Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[William_60]

It's no coincidence that FDA's failing brewery ended up in Barry's hands. When a business is failing it will usually be snapped up by a competitor at fraction of its value. Barry was likely to never see a penny from FDA, so he just took the company and tried to make it work.

... or the enterprise sinks into insolvency and everyone loses.

Like I said, just like Empire Labs.

 

[William_60]

random questions.
What are the chances someone stole Honey's will, made "adjustments" to it, then returned it to a hiding place to eventually be located?

Would the culprit/s actually plan a murder to take place at a time when it would be convenient ( holidays) for them to also attend the funeral?

Doctoring one copy of the will would be futile with the existence of the second copy held by a lawyer.

--If she had a will. She might not have, as unlikely as it seems.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Think what you please. I know for a fact that some people here believed I was Kerry Winter four a period of time. You were wrong then and you are wrong now.

Bottom line, If Kerry was on here saying that this was definitely a double murder, your opinion of him would be completely different. You don't like his viewpoint, so you don't like him. I get it.

You are mirroring each other’s words, so I can see where the confusion may have been.

I’m interested in KW’s motives and if he was involved in the murders.

And why, by his own admission here, that he’s still haunting Sherman landmarks.

ETA: cut out personalized comments.

 

[JDG]

Andreww,

I think most of us here, are able to distinguish between someones pov and if they 'like' the person or not.

Those are two separate things, we don't always agree within our own families but we still love those with differing views.

Please don't make it all so simplistic, we're not in kindergarten.

Personally, I don't know KW and neither like nor dislike him.

But I am interested in what he has to post. He has not been banned by WS.

 

[MistyWaters]

random questions.
What are the chances someone stole Honey's will, made "adjustments" to it, then returned it to a hiding place to eventually be located?

Would the culprit/s actually plan a murder to take place at a time when it would be convenient ( holidays) for them to also attend the funeral?

Considering the Shermans were surrounded by lawyers and their estate was substantial, I’d be very surprised if each of them prepared only a handwritten will witnesses by a non-beneficiary that was hid somewhere in their home. At their age, I’m certain they were aware of other situations later involving years of litigation by beneficiaries attempting to resolve estates because intentions were ambiguous. That is the #1 reason people with a sizeable amount of assets obtain legal services when drafting a Will. The law office preparing the will often retains the documents, the executors informed of whom to contact by the parties, in the event of their deaths.

As the Shermans had been married for over 40 years, their wealth was created during that marriage. Estate planning always takes into account what would occur if both parties died suddenly by an accidental death, plane crash, car accident, house fire, etc. That Barry’s will would indicate one intention and Honey’s something entirely different would be a huge red flag imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Andreww,

I think most of us here, are able to distinguish between someones pov and if they 'like' the person or not.

Those are two separate things, we don't always agree within our own families but we still love those with differing views.

Please don't make it all so simplistic, we're not in kindergarten.

Personally, I don't know KW and neither like nor dislike him.

But I am interested in what he has to post. He has not been banned by WS.

That’s true. I deleted my previous post, it personalized.

 

[MistyWaters]

Of course it was investigated. The police were on scene to investigate and the coroner examined the body as well. They just made the wrong decision. You honestly think the decision to rule that a suicide was based on Dellen Millard's statement alone? If you do, then it is obvious to me that police can be swayed in to the wrong decision based on what the family says, and we all know how the Sherman family felt about this case.

Yes it appears WM’s death was initially deemed a suicide because there were no suspicious indicators as well as the Homicide Team was not actively involved. And unfortunately nobody was close enough to WM to ask that his sudden death be investigated knowing suicide was highly improbable along with reasons why DM had strong motive. Tragically, had Dellen became a suspect it could’ve saved the life of TB.

From that case, along with all the other past undetected homicides in Ontario that have recently come to light, surely its been learned a death scene is not always what it appears at first glance? The family had every right to publicly demand a thorough and careful investigation take place.

 

[andreww]

But I am interested in what he has to post. He has not been banned by WS.

For two weeks he has.

 

[JDG]

For two weeks he has.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[andreww]

I did, and in fact, have already posted that Barry both gave knowing there would be a benefit to him, his family, or his business, and also gave without promise or guarantee of return.

How do you know he also gave without strings attached? There is always a reason, whether you believe it or not. Some of it might be political, some of it may be advantageous tax wise. I wouldn't doubt that the reason Barry loaned money to KW and FDA was that having failing enterprises helped his tax situation over the long run. But that's just speculation.

 

[dotr]

If it was an individual acting on his or her own in the murders, it would seem that they would be caught if they went after any other family members, imo.
Does this mean that they suspect the killers are part of a powerful crime group of one kind or another if they are considered to have the ability to go after anyone, anywhere and at any time?
Could the culprit be a serial killer if 2 people are already found dead might there be more, or is this crime the perp/s first rodeo?
speculation, imo.
Judge seals estate files of murder victims Barry and Honey Sherman to protect heirs
'The risk of harm is foreseeable and the foreseeable harm is grave,' said Ontario Superior Court Judge Sean Dunphy in a highly unusual sealing order"
“The willingness of the perpetrator(s) of the crimes to resort to extreme violence to pursue whatever motive existed has been amply demonstrated."

 

[William_60]

How do you know he also gave without strings attached? There is always a reason, whether you believe it or not. Some of it might be political, some of it may be advantageous tax wise. I wouldn't doubt that the reason Barry loaned money to KW and FDA was that having failing enterprises helped his tax situation over the long run. But that's just speculation.

Read the Bloomberg Businessweek article.

Sherman gave funds to Apotex employees in financial trouble. No strings mentioned, and while that doesn't mean there were no strings, who am I to just assume there were?

There's always a reason, yes. We can agree on that.

Much of the millions given to the children, to FD, and probably others who sought him out to fund various projects, were never going to be returned.

That's obvious.

I think it's reasonable to assume if the boys don't sue, their various loans would not have been called in.

The decision to sue was a gross, emotionally-charged error.

Nothing one would deem "good" came out of it, for either side. Losing the suit was the only meaningful or lasting "bad" thing to arise out of it.

It was clearly a compound mistake.

Maybe the boys accepted funding with intent to sue later. I find it more than a little odd that none of them had a handle on family history until 1999.

Were they in a bubble for 30-plus years?

Anyway, no one forced them into accepting terms they would later find to be reprehensible.

 

[MistyWaters]

Read the Bloomberg Businessweek article.

Sherman gave funds to Apotex employees in financial trouble. No strings mentioned, and while that doesn't mean there were no strings, who am I to just assume there were?

There's always a reason, yes. We can agree on that.

Much of the millions given to the children, to FD, and probably others who sought him out to fund various projects, were never going to be returned.

That's obvious.

I think it's reasonable to assume if the boys don't sue, their various loans would not have been called in.

The decision to sue was a gross, emotionally-charged error.

Nothing one would deem "good" came out of it, for either side. Losing the suit was the only meaningful or lasting "bad" thing to arise out of it.

It was clearly a compound mistake.

There’s never been mention of Barry calling his cousins loans in, other than Kerry’s. According to this reprinted 2008 article, money was lent to 3 of the 4. Dana died in the 90s by drug o/d, Jeff reportedly had already dropped out of the lawsuit at some point over the years and his comments after the Shermans deaths were complimentary, quite the opposite to KW (I’ll find the quote). Therefore it appears only KWs loans were called.

“For whatever reasons, Barry bankrolled three of the Winter children in their ventures. Dana started a jewellery business; Jeff moved from a travel company into custom CDs; Kerry launched a construction company. Barry bought them homes and cottages, paid Visa bills and gave out allowances, lending millions on dubious security. Behind his back, Dana called him “Bank Sherman.”....”
How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

ETA quote -
“Jeffrey Barkin told the Star recently that he has no interest in the ongoing dispute. “(Barry and Honey) did so much for the community, and I do not wish to diminish this,” he said.”
Barry Sherman’s cousin to undergo ‘disability’ assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues | The Star

 

[William_60]

There’s never been mention of Barry calling his cousins loans in, other than Kerry’s. According to this reprinted 2008 article, money was lent to 3 of the 4. Dana died in the 90s by drug o/d, Jeff reportedly had already dropped out of the lawsuit at some point over the years and his comments after the Shermans deaths were complimentary, quite the opposite to KW (I’ll find the quote). Therefore it appears only KWs loans were called.

“For whatever reasons, Barry bankrolled three of the Winter children in their ventures. Dana started a jewellery business; Jeff moved from a travel company into custom CDs; Kerry launched a construction company. Barry bought them homes and cottages, paid Visa bills and gave out allowances, lending millions on dubious security. Behind his back, Dana called him “Bank Sherman.”....”
How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

ETA quote -
“Jeffrey Barkin told the Star recently that he has no interest in the ongoing dispute. “(Barry and Honey) did so much for the community, and I do not wish to diminish this,” he said.”
Barry Sherman’s cousin to undergo ‘disability’ assessment as billion-dollar appeal continues | The Star

One element to all of the "lending" Barry Sherman did may well be related to how he launched his own business, and that is, through loans.

He was never handed anything, save for the fellowship at MIT, I suppose, but even that was of course, earned through achieving high grades.

 

[MistyWaters]

One element to all of the "lending" Barry Sherman did may well be related to how he launched his own business, and that is, through loans.

He was never handed anything, save for the fellowship at MIT, I suppose, but even that was of course, earned through achieving high grades.

I think so too. It’s extremely difficult to launch ones own business without any financial support and for anyone lucky enough to have a relative who’s agreeable to lending money, it’s often the only option. I don’t understand how it could be construed that Barry nefariously lent money to make anyone dependant on him. Totally backward way of thinking imo, when the helper gets portrayed as the villain out to victimize the borrower.

Also from 2007 -

“Mr. Sherman insisted all along that he had done his best for his cousins. "I help all kinds of people because I know I'm very successful and I feel an obligation to help friends, family, and strangers, too," he told The Globe in 2007. "Who, even amongst wealthy people, would spend countless millions of dollars trying to help cousins make a living? For nothing in return? I've done all I can."....”
Barry Sherman: A fierce fighter who helped revolutionize Canada's drug industry

 

[William_60]

I think so too. It’s extremely difficult to launch ones own business without any financial support and for anyone lucky enough to have a relative who’s agreeable to lending money, it’s often the only option. I don’t understand how it could be construed that Barry nefariously lent money to make anyone dependant on him. Totally backward way of thinking imo, when the helper gets portrayed as the villain out to victimize the borrower.

Also from 2007 -

“Mr. Sherman insisted all along that he had done his best for his cousins. "I help all kinds of people because I know I'm very successful and I feel an obligation to help friends, family, and strangers, too," he told The Globe in 2007. "Who, even amongst wealthy people, would spend countless millions of dollars trying to help cousins make a living? For nothing in return? I've done all I can."....”
Barry Sherman: A fierce fighter who helped revolutionize Canada's drug industry

My Dad didn't believe anything should be given that wasn't earned.

As a kid, I can't say I liked it, but I understood the concept and the little voice inside me said there was no logical argument against it, so you best roll with it and keep your brows unfolded.

Having had to work incredibly hard to amass any savings himself, he feared just giving money would soften my survival muscle, dim my view of the real world.

When he stepped in with 10Gs of assistance when I graduated from college, I was pleasantly stunned.

Barry likely attached terms so that the funds intended purpose would be taken seriously; that each lad would dig in and pursue their respective visions with vigor, like he himself had done.

This seems like a reasonable assumption to me.

 

[ldlager]

I wouldn't doubt that the brewery takeover was more of a bailout for FDA who was likely in over his head.

He was in over his head with Barry's money............

 

[ldlager]

Exactly, no provocation because Steelback was just another failing business that needed saving; much like Empire Labs.

From Wiki:

Citing poor revenue, high marketing costs and the weak Canadian dollar, both the brewery and D'Angelo Brands filed for protection from creditors. Court documents show that Barry Sherman's Wasanda Enterprises Inc. was owed $101,619,464.20.[7][8]

On November 1, 2007, D'Angelo sold his majority stake in Steelback Brewery to Jonathon Sherman (son of Barry). D'Angelo remained as chairman of the company with a minority interest.[9][10] Later in the month, the insolvent company was granted court protection from its creditors.[11]

My point exactly. Just another money losing FD business. No provocation required for BS to have perhaps called the FD loan(s)

 

[William_60]

My point exactly. Just another money losing FD business. No provocation required for BS to have perhaps called the FD loan(s)

The provocation was a failing business, not a knife in the back ala the boys.

And I see no demand for $100 M then, or since.

Proferring maybes is of zero value, hey maybe, maybe! the boys will still pay the estate back in full.

Never say never, I guess.

 

[MistyWaters]

My point exactly. Just another money losing FD business. No provocation required for BS to have perhaps called the FD loan(s)

This is interesting background including how Barry came to be involved with D’Angelo’s business. It seems there was no loan to be called as Sherman’s company Wasanda Enterprises instead became part owner of D’Angelo Brands.

“On offer was a state-of-the-art fruit concentrating facility and a microbrewery with the capacity to produce 100,000 hectolitres of beer a year. The vendor was Barry Sherman, founder and CEO of generic drug giant Apotex Inc., whose net worth has been estimated at $3.2 billion. Sherman is reluctant to discuss how he came to control the facility, saying only, "It didn't turn out to be viable, and we were going to liquidate it. So [D'Angelo]came along and I sold it to him at a price above what we would have got on liquidation, but for no cash." Instead, Sherman took a stake in D'Angelo Brands...”
I am the product, the product is me