Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[human]

How did the man get in?

 

[ldlager]

I’ve searched for a certain link a few times before but haven’t been successful in finding it. Does anyone remember what I think I do?

It contained a comment by a home owner only days after the discovery of the Sherman murders. Not a neighbour though, but someone who’s house was a couple streets over or more. It was a man I believe and he specifically mentioned TPS were interested in security video from both Dec 13th and Dec 14th. At the time many of here also wondered what was with Dec 14th and why that particular street.

Yes I remember also. The home was located a few blocks away from the Sherman’s, and there were some comments made that people or perhaps it was the reporter were surprised that the police were looking for video tapes so far away from the Sherman house. I checked a street map at the time and again right now- Was it rollscourt drive or Lauderdale drive?

 

[deugirtni]

How did the man get in?

This is why I thought for sure it would have been a realtor, and he would've had the lockbox code... but if a bonafide realtor showing, there would be records of that and no question about this person.

 

[PostTruth]

This going in and out actions of the person in question is certainly of interest. What sort of individual in the course of normal activities would be behaving this way?

"At 9:11 a.m. a dark-coloured four door sedan driving west on Old Colony Rd. stops and parks immediately in front of the Sherman house. It does not drive into the circular driveway. Three minutes after the car is parked a man gets out and at 9:14 a.m. he walks to the Sherman house and enters through the front door. He remains in the house for 12 minutes.

At 9:26 a.m., the man emerges from the house, walks back to his car and gets in. He remains in the car for just under 11 minutes, then gets out of his car and walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 9:37 a.m. This time he remains in the house for eight minutes.

At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, and walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges and gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m."

---I can envisage a tradesman, who was doing a repair for example and then waiting in his car waiting for paint or glue to dry, maybe having a smoke while waiting. Did the man look like a tradesman, or carry tools? had the Sherman had any work done recently that might have required a follow-up visit by a tradesman?

---He might be a 'cleaner' (see Harvey Keitel role, Pulp Fiction) to eliminate evidence. Was he carrying any cleaning supplies?

---Can you think of any other sort of individual who in the normal course of activities, would behave this way?

--- Could the person be reporting to a 'Boss' about the condition and whereabouts of the deceased, to confirm the job was done. Man goes into the house, inspects, reports in to the Boss from his car, the Boss asks some specific questions, the Man goes into the house and checks again, reports to the Boss, more questions, one more inspection and report to Boss, Man leaves. If you were the Boss, and paying big money for a 'hit' to be done in a certain way, would you not want independent confirmation the job was done right?

--- Does not seem typical behavior of a real estate agent though.

---

Assuming it was the culprit or one of the culprits, I think it’s pretty safe to rule out the murders were a complete amateur job. Any professional would know of surveillance in the area and would not make their return presence so visible.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes I remember also. The home was located a few blocks away from the Sherman’s, and there were some comments made that people or perhaps it was the reporter were surprised that the police were looking for video tapes so far away from the Sherman house. I checked a street map at the time and again right now- Was it rollscourt drive or Lauderdale drive?

Oh thank you! I’m certain that’s the same article you mention but I was beginning to wonder if I dreamt it. I don’t remember the street name at all but I wondered if there’s any connection to the reason for canvassing by TPS and this other Dec 14th video. I try searching for the article using the street names you’ve suggested.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes I remember also. The home was located a few blocks away from the Sherman’s, and there were some comments made that people or perhaps it was the reporter were surprised that the police were looking for video tapes so far away from the Sherman house. I checked a street map at the time and again right now- Was it rollscourt drive or Lauderdale drive?

Lauderdale, IMO.

 

[nuff]

Assuming it was the culprit or one of the culprits, I think it’s pretty safe to rule out the murders were a complete amateur job. Any professional would know of surveillance in the area and would not make their return presence so visible.

I don't actually believe in the foreign killers-for-hire theories - but they/he might not care about cameras. The third 21-minute visit could have been because the person who hired them demanded photographic proof, as the bodies had not yet been discovered. Plus the guy in the video wasn't identifiable, was he? The visits could have been just before he jumped on an international flight. Just sayin'.

 

[rickcross]

What I find intriguing here is how the police know the Shermans are dead when this man enters the house on the 14th?

Who is this person? If it were a realtor, surely the person would have been quickly identified. I certainly doubt a professional hitman would return to the scene at all, let alone for almost an hour in broad daylight.

Perhaps an associate of Barry's came to remove certain items from the house at Barry's request?

Also brings to mind that story about a family friend tweeting about the deaths before police had even made the news public?

 

[deugirtni]

What I find intriguing here is how the police know the Shermans are dead when this man enters the house on the 14th?
Good question. I'm presuming that since the bodies were found relatively quickly, the ME should have had a fair estimate of TOD. Also presuming that police may be basing that Dec13th-date of death on perhaps people reporting they had tried to reach them, either via email or phone, on the 14th. Considering it was rather early in the morning on the 14th when this man was seen however, I don't see how it could be completely discarded as a possibility that this guy may have had something to do with it (other than staging such deaths surely would've taken more time than the few minutes this guy was said to have been in the home).
Who is this person? If it were a realtor, surely the person would have been quickly identified. I certainly doubt a professional hitman would return to the scene at all, let alone for almost an hour in broad daylight.

Perhaps an associate of Barry's came to remove certain items from the house at Barry's request? Why would B have asked an associate to remove items from his house?

Also brings to mind that story about a family friend tweeting about the deaths before police had even made the news public?

My response is in red in link above.

 

[deugirtni]

I don't actually believe in the foreign killers-for-hire theories - but they/he might not care about cameras. The third 21-minute visit could have been because the person who hired them demanded photographic proof, as the bodies had not yet been discovered. Plus the guy in the video wasn't identifiable, was he? The visits could have been just before he jumped on an international flight. Just sayin'.

The guy in the video could not have possibly determined ahead of time that he would be unrecognizable on any neighbor's given video footage... would depend on the quality of equipment any said neighbors may have had?

 

[MistyWaters]

Found it, I’m grateful for the suggestions! Note the Dec 14th date.
Dec 29/17
WARMINGTON: Sherman investigation expands to neighbouring streets
That was, indeed, Toronto Police Homicide detectives probing in and around residential streets south of the Sherman mansion Friday.

And not just on the streets adjacent to Old Colony Rd., where billionaire Barry Sherman and his wife Honey were found dead Dec. 15, but also on streets a couple of blocks away.

Police canvassing homes on intersecting Gerald St. or Harrison Rd. could be considered routine. However, when they start to work abodes four streets over, on Lauderdale Dr., it makes one wonder just what are they up to and why are they there?

Const. David Hopkinson had no comment on this or the case and made the point he would not be provided with an update on canvas activity.

But neighbours in the area tell The Toronto Sun that officers have been politely asking for video surveillance files from in and around Dec. 14 — the day the Shermans are believed to have died from ligature neck compression.....”

 

[MistyWaters]

It has always been assumed that they were killed on the 13th at night. But maybe they were alive on Dec 14,I don’t think we know.

You could be right, I don’t think we know either and LE has never confirmed the Dec 13th date that I can find. Establishing time of death has never been an exact science.

Early on, many news sources refer to the deaths occurring either Dec 13 or 14th. There was one report iirc an source connected to Greenspan, about Honey wearing the same clothes as she wore on the 13th so over time it was concluded the 13th was the date.

During the press conference, LE only stated this, nothing more:
“At Friday’s press conference, police said Barry and Honey Sherman’s last contact with friends, family or business associates was late in the day Wednesday. The bodies were not discovered until just before noon on Friday, Dec. 15.”
Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, police say | The Star

 

[MistyWaters]

The guy in the video could not have possibly determined ahead of time that he would be unrecognizable on any neighbor's given video footage... would depend on the quality of equipment any said neighbors may have had?

Totally off the wall wild guess - at least two people were involved and the reason the man in the car was there was to pick up the killer, who was still cleaning up inside.

 

[rickcross]

Hmmm. Is this the same video footage that was incorrectly said to have been on the 14th but was actually a week or two prior?

 

[deugirtni]

You could be right, I don’t think we know either and LE has never confirmed the Dec 13th date that I can find. Establishing time of death has never been an exact science.

Early on, many news sources refer to the deaths occurring either Dec 13 or 14th. There was one report iirc an source connected to Greenspan, about Honey wearing the same clothes as she wore on the 13th so over time it was concluded the 13th was the date.

During the press conference, LE only stated this, nothing more:
“At Friday’s press conference, police said Barry and Honey Sherman’s last contact with friends, family or business associates was late in the day Wednesday. The bodies were not discovered until just before noon on Friday, Dec. 15.”
Barry and Honey Sherman were murdered, police say | The Star

B sent his last email at approx 8;15pm on the 13th, from his OFFICE.. and he reportedly arrived home around 9pm..
It's possible that the couple actually died on the 14th, only a few hours after that, before anyone had changed clothes... I think they think for sure (for whatever reason) that it was on that NIGHT, but seeing as midnight becomes a new date, they can't be that precise.. if I stay up late, and into the wee hours, I still consider the day/date to be the same day/date, IYKWIM? I think that is likely what the discrepancy re the 13th or the 14th is about, jmo.

 

[dotr]

Just noting.. fwiw
Video.
Criminals hiding billions in Toronto real estate | Watch News Videos Online
"March 21 2019
Criminals hiding billions in Toronto real estate
Toronto’s real-estate market welcomes criminals, giving them an easy way to invest dirty money, while driving up housing prices for regular people, according to Transparency International Canada. Global’s Sam Cooper helped cover this story of organized crime in British Columbia, and explains how Toronto’s situation compares."

 

[rickcross]

Totally off the wall wild guess - at least two people were involved and the reason the man in the car was there was to pick up the killer, who was still cleaning up inside.

Two people didn't come out of the house.

 

[MistyWaters]

Two people didn't come out of the house.

It’s never wise to close your mind to what you do not know. Someone going back and forth as was described leads to the impression of someone who’s impatiently waiting for another person to exit the house. Can you confirm the car did not return later, after 10:16am?

29 minutes inside Barry and Honey Sherman’s home: Who was the visitor?
“At 9:45 a.m., the man walks back to his car. This time he stays in his car for about 21 minutes, and walks back to the house and enters through the front door at 10:06 a.m. He remains in the house for nine minutes, then emerges and gets into his car and drives slowly west towards Bayview Ave. at 10:16 a.m.”

 

[JayFriend]

So what was the motive for the murders? I still feel that it's to do with the pharma business. Barry was always in litigation over patents. Today the exploitation of cannabis and patenting its medical applications is a big deal, worth billions. I'm willing to bet Barry had something in the works. Here is an interesting article.

Big Pharma Patents Cannabis Cancer Treatment

 

[Tighthead]

So what was the motive for the murders? I still feel that it's to do with the pharma business. Barry was always in litigation over patents. Today the exploitation of cannabis and patenting its medical applications is a big deal, worth billions. I'm willing to bet Barry had something in the works. Here is an interesting article.

Big Pharma Patents Cannabis Cancer Treatment

I think that Barry’s litigation portfolio might reveal the motive, but this seems like a personal killing. I don’t think it would relate to corporate espionage. Something closer to home, where someone has a significant personal investment.

Barry was willing to sue individuals into oblivion personally.