TPS public announcement, not based on your interpretation of the investigation. It's a diversion to say there are no suspects - the question is whether he gains from promoting murder/suicide during a murder investigation.