Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[deugirtni]

I think anyone who had been in the home with a realtor has been looked at.

Unless of course their realtor failed to do this..............

This is from a realtor who got 'caught', but imagine what goes on that never gets 'caught'?

From this link: Recent Enforcement Decisions - RECO Website
Sep 21/18 Nxxxx Lxx Richards
Fined $8,500
Discipline Decision – Summary
"While acting for a buyer, Rxxxxxxx contacted the Listing Brokerage on or about June 17, 2017 to book a property showing. The listing brokerage provided Rxxxxxxx with an appointment and a lock-box code.
Rxxxxxxx forwarded the lock-box code to her buyer client and advised them to visit the property in her absence.
On or about June 24, 2018, Rxxxxxxx facilitated unauthorized access to the property by providing the lock-box code to her buyer client who then attended the property without Rxxxxxxx, contrary to sections 4, 5 and 39 of the Code of Ethics."
--
"AGREED PENALTY
Nxxxx Lxx Rxxxxxxx, the Respondent, be ordered to pay a penalty of $8,500.00 on or before September 18, 2019."

While it's very much frowned upon, not everyone plays by the rules.

 

[dotr]

Interesting link posted by Tortoise on a different thread..
UK - Laureline Garcia-Bertaux, 34, Body found in shallow grave, Kew, 7 March 2019
"Here is a link to study carried out at the Finnish National Bureau of Investigation into strangulation and offender profiling.

It depends on whether the strangulation was by ligature or by hand or arm.

A few points of interest -

Strangulation accounts for 10-20% of all homicidal deaths in various countries

It "may be" due to the positions of the murderer and victim [...] which makes it easy and convenient and prevents victim from crying out


In 59 strangulation cases (focus of study) -

Average victim age was 35.6 years
Average age of offender was 34.11 years

stranger 1% - manual
family member 25% - manual 80% ligature 20%
ex-intimate 27.1% - manual 75% ligature 25%
acquaintance 45.8% - manual 51.9% ligature 48.1%


15% of offenders were psychotic
61% of offenders had a personality disorder
12% of offenders had some other disorder (depression etc)
12% of offenders no mental illness

66% of offenders had alcohol dependence
14% of offenders had drug dependence

At time of murder - 72% of offenders were intoxicated and 10% were under influence of drugs

58% of offenders had criminal history

The report goes into further detail but I don't have the time to paraphrase it all - it's interesting."

http://eknygos.lsmuni.lt/springer/605/73-87.pdf

 

[ldlager]

This is from a realtor who got 'caught', but imagine what goes on that never gets 'caught'?

From this link: Recent Enforcement Decisions - RECO Website
Sep 21/18 Nxxxx Lxx Richards
Fined $8,500
Discipline Decision – Summary
"While acting for a buyer, Rxxxxxxx contacted the Listing Brokerage on or about June 17, 2017 to book a property showing. The listing brokerage provided Rxxxxxxx with an appointment and a lock-box code.
Rxxxxxxx forwarded the lock-box code to her buyer client and advised them to visit the property in her absence.
On or about June 24, 2018, Rxxxxxxx facilitated unauthorized access to the property by providing the lock-box code to her buyer client who then attended the property without Rxxxxxxx, contrary to sections 4, 5 and 39 of the Code of Ethics."
--
"AGREED PENALTY
Nxxxx Lxx Rxxxxxxx, the Respondent, be ordered to pay a penalty of $8,500.00 on or before September 18, 2019."

While it's very much frowned upon, not everyone plays by the rules.

Thanks. I have posted before about the very strange and IMO inexplicable delay by the realtor (in Florida) in notifying LE after the discovery of the bodies. I wonder if she knew that her office had perhaps, allowed unescorted access to the house in the days prior to the murders?

 

[WINDSOR]

I do not believe any agents showing the Sherman house would allow a client go unescorted, unless they knew the client extremely well. So if somebody went to Sherman's house alone, the agent would have known them and could share this info with LE.

I am not sure what the level of sophistication is with lockboxes today, but 30 years ago they were pretty simple, and we all know 'locks only keep honest people out'. A criminal would have no trouble with a lockbox back then.

Since I believe this was a targeted hit, by experts who would tend to avoid contacts with potential witnesses. I am pretty sure the perpetrators did not use real estate agents to gain access. They would not have too as they have other means to gain access to the Sherman home.

 

[Vern]

Interesting tidbit of info that inadvertently came out from a neighbour during an interview … wonder who this unidentified man is ...

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

...
In its reporting on the bid to knock down the house, CTV stumbled upon what could be that very thing—a previously unreported, potentially key piece of evidence. In canvassing the neighbourhood for reaction, a reporter interviewed a woman who chose not to appear on camera or make her name public. She revealed that she handed over surveillance video to police that showed a car sitting in the Shermans’ driveway on Dec. 14, a day before the bodies were found and a day after the couple was last reported seen alive. In it, a man was seen “sometimes sitting in his car for up to 15 minutes, then going inside” the house.

The fluke disclosure is a reminder that the Toronto Police Service has more evidence than the public knows—and also that the police don’t share evidence with the public.
...

 

[human]

Interesting tidbit of info that inadvertently came out from a neighbour during an interview … wonder who this unidentified man is ...

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

Wow!

 

[sceawian]

Interesting tidbit of info that inadvertently came out from a neighbour during an interview … wonder who this unidentified man is ...

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

Interesting. What's the likelihood this was someone checking the house for the realtors coming the next day/ something completely innocuous? Kind of crazy that someone would park in the driveway if they were planning to kill them.

If it was the murderer, it would mean Honey/Barry would be aware of someone 'visiting' the house, so no taking them completely by surprise. Did the suspect then plan a ruse/ an excuse to be there? Was it for a quick get away? Maybe the killer was just intending to confront/threaten them, rather than kill, initially (but then why the apparent preparedness for binding their wrists)?

 

[Tighthead]

Assuming this isn’t some innocent party who was there to meet Honey, and just kept ringing the bell every 15 minutes, this is the most interesting info to leak so far. Maybe the only interesting leak.

 

[WINDSOR]

Interesting tidbit of info that inadvertently came out from a neighbour during an interview … wonder who this unidentified man is ...

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

A new, hidden clue in Barry and Honey Shermans’ vanishing murder case

I believe this is a game changer, if TPS have a video of a car, chances they have a license plate or a partial. The TPS then know who owns the car, and quite possibly who the driver was. Even if it was stolen or rented under false id, they have some real leads. This would fit quite well with the Warrington info that the TPS have suspects whom they are surveilling.

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe this is a game changer, if TPS have a video of a car, chances they have a license plate or a partial. The TPS then know who owns the car, and quite possibly who the driver was. Even if it was stolen or rented under false id, they have some real leads. This would fit quite well with the Warrington info that the TPS have suspects whom they are surveilling.

And if TPS have video from Dec 14th that’s very significant because it indicates a security camera was panned on both the driveway and entrance into the Sherman home. So they also have it the day, evening and nighttime prior - Dec 13th.

Is this news to the killer/s?

 

[ldlager]

I believe this is a game changer, if TPS have a video of a car, chances they have a license plate or a partial. The TPS then know who owns the car, and quite possibly who the driver was. Even if it was stolen or rented under false id, they have some real leads. This would fit quite well with the Warrington info that the TPS have suspects whom they are surveilling.

This story was originally reported over a week ago- I heard it first on CFRB 1010 radio early/mid last week, on the same day that the story about demolishing the house came out. This story about the video was originally promoted by the local media as a major development, because the neighbor said that they had given the video to LE, and that LE hadn't bothered to investigate it- the media was questioning why LE hadn't acted on it. Then sanity prevailed- firstly, how would anyone know whether the police had acted on it or not? Then CFRB reported that the neighbor admitted that in fact the video had been shot a week or two prior to the murders having taken place, NOT the day before they were discovered. Finally, the media accepted that it could be someone as innocent as a realtor waiting for clients, the cleaning people, etc. Given all this doubt and uncertainty , the story was quickly dropped from CFRB's news reports.
I know the article linked above indicates the video was from the day before the bodies were found, but I believe this is inaccurate- the details about the man in a car, getting in and out of the car, etc. are the same as what was reported by CFRB, and subsequently dismissed, so this is likely the same incident.

 

[Tighthead]

That’s a buzzkill.

 

[deugirtni]

I wonder if TPS even bothered to take a statement from this neighbor, or to follow up on whatever was seen in that video? I don't feel like I'm being necessarily mean, it's just that I've read about that kind of thing happening (or rather, not happening) in other cases I've followed. And of course, my confidence level isn't way up there with this police force at this time. jmo.

 

[MistyWaters]

This story was originally reported over a week ago- I heard it first on CFRB 1010 radio early/mid last week, on the same day that the story about demolishing the house came out. This story about the video was originally promoted by the local media as a major development, because the neighbor said that they had given the video to LE, and that LE hadn't bothered to investigate it- the media was questioning why LE hadn't acted on it. Then sanity prevailed- firstly, how would anyone know whether the police had acted on it or not? Then CFRB reported that the neighbor admitted that in fact the video had been shot a week or two prior to the murders having taken place, NOT the day before they were discovered. Finally, the media accepted that it could be someone as innocent as a realtor waiting for clients, the cleaning people, etc. Given all this doubt and uncertainty , the story was quickly dropped from CFRB's news reports.
I know the article linked above indicates the video was from the day before the bodies were found, but I believe this is inaccurate- the details about the man in a car, getting in and out of the car, etc. are the same as what was reported by CFRB, and subsequently dismissed, so this is likely the same incident.

Sometimes leaked stories have a purpose other than what appears on the surface.

That there may have been a security camera directed towards the Sherman driveway and doorway access is information never revealed in the past.

 

[MistyWaters]

I wonder if TPS even bothered to take a statement from this neighbor, or to follow up on whatever was seen in that video? I don't feel like I'm being necessarily mean, it's just that I've read about that kind of thing happening (or rather, not happening) in other cases I've followed. And of course, my confidence level isn't way up there with this police force at this time. jmo.

I think this leak is great news and is only presented as if a anonymous neighbor is complaining.

It was reported several times early on that TPS canvassed the neighbourhood to collect security footage.

By the time of the press conference, they had 2000 hours of it.

Police investigation into Sherman double murder focuses on realtor’s ‘lock box’
“.....and the collection of 2,000 hours of surveillance and security video footage from adjacent homes and nearby businesses....”

 

[Tighthead]

Sometimes leaked stories have a purpose other than what appears on the surface.

That there may have been a security camera directed towards the Sherman driveway and doorway access is information never revealed in the past.

I agree that many leaks are deliberate, but this seems to have come from the actual neighbour and not TPS.

This investigation is about as locked down as any I can remember. That’s impressive, but it also creates the appearance that the Police have nothing to go on, especially as we are about 15 months after the deaths.

I don’t think there has been a public appeal for assistance that has included any information whatsoever, such as “do you recognize this car” etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree that many leaks are deliberate, but this seems to have come from the actual neighbour and not TPS.

This investigation is about as locked down as any I can remember. That’s impressive, but it also creates the appearance that the Police have nothing to go on, especially as we are about 15 months after the deaths.

I don’t think there has been a public appeal for assistance that has included any information whatsoever, such as “do you recognize this car” etc.

Me, I’m really doubtful a neighbour would innocently just offer up this type of information to the media. In the way it’s been stated sounds to me just like a ruse but that’s just my opinion.

Why is the 14th significant - what of the 13th? If the neighbour is anxious to leak pertinent information, wouldn’t we all like to know something about what’s possibly far more critical to the investigation?

If LE knows the identity of the car, they have no need to make a public appeal. But the car did not murder the Shermans and placing someone at the home isn’t automatic evidence of murder either. However if they’ve got that much I’m hopeful it’s merely a matter of typing up loose ends before charges are announced.

 

[rickcross]

Interesting. This new fact tells us one important piece of information. There was a camera permanently pointed at the Sherman home, and the neighbour obviously didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the crime. We know that there was no forced entry, so how did the perp get in to the house???

 

[deugirtni]

Interesting. This new fact tells us one important piece of information. There was a camera permanently pointed at the Sherman home, and the neighbour obviously didn't see anything out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the crime. We know that there was no forced entry, so how did the perp get in to the house???

1. Was already waiting inside the house from having entered at a previous time, having gained entry in any numerous ways, such as possibly when someone entered via the garage, before it closed
2. Entered through an exterior door left unlocked by someone, say perhaps a 'potential buyer' viewing the home with a realtor
3. Knocked at the door and H let him in
4. Arrived at the home WITH H
Anyone else have any ideas?

Also, I don't feel this new fact tells us there was a camera permanently pointed at the S home, my mind would automatically go to that a neighbor's cam inadvertently recorded the happenings while pointed toward some part of their own property. Perhaps somewhere on the exterior of the neighbor's home, pointing out to cover their own driveway and in front of their house. (This may be a clue as to which neighbor it may have been?)

Do you feel that the neighbor would've been likely to see something out of the ordinary in the days leading up to the crime? I don't feel that would be the case, or that it would be meaningful in any way if nothing was seen before the day of the crime. jmo.

 

[deugirtni]

Me, I’m really doubtful a neighbour would innocently just offer up this type of information to the media. In the way it’s been stated sounds to me just like a ruse but that’s just my opinion.

RSBM
The media came to them, rather than vice versa. I could see a neighbor offering that information up, especially since the press was there asking questions anyway. I think people (generally) like to feel they could be of help. I could see if a neighbor thought he/she caught something potentially important on video, sent their copy to police to advise, and then feeling weird about it if TPS had never followed up on it with them, ie taken a statement or anything. Especially with all of the screwups with TPS over the past couple/few years... if the neighbor gave their only copy to TPS and they did nothing with it, who would know, other than the neighbor, so perhaps the neighbor wanted to enlighten that this was happening (not happening). It sounds like perhaps more of the same of what Greenspan talked about during the reward press conference. jmo.