Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #11

[PostTruth]

Any idea as to exactly why the double murder was staged as a murder-suicide? Was it to throw off police or to soil BS' good name? Of course it can be both but am wondering whether the latter was the primary motivation after Donovan's latest article.

 

[MistyWaters]

Any idea as to exactly why the double murder was staged as a murder-suicide? Was it to throw off police or to soil BS' good name? Of course it can be both but am wondering whether the latter was the primary motivation after Donovan's latest article.

The articles certainly seem to reek of a certain amount of vindictiveness in general toward BS’s reputation, I’d agree.

And perhaps just a coincidence but I also noticed the three people who strongly spoke out against m/s prior to the official announcement have all been mentioned in Donovan’s recent articles, not in a flattering manner either.
- Honey’s sister
- FD
- JS

I think that’s rather interesting because those who were closest to Barry and Honey would’ve been in the best position to offer LE names of possible suspects. Somebody who they were leery or distrustful of as a result of a grievance or dispute, for example.

It leaves me optimistic something is about to break in the near future.

 

[1&2&3]

Just because JS had a degree in engineering, doesn’t make him a smart cookie. As in all fields, JS may have been book smart, but could not apply his knowledge in basic applications.

From seeing him give the eulogy at the funeral, I was not impressed that he had the inborn self drive or knowledge
which his father was gifted with. He appeared to me a spoiled kid who had grown up with every wish fulfilled and given to him on a silver platter. JMO.

His cocky attitude, even at this serene Service, sent a picture that he was ready to run Apotex and could do a much better job than his father. JS was not at all what I expected BS’s son to be.

My opinions only.

PS. It is heartbreaking to see a son or grandson take over the family business and we citizens watch it fail.

 

[dotr]

Sad, it seems Barry was very keen on being a grandfather to JS and his husband F's,
baby.
Eulogy and video.
Jonathon Sherman pays tribute to his parents Barry and Honey Sherman - Macleans.ca
‘We’ve had to navigate through a terrifying maze of non-information and unfounded speculation,’ Sherman said in his eulogy, adding: ‘Our parents never left anyone behind. They were taken from us.’
by Maclean's
Dec 21, 2017
"Most recently, you have been helping my husband Fred and me to build our family through the long and expensive path of surrogacy. It annoyed me how often you would ask me for an update, but I know it’s because you were so excited. I love you, and I thank you for everything."

 

[MistyWaters]

IIRC one of Donovan’s recent undisclosed sources eluded to a falling out between the children and Honey’s sister and something about separate shivas being held at the respective sisters homes.

Yet during the eulogy JS stated -
“He also announced the creation of the Honey and Barry Foundation of Giving, which the children have asked Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Schechtman, to oversee...”
7,000 gather to say a heartfelt goodbye to Barry and Honey Sherman

I really doubt the children would appoint MS to lead the Foundation of Giving if their relationship was strained. It’s also reported elsewhere the Memorial Chapel was involved in shiva arrangements.

“Benjamin’s Park Memorial Chapel is arranging the Shermans’ memorial service. According to the chapel’s website, shiva will be private.”
Thousands expected at funeral of Barry and Honey Sherman Thursday

 

[casesensitive]

Thanks dotr for posting the Macleans article again. Having read JS's partial eulogy again, I think it is apparent that he genuinely loved and was grateful to his mother and was devastated by her death. He was honest about his relationship with his absent father and acknowledged his good points.

It is hard being the child of a super star, genius, self made billionaire. ...big shoes to fill, and almost impossible for a child to compete with. I can understand his sense of rivalry, and know that he took it too far in challenging his father. The emails exposed JS at his worst. I'm sure he regrets them. But they do not make him a double murderer.

For a long time Kevin D. believed police covered up a murder/suicide based on his "close sources." Now he is basically pointing the finger at JS, based on his other "close sources". Does he really believe everything that "close sources" tell him? Or is he just going for a story?

 

[ldlager]

IIRC one of Donovan’s recent undisclosed sources eluded to a falling out between the children and Honey’s sister and something about separate shivas being held at the respective sisters homes.

Yet during the eulogy JS stated -
“He also announced the creation of the Honey and Barry Foundation of Giving, which the children have asked Honey Sherman’s sister, Mary Schechtman, to oversee...”
7,000 gather to say a heartfelt goodbye to Barry and Honey Sherman

I really doubt the children would appoint MS to lead the Foundation of Giving if their relationship was strained. It’s also reported elsewhere the Memorial Chapel was involved in shiva arrangements.

“Benjamin’s Park Memorial Chapel is arranging the Shermans’ memorial service. According to the chapel’s website, shiva will be private.”
Thousands expected at funeral of Barry and Honey Sherman Thursday

I believe Mary s raised the argument that she was promised a sizeable sum after the memorial service, not before. So she was already appointed to administer the Foundation before disclosing what she felt Hs had promised her. And clearly soon after the memorial, given that separate shivas were evidently held.
Imo

 

[MistyWaters]

I believe Mary s raised the argument that she was promised a sizeable sum after the memorial service, not before. So she was already appointed to administer the Foundation before disclosing what she felt Hs had promised her. And clearly soon after the memorial, given that separate shivas were evidently held.
Imo

Although I’m not Jewish it appears a shiva is held immediately following the burial. So in this case, for Donovan’s undisclosed source to hold water the family dysfunction had to have began prior to the funeral....in which case it’s really doubtful the children would’ve appointed MS to lead the Foundation of Giving.

“Shiva begins immediately following the burial and lasts for seven days, ending after the morning service on the seventh day.”
How is Shiva Observed | Shiva, Jewish Mourning

If any if the Sherman children or MS or any other named source close to the family were interviewed by Donovan and opening admitted to family strife then so be it. But information offered by an unidentified third party fits the definition of gossip, certainly not “news” reporting. Donovan has no means of verifying his source’s information nor is he obliged to....which leaves the reader to believe it or not.

 

[PostTruth]

The articles certainly seem to reek of a certain amount of vindictiveness in general toward BS’s reputation, I’d agree.

And perhaps just a coincidence but I also noticed the three people who strongly spoke out against m/s prior to the official announcement have all been mentioned in Donovan’s recent articles, not in a flattering manner either.
- Honey’s sister
- FD
- JS

I think that’s rather interesting because those who were closest to Barry and Honey would’ve been in the best position to offer LE names of possible suspects. Somebody who they were leery or distrustful of as a result of a grievance or dispute, for example.

It leaves me optimistic something is about to break in the near future.

Thanks. Am glad you said that.

It seems the last article is strongly suggesting JS was resentful against his father. What the whole truth of the matter is obviously another story.

For the same reason I'm not sure why Donovan wrote the article. It doesn't add much to what the public should know about the investigation, though makes good fodder for rumours.

 

[ldlager]

Although I’m not Jewish it appears a shiva is held immediately following the burial. So in this case, for Donovan’s undisclosed source to hold water the family dysfunction had to have began prior to the funeral....in which case it’s really doubtful the children would’ve appointed MS to lead the Foundation of Giving.

“Shiva begins immediately following the burial and lasts for seven days, ending after the morning service on the seventh day.”
How is Shiva Observed | Shiva, Jewish Mourning

If any if the Sherman children or MS or any other named source close to the family were interviewed by Donovan and opening admitted to family strife then so be it. But information offered by an unidentified third party fits the definition of gossip, certainly not “news” reporting. Donovan has no means of verifying his source’s information nor is he obliged to....which leaves the reader to believe it or not.

Started as a single shiva, then devolved into 2 shivas due to the family discord.
I believe Mr Donovan’s reporting is accurate, he has a good reputation as an investigative journalist, and I believe the Star would have vetted the story. And I have to believe he has even more that will be disclosed.

 

[ldlager]

Thanks. Am glad you said that.

It seems the last article is strongly suggesting JS was resentful against his father. What the whole truth of the matter is obviously another story.

For the same reason I'm not sure why Donovan wrote the article. It doesn't add much to what the public should know about the investigation, though makes good fodder for rumours.

I think part of the motivation for the article is in part to point out and identify one or more individuals other than family members that could possibly have benefitted the most financially from these murders. The article gives some context as to the wide pool of individuals that police should likely be investigating or questioning

 

[dotr]

Thinking that the articles "introduce" each of the "characters" associated in some way with the Sherman's, not unlike a "the butler did it" type mystery.
One moment you might think aha! it must be so and so, the next article turns that one on its' head with revelations about somebody else, creating new possible motives for murder.
This is the ultimate "whodunnit", with twists and turns and possibilities all hopefully leading to a big reveal at the end.
speculation,imo.

 

[ldlager]

I think part of the motivation for the article is in part to point out and identify one or more individuals other than family members that could possibly have benefitted the most financially from these murders. The article gives some context as to the wide pool of individuals that police should likely be investigating or questioning

According to the article, js prepared written answers to mr Donovan’s questions and provided these answers to the police; and js also said he would contact det. Price to discuss and elaborate these responses.
Based on this, I guess I am led to conclude that LE has not to date questioned js regarding the matters contained in mr Donovan’s article, even though these matters originated welll before the murders. And I have to ask, why not? Is LE, after 18 months, still not following up on potential info? Or is it possible that LE didn’t even know about this information after 18 months of “ongoing investigation”? Hmmmm...

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Maybe the JS emails were part of the data TPS received a few weeks ago? Donovan’s source might be a cop.

The most notable event prior to the police trying to obtain the data was JS firing Jack Kay (according to the Star.)

Story about the data:

April 25th, 2019. Kevin Donovan, Toronto Star:

The detective also told an Ontario Court of Justice hearing that within a week, police are expecting a "high volume" of electronic records they have been trying to obtain since January, and that at least one person they want to interview has refused to speak to police.

In court Wednesday, 10 large packets in manila envelopes, sealed with tape, sat on a table to Yim's right. If one were allowed to look inside at the reams of paper, they would answer a lot of questions in what is arguably the highest-profile unsolved case in Toronto's history.

These materials — the most recent ITO is 599 typed pages — were filed in support of requests by the police for judicial authorizations which can be either search warrants to search a place, or "production orders" to obtain such things as records from banks, companies and cellphone providers, which maintain both call and texting records.

Non-paywall link: Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’


Looking at the timeline of events according to the Star—

**Jack Kay was fired by JS from Apotex, according to the Star, on December 11, 2018.

Two days before the anniversary of Barry Sherman’s murder, Jonathon Sherman told his father’s longtime partner and friend Jack Kay to leave Apotex, the generic drug company the two men built over 35 years.

Kay, the chief executive officer of Apotex, was sitting in his office last Tuesday when Jonathon Sherman walked in and said his services were no longer required, according to a source with knowledge of what happened.

Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

**Days later, in January, 2019, the TPS try to obtain a high volume of data connected to the case. (In first article above.)

**In late April/May, 2019, TPS was set to receive this data. (Also in first article above.)

**June 27th, 2019, The Star publishes sourced verbatim emails written by JS to BS where JS questions BS competence. Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star

ETA: removed quoted post.

 

[ldlager]

Maybe the JS emails were part of the data TPS received a few weeks ago? Donovan’s source might be a cop.

The most notable event prior to the police trying to obtain the data was JS firing Jack Kay (according to the Star.)

Story about the data:

April 25th, 2019. Kevin Donovan, Toronto Star:







Non-paywall link: Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’


Looking at the timeline of events according to the Star—

**Jack Kay was fired by JS from Apotex, according to the Star, on December 11, 2018.



Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

**Days later, in January, 2019, the TPS try to obtain a high volume of data connected to the case. (In first article above.)

**In late April/May, 2019, TPS was set to receive this data. (Also in first article above.)

**June 27th, 2019, The Star publishes sourced verbatim emails written by JS to BS where JS questions BS competence. Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star

ETA: removed quoted post.

Thanks. 18 months later and they were still waiting to receive basic information

 

[ldlager]

Maybe the JS emails were part of the data TPS received a few weeks ago? Donovan’s source might be a cop.

The most notable event prior to the police trying to obtain the data was JS firing Jack Kay (according to the Star.)

Story about the data:

April 25th, 2019. Kevin Donovan, Toronto Star:







Non-paywall link: Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’


Looking at the timeline of events according to the Star—

**Jack Kay was fired by JS from Apotex, according to the Star, on December 11, 2018.



Barry Sherman’s son tells Apotex CEO to leave | The Star

**Days later, in January, 2019, the TPS try to obtain a high volume of data connected to the case. (In first article above.)

**In late April/May, 2019, TPS was set to receive this data. (Also in first article above.)

**June 27th, 2019, The Star publishes sourced verbatim emails written by JS to BS where JS questions BS competence. Barry Sherman’s son raised concerns about Apotex founder’s investment strategy and business competence: Sources | The Star

ETA: removed quoted post.

If one of mr donovan’s Sources is a cop, this latest info release could in fact be planned by LE to gauge the reactions of one or more of those involved or mentioned. Do others have views on this possibility?

 

[dotr]

If one of mr donovan’s Sources is a cop, this latest info release could in fact be planned by LE to gauge the reactions of one or more of those involved or mentioned. Do others have views on this possibility?

Had wondered about the possibility LE was communicating to the killer/s and those people who may know who they are, through the media in one form or another.
Again, thinking of this statement from last year..
re post.
Toronto police obtain nine new search warrants in Sherman murder investigation | The Star
rbbm.
"Immediately following the Greenspan press conference, Toronto police Chief Mark Saunders said he has had to be careful with what he said about the case because he knows “for a fact” that the Shermans’ killers are watching his televised remarks, adding he was perturbed that Greenspan released some information related to the case.

Saunders said he was particularly bothered with some of the specific comments Greenspan made at the press conference about the crime scene. At the press conference, Greenspan described to reporters how Barry Sherman was found seated with one leg crossed over the other “in a passive manner,” with his eyeglasses “undisturbed” and his jacket pulled slightly back — a position the lawyer said refuted the theory of a murder-suicide. These details have already been published in accounts by the Star and other media, say people close to Greenspan’s team.

Chaisson’s post-mortem made it clear the Shermans were “were both murdered and that the Toronto Police Service should not have drawn any conclusion which suggested self-inflicted injuries,” Greenspan said at the news conference.

In his response, Saunders said Greenspan was incorrect. “Toronto police service never reached a premature conclusion. This investigation has been done to a very high level of professionalism and high level of expertise,” he said, adding that he believes the case will be solved.

“It’s not over yet. We are continuing to work very hard to reach the conclusion we think we can reach with the help of the public.”

 

[dotr]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

There is a crime fiction bookshop in Toronto, which has apparently received LE visits in the past, inquiring if there were any books where such and such (fill in the blanks) happened.
It seems that killers sometimes do get ideas from books and try to replicate them.
Maybe it is not such a bad thing for the good guys to read them too.
Speculation, imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

This is the ultimate "whodunnit", with twists and turns and possibilities all hopefully leading to a big reveal at the end.

The resolution at the end told by Hercule Poirot, if I had a free wish ...

 

[Errrr]

Beyond being a charming individual I do not believe FD'A has any great talents for business or film making. One has just to watch one of his films for a few minutes to be aware of that. I do not believe BS's relationship with FD'A was based on making money for BS. I think it was more on an emotional friendship basis. The fact JS questioned and referred negatively to BS and FD'As relationship on a business basis missed the point. I also think it might be a little presumptuous for JS to question one of the most successful entrepreneurs in Canadian history about his business acumen. I have a feeling that BS was not too impressed with JS's investment strategy of buying real estate and holding until the price went up. It is my understanding BS liked creativity and excitement in his projects.

Think of it as a hobby. BS is entitled to have some fun. He can afford it. A lot of guys understate to significant others how much their hobbies cost. He could have bought into yachting instead. His son is a gnat.
However, his son also has enough money, he doesn’t need to resort to extremes (like Oland) to get more.