Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[deugirtni]

Could your friend be mixing up the male Asian realtor who was representing the buyers that day?

 

[JDG]

It was a woman realtor who was accompanying the Asian realtor and his prospects.

 

[ldlager]

It was a woman realtor who was accompanying the Asian realtor and his prospects.

I know you think that, we have been over this before......lol, we need some news on this case to be able to write about something new.....
Anyways in either case the agent didn’t call 911!!

 

[WINDSOR]

Three things that continue to confuse me:
I’m no expert, but if the bodies had been hanging in that moist damp pool area for say 36 hours wouldn’t there be a fairly pronounced smell in the house, or certainly in the basement at least? Not to get too graphic or gross, but why didn’t anyone like the cleaners or the realtor notice the smell?

Something else has been bothering me- when a realtor does a showing of a house what’s the first thing they consistently do? They run around the house turning on all the lights, opening blinds, etc. to make the place seem brighter. If they don’t have time before the showing they run ahead of the clients and do this. So why didn’t the Sherman’s realtor do this, and discover the bodies first?

Finally, I STILL don’t understand why it took 45 mins to call 911 after the bodies were discovered, and I don’t understand why the realtor called Gottlieb (their boss ) in Florida instead of immediately calling 911. And I don’t understand why Gottlieb made other calls before 911 was eventually called.

* In a previous career as a realtor, if it was a daytime showing I never ran around the house turning lights unless absolutely necessary. Natural light is a feature.
* I do believe the realtor discovered the Sherman's bodies first, and did not show the pool room to his clients.
* Time delay was due to, first escorting clients out of the home, taking time for the realtor to compose himself, and to plan what to do. He likely called Gottlieb for guidance, then finally called 911. Once you have ascertained the victims are dead, the sense of urgency to call 911 evaporates. Discovering dead bodies is a traumatic experience for most people, and both their physical and emotional reactions can be severe.

 

[MistyWaters]

Oops I was in the middle of writing a new post when my browser decided to crash and update.. if anyone knows how to prevent this from happening without my permission, please lend your thoughts?
--
I want to know why the realty lawn sign said the home was listed with Judi Gottlieb of Forest Hill Real Estate, while the MLS listing, open house ad, facebook postings, etc., were listed with Elise Stern with Harvey Kalles Real Estate. Usually if there is a property colisted, it will name both agents/brokerages on the MLS listing, and there might be two signs. Gottlieb was in Florida, so I can get that if she was planning on being there for an extended time, she might wish to co-list with another sales rep, however one might imagine that it might be one within her own brokerage, and in any case, it might be shown as co-listed with TREB on the MLS listing. In MSM the agent representing the Shermans on site the day the bodies were found, was said to have been Gottlieb's 'assistant'.

"The couple was last seen alive on the evening of Wednesday, Dec. 13, 2017. Their bodies were discovered the following Friday morning by Sherman family real estate agent Elise Stern, who was showing prospective buyers and their agent the home on Old Colony Rd."
www.thestar.com/news/canada/2018/10/31/toronto-police-obtain-nine-new-search-warrants-in-sherman-murder-investigation.html

Billionaire Couple Found Dead in Toronto Mansion
View attachment 161510

View attachment 161511

If Stern was at the home during the discovery, maybe it was a co-listing but she removed her sign as she left? If so, the reporter’s photo of only one sign would’ve been taken much later, only after learning of the police presence.

On Stern’s public FB page she also has an Open House for the home advertised on Nov 28/17 from 11 - 12:3pm. Oddly the time of the FB post was the same day but after, @ 2:06pm.

 

[deugirtni]

It was a woman realtor who was accompanying the Asian realtor and his prospects.

How do we know this for sure?

 

[dotr]

He said, she said...rbbm.
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank
"The Toronto real estate agent who found the bodies of billionaire drug czar Barry Sherman and his wife Honey thought the scene was a Halloween hangover."
“This is a joke, something left over from Halloween,” the agent told CBC News, asking the network not to identify him.
It wasn’t until a “couple of days later” that he learned the high-fliers were dead. He remains frightened since the professional killers have not been caught."

Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers $10-million reward for information on murder of billionaire couple
"Last December, when the Shermans' agent came upon the bodies in the pool room, she froze, then turned and hurried the clients and the other agent back upstairs. The Shermans' agent asked a woman who was in the house watering orchids to go downstairs and confirm what she had seen. She did. The agent then alerted a family member who was in Florida, and, after some discussion, police were called to the scene.

Greenspan said the police, when they arrived, completely misinterpreted the crime scene. "They failed to recognize the suspicious and staged manner in which their bodies were situated." He described how Barry Sherman's "legs were outstretched with one crossed over the other in a passive manner, wearing his undisturbed eyeglasses and his jacket pulled slightly behind his back which would have prevented use of his arms." The Sherman couple had their backs against a low railing that surrounds the pool, with leather belts around their neck and the free end wrapped around "a railing forcing them into an upright position," Greenspan said."

 

[MistyWaters]

* In a previous career as a realtor, if it was a daytime showing I never ran around the house turning lights unless absolutely necessary. Natural light is a feature.
* I do believe the realtor discovered the Sherman's bodies first, and did not show the pool room to his clients.
* Time delay was due to, first escorting clients out of the home, taking time for the realtor to compose himself, and to plan what to do. He likely called Gottlieb for guidance, then finally called 911. Once you have ascertained the victims are dead, the sense of urgency to call 911 evaporates. Discovering dead bodies is a traumatic experience for most people, and both their physical and emotional reactions can be severe.

Given the various media reports describing the discovery, why I lean towards the CBC’s report being the most accurate, it’s the only one that claims their source was a realtor who was directly involved. All others are at least second or third hand vaguely referred sources.

The Globe - Dec 16/17
“A relative, who asked not to be identified, said a real estate agent, preparing for an open house, had discovered the two bodies in the large home's basement Friday morning.”
Billionaire Apotex founder Barry Sherman and wife found dead in Toronto home

The Star - May 8/17
“Information in this story is based on interviews with people with close knowledge of the private investigation into the case, who provided the details on the condition that they not be identified.....She turned and ushered the other agent and the clients back, making an excuse, saying this part of the home was off limits at the moment.”
How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide | The Star

 

[dotr]

Unrelated? Approx 9 minutes away from 50 Old Colony Rd. Neighbours must be getting a little freaked out. imo, speculation.
Man, 33, shot to death in Richmond Hill: police
"York Regional Police say they were called to Barnwood Drive, in the Bayview Avenue and Old Colony Road area, at 9:30 p.m. for several reports of gunshots heard.
They arrived to find a man suffering from gunshot wounds.

He was rushed to a hospital trauma centre where he was pronounced dead.

Police later identified him as Soheil Rafipour."
Officers say one witness spotted several suspects fled the scene in a dark-coloured SUV.

“We’re doing a canvas in this neighbourhood with officers going door to door asking if anyone saw anything or heard anything,” Const. Laura Nicolle said.

Investigators had taped off and were seen photographing a red Chevrolet Corvette coupe parked on the street near the crime scene."

 

[JDG]

Unrelated? Approx 9 minutes away from 50 Old Colony Rd. Neighbours must be getting a little freaked out. imo, speculation.
Man, 33, shot to death in Richmond Hill: police
"York Regional Police say they were called to Barnwood Drive, in the Bayview Avenue and Old Colony Road area, at 9:30 p.m. for several reports of gunshots heard.
They arrived to find a man suffering from gunshot wounds.

He was rushed to a hospital trauma centre where he was pronounced dead.

Police later identified him as Soheil Rafipour."
Officers say one witness spotted several suspects fled the scene in a dark-coloured SUV.

“We’re doing a canvas in this neighbourhood with officers going door to door asking if anyone saw anything or heard anything,” Const. Laura Nicolle said.

Investigators had taped off and were seen photographing a red Chevrolet Corvette coupe parked on the street near the crime scene."

Ironies of all ironies, there is an Old Colony Road, near Bayview Ave, in RICHMOND HILL.

It runs from Yonge to Bayview.

Its not the same Old Colony Road as the Shermans street. Much further north on Bayview.

The Shermans lived in the City of Toronto, the old North York. South of the highway 401.

 

[JDG]

How do we know this for sure?

A friend knows her and referred to her as 'she'. Good enough for moi.

Didn't mean to sound 'snippy' but don't know how to re-phrase it.

 

[ldlager]

He said, she said...rbbm.
Agent who found Shermans dead thought bodies were Halloween prank
"The Toronto real estate agent who found the bodies of billionaire drug czar Barry Sherman and his wife Honey thought the scene was a Halloween hangover."
“This is a joke, something left over from Halloween,” the agent told CBC News, asking the network not to identify him.
It wasn’t until a “couple of days later” that he learned the high-fliers were dead. He remains frightened since the professional killers have not been caught."

Family of Barry and Honey Sherman offers $10-million reward for information on murder of billionaire couple
"Last December, when the Shermans' agent came upon the bodies in the pool room, she froze, then turned and hurried the clients and the other agent back upstairs. The Shermans' agent asked a woman who was in the house watering orchids to go downstairs and confirm what she had seen. She did. The agent then alerted a family member who was in Florida, and, after some discussion, police were called to the scene.

Greenspan said the police, when they arrived, completely misinterpreted the crime scene. "They failed to recognize the suspicious and staged manner in which their bodies were situated." He described how Barry Sherman's "legs were outstretched with one crossed over the other in a passive manner, wearing his undisturbed eyeglasses and his jacket pulled slightly behind his back which would have prevented use of his arms." The Sherman couple had their backs against a low railing that surrounds the pool, with leather belts around their neck and the free end wrapped around "a railing forcing them into an upright position," Greenspan said."

Underlined by me. To my knowledge, the Sherman’s family members referenced in msm who were trying to get info were in California on vacation, not Florida. Should we infer from this underlined sentence that Gottlieb was in fact a family member of the agent?

 

[ldlager]

* In a previous career as a realtor, if it was a daytime showing I never ran around the house turning lights unless absolutely necessary. Natural light is a feature.
* I do believe the realtor discovered the Sherman's bodies first, and did not show the pool room to his clients.
* Time delay was due to, first escorting clients out of the home, taking time for the realtor to compose himself, and to plan what to do. He likely called Gottlieb for guidance, then finally called 911. Once you have ascertained the victims are dead, the sense of urgency to call 911 evaporates. Discovering dead bodies is a traumatic experience for most people, and both their physical and emotional reactions can be severe.[/QUOTE

Deleted

 

[MistyWaters]

Underlined by me. To my knowledge, the Sherman’s family members referenced in msm who were trying to get info were in California on vacation, not Florida. Should we infer from this underlined sentence that Gottlieb was in fact a family member of the agent?

JMO that “family member” refers to a family member of one the Shermans, perhaps a sibling of either of them. A “family member” doesn’t only include their children.

 

[JDG]

*

 

[ldlager]

JMO that “family member” refers to a family member of one the Shermans, perhaps a sibling of either of them. A “family member” doesn’t only include their children.

I know, I recall Barry,s or honeys sister was in California on vacation. I find it curious that Gottlieb’s assistant would have the number of Barry or honeys relatives in Florida at his/her fingertips. My bet is that the realtor was a relative of Gottlieb, and called her in florida as soon as the bodies were discovered. After all, it has been reported that the realtor did call Gottlieb in Florida.

 

[MistyWaters]

I know, I recall Barry,s or honeys sister was in California on vacation. I find it curious that Gottlieb’s assistant would have the number of Barry or honeys relatives in Florida at his/her fingertips. My bet is that the realtor was a relative of Gottlieb, and called her in florida as soon as the bodies were discovered. After all, it has been reported that the realtor did call Gottlieb in Florida.

When this story broke, the photo of the sign with Gottleib’s name was widely circulated, in the eyes of the media, she became THE realtor. But
- Stern’s listing was still live
- a TL real estate blurb featuring the property was published the day after the discovery, realor Stern.
- Stern’s FB mentioned the open house held Nov 28.

Unless we learn otherwise, it appears the two co-listed the property.

So it’s also possible the original source referred to Stern as the realtor who was “assisting” Gottleib, who went to the house that day. Along the way the statement became shortened to “Gottlieb’s assisant”. Both realtors appeared to have Jewish connections and for little we know, one or the other might’ve been recommended by the same Sherman “family member” who was contacted, considering the absence of any factual details. There’s also no indication she limited her phonecalls to only one.

 

[deugirtni]

This whole confusion.... seems to sort out some things, at least for me.

I've always thought/suspected that the realtor (I am assuming it was Elise and that she was somehow working with Gottlieb on the listing, possibly because both women were friends of H's), called Gottlieb (in FL), when she discovered the bodies... to talk about.. something like, 'you won't BELIEVE this.. blah blah, what should we do.. before calling police, because it'll turn into a circus at that point'.. 'we should tell the family first, so they don't have to hear it from police', etc etc..

So IF that happened... it is VERY possible that, of course, the realtor and/or family member would want all 4 of the kids to be notified before letting the circus start.. what would be worse than hearing this news through either police or media?

THAT exercise would very easily explain that 45 minute time delay in contacting police, which we've all been curious about.

Also.. IF (presumably) Elise spoke directly with one or more of the kids to explain all she had come across/seen with her own eyes, then maybe from THAT conversation, is where the family was getting their immediate validation that this was an obvious hit, as opposed to their dad going ballistic, which they already knew he wouldn't have done.

I believe JS said at some point (the memorial service?) that the kids had waited ... how long??? to receive 'official' notice from police.. which.. not sure if it even came?? If it did, it was hours and hours later..

And THEN .. what do they hear on the news?? Practically one of the first public announcements from police that they hear, is police, alluding to a murder/suicide... the opposite of what was described to them by the person who saw the bodies, ON the news, TO the world.. and no wonder they were pissed.. IF they had spoken to the realtor who found them, and found out how the bodies were positioned, and the amount of blood, and whatever other information,.. they had inside info (which we as the public still don't know all the details of, as of yet), and they knew very well it wasn't a murder/suicide, etc.. no wonder they got legal representation SO early.

It had always been said that the realtor on site had called Gottlieb... but I guess I had never followed that through in my mind, to think that of course Gottlieb (and/or Elise) then would have contacted someone in the Sherman family (yes, probably H's sister).. I believe there were connections there.. not blood connections, but friend/acquaintance connections.

 

[human]

And it could be the phone calls took a long time.

“Hello, your parents are dead. Catch you later.” Not!

 

[MistyWaters]

And it could be the phone calls took a long time.

“Hello, your parents are dead. Catch you later.” Not!

Absolutely right, most definitely not.

Often when people are attempting to urgently contact others by phone, tracking down their numbers through mutual acquaintances is also involved and that takes time as well.

Dec 15, the sole publicized comment by Gottlieb:

“The Sherman’s were very dear friends of mine for many, many years and we’re all in shock,” she (Judi Gottlieb) wrote in an email. “More than this, I’m not prepared to talk about.”...”
Police are investigating the ‘suspicious’ deaths of Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman