Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[deugirtni]

No, and nobody is suggesting that.

At any time after commencing litigation, either party may seek various interim orders, including injunctive relief. A Mareva type injunction is not easily obtained but it prevents the defendant from dissipating assets.

Any such order is obviously issued by a judge who has considered it on its merits, so describing it as arbitrary is a strange choice. It could also have been negotiated by the parties.

Why in particular do you consider it arbitrary in this instance?

Because of the facts of KW's case as far as what I have read, and backed up by the court and the appeals court throwing it out as frivolous.

 

[Tighthead]

“The Supreme Court of Canada only hears cases that it considers to be of public importance and to have national significance.”
https://canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/ccs-ajc/pdf/courten.pdf

I’m impressed that Kevin Donovan’s case made it to the Supreme Court. His case will be heard in March.

He started the process in June, 2019 and the court date was set in December.

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38695


Kerry Winter et al started the process in October, 2018 and the file is still incomplete:

Supreme Court of Canada - SCC Case Information - Docket - 38899




https://canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/csj-sjc/ccs-ajc/pdf/courten.pdf

Isn’t he the respondent?

It will be interesting to see if there are any intervenors.

 

[deugirtni]

what happened to the money from the sale of the business?

Didn't KW accuse his adoptive parents of squandering that money?

 

[Tighthead]

Because of the facts of KW's case as far as what I have read, and backed up by the court and the appeals court throwing it out as frivolous.

That is very vague. Again, if it was not obtained by consent, it is anything but arbitrary. It involves the application of the facts to the law. Only focussing on the facts and not the legal test is pointless.

The ultimate outcome of the litigation is hindsight and really not relevant to how the order was obtained.

 

[Tighthead]

is there such an order?

No clue in this case, KW may be making it up.

Sometimes parties will negotiate the security and enter into a consent order. Since Apotex isn’t a public company, there is really no hardship - and a party can always apply to court to vary. For instance, in divorce cases there is usually a non-disposal order on both parties, but they may get an order permitting the sale of the asset with funds held in trust.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Isn’t he the respondent?

It will be interesting to see if there are any intervenors.

Yes- I got it wrong. Thank you for correcting it. I changed my post.

 

[Tighthead]

Didn't KW accuse his adoptive parents of squandering that money?

I think so, combined with Royal Trust.

I think there was less oversight in those days.

 

[deugirtni]

I think so, combined with Royal Trust.

I think there was less oversight in those days.

I'm pretty sure the Barkin family had plenty enough of their own funds with which to raise their four adopted children without dipping into the kids' trust fund. Whatever was spent from that, presumably for educational or other valid purposes, I'm sure was legitimate, and it's just more of someone's entitlement complex coming out to make such accusations. It reminds me of something a thirteen year old might do, because of limited understanding of how the world works, etc. I'm not sure if any of the orphans ended up suing the Barkin family for perceived squandering of said funds, but I'm sure they would have, if they actually felt they had a case. imo.

 

[WINDSOR]

Speaking with only respect and understanding, we should consider some of the emotional and health challenges that KW has experienced. Because of that I believe we should be careful when considering KW quotes and comments as to their validity. We may not be fully aware of the context they were given in.

Finally, though not exactly related, people with mental health challenges are more prone to self harm, rather than harming others, even though there are too many examples of each.

 

[Satchie]

That is very vague. Again, if it was not obtained by consent, it is anything but arbitrary. It involves the application of the facts to the law. Only focussing on the facts and not the legal test is pointless.

The ultimate outcome of the litigation is hindsight and really not relevant to how the order was obtained.

A possibly irrelevant question has come to mind: might there have been a lien on the Sherman house on Old Colony? All liens would have had to be discarged before it could be put up for sale.

 

[Satchie]

Speaking with only respect and understanding, we should consider some of the emotional and health challenges that KW has experienced. Because of that I believe we should be careful when considering KW quotes and comments as to their validity. We may not be fully aware of the context they were given in.

Finally, though not exactly related, people with mental health challenges are more prone to self harm, rather than harming others, even though there are too many examples of each.

I certainly agree that a person's words can be twisted and exploited by the media, most people are cautious before doing it (hence Brian Greenspan being employed as spokesperson for the family).

 

[Tighthead]

A possibly irrelevant question has come to mind: might there have been a lien on the Sherman house on Old Colony? All liens would have had to be discarged before it could be put up for sale.

Something like a builder’s lien or a judgement gets cleared off at closing.

A lis pendens would prevent the sale of the property subject to a court order or an arrangement between the parties.

 

[William_60]

Speaking with only respect and understanding, we should consider some of the emotional and health challenges that KW has experienced. Because of that I believe we should be careful when considering KW quotes and comments as to their validity. We may not be fully aware of the context they were given in.

Finally, though not exactly related, people with mental health challenges are more prone to self harm, rather than harming others, even though there are too many examples of each.

Good stuff.

In the spirit of it, I’ll post some floating chips that won’t advance our group along the whodunnit trail, but they’re things I feel compelled to post:

> I don’t believe any sort of money, loaned or gifted, could ever, will ever act as a remedy for KW’s upset.

I believe the pain rises from an imagined future with his Dad alive, guiding the family with strong principles and creating not just success for himself but a real Winter family foundation; where money would take a rightful backseat to the best qualities only a complete family can provide.

I don’t believe this imagined future to be fantasy; I believe it was there, and then...it wasn’t. That’s devastating.

> In light the above, understanding KW’s pain to at least some degree, knowing he reads posts here, there is some struggle, sometimes, to defend Barry Sherman, who KW apparently hates, who drew a long straw in life and lived at least some of the imagined future I think KW envisions for Lou Winter.

After much reading, I do not know any of the principal figures nearly enough to judge them.

I don’t want to judge them, and won’t. I’m trying to understand, what happened on Dec. 25, 2017, and the bigger picture.

I may never get it right, but I will try.

I’m much less caught up in the enormous wealth of Barry Sherman than I am in this ability, if not outright enthusiasm, to repeatedly take on Big Pharma.

I’m less interested in who did the deed and why than I am saddened The Shermans met a fate my knowledge of the facts suggest was completely unjust. I doubt many posters would be here if they thought the couple deserved their fate.

There is a lot of sadness in the broader story that actually serves to underline how money is certainly not everything.

There are streams of sadness that won’t just evaporate with an arrest and conviction.

There are reminders that words and actions matter in our everyday lives.

That might be the most important takeaway.

( apologies if the above is outside the lines. If it is, I would understand if it must be removed. )

 

[human]

I am sad that a couple that gave so much to so many had their lives snuffed out.

In the book about them, so many people talked about their giving with nothing expected in return,

Barry sounds like he was a great guy. And they lived very modestly considering their wealth.

I urge people to read the book. It left me with a lot of hope because of their humanity. Barry loved to work. It was a lot of fun and a challenge for him.

His own father died while he was young and his mother had quite a time of it.

 

[anonymess]

Barry comes across much better in the book than I expected. Quirky but likeable.

 

[dotr]

Good stuff.

In the spirit of it, I’ll post some floating chips that won’t advance our group along the whodunnit trail, but they’re things I feel compelled to post:

> I don’t believe any sort of money, loaned or gifted, could ever, will ever act as a remedy for KW’s upset.

I believe the pain rises from an imagined future with his Dad alive, guiding the family with strong principles and creating not just success for himself but a real Winter family foundation; where money would take a rightful backseat to the best qualities only a complete family can provide.

I don’t believe this imagined future to be fantasy; I believe it was there, and then...it wasn’t. That’s devastating.

> In light the above, understanding KW’s pain to at least some degree, knowing he reads posts here, there is some struggle, sometimes, to defend Barry Sherman, who KW apparently hates, who drew a long straw in life and lived at least some of the imagined future I think KW envisions for Lou Winter.

After much reading, I do not know any of the principal figures nearly enough to judge them.

I don’t want to judge them, and won’t. I’m trying to understand, what happened on Dec. 25, 2017, and the bigger picture.

I may never get it right, but I will try.

I’m much less caught up in the enormous wealth of Barry Sherman than I am in this ability, if not outright enthusiasm, to repeatedly take on Big Pharma.

I’m less interested in who did the deed and why than I am saddened The Shermans met a fate my knowledge of the facts suggest was completely unjust. I doubt many posters would be here if they thought the couple deserved their fate.

There is a lot of sadness in the broader story that actually serves to underline how money is certainly not everything.

There are streams of sadness that won’t just evaporate with an arrest and conviction.

There are reminders that words and actions matter in our everyday lives.

That might be the most important takeaway.

( apologies if the above is outside the lines. If it is, I would understand if it must be removed. )

Beautifully stated William_60, your post is succinct, sensitive and kind, imo.

 

[Windsorite]

So I've just finished KD's book and I found this information interesting, I'm paraphrasing here.

Barry's will was written in 2013, the trustee's were changed once in 2015, and again in 2017.

To me this seems odd given that the couple had such lifelong friendships. And as far as I'm
aware no one needed to be replaced (ie. someone listed had passed away).

My first thought was 2015 was at the time of the written emails between JS and BS.

When Sherman died, the trustee's were Jonathon Sherman, Alex Glasenberg (investment exec at Apotex), Jack Kay and Brad Krawczyk (Alex's Sherman's husband).

Anybody have other ideas why this may have taken place?

 

[Tighthead]

So I've just finished KD's book and I found this information interesting, I'm paraphrasing here.

Barry's will was written in 2013, the trustee's were changed once in 2015, and again in 2017.

To me this seems odd given that the couple had such lifelong friendships. And as far as I'm
aware no one needed to be replaced (ie. someone listed had passed away).

My first thought was 2015 was at the time of the written emails between JS and BS.

When Sherman died, the trustee's were Jonathon Sherman, Alex Glasenberg (investment exec at Apotex), Jack Kay and Brad Krawczyk (Alex's Sherman's husband).

Anybody have other ideas why this may have taken place?

It may have just been adding people and not removing anyone. With such a complicated estate, and so much weight on Apotex, having a committee with various strengths can be helpful.

The family members may have been the last included, when he was satisfied they had the acumen to contribute.

 

[casesensitive]

Also, everyone knows police aren't going to say who they have or haven't interviewed, they're not going to issue corrections to anything the media have published : that would reveal too much about the investigation.

True, and this reminds me that at least one person who LE wanted to interview had refused to speak to them, per TPS at the Ont. Court of Justice hearing last April. That certainly sends up a red flag.

I wonder if LE was ever successful in speaking to that person(s) (and others, who LE could not locate possible because they left Canada). If you refuse to speak to LE in a murder investigation, they will immediately zero in on you as a POI and investigate the hell out of you. At the same hearing, LE stated that they have a working theory, and an idea of what happened. That is a confident, bold statement to make, if it is true.

I have to wonder if the above noted, unnamed person(s) who refused to speak to LE provided a direction in the investigation which has turned out to be very productive. It seems that LE want more evidence to make an arrest, but it sounds positive imo.

Barry and Honey Sherman murder case: Police have working theory and ‘an idea of what happened’ | The Star

 

[ldlager]

It may have just been adding people and not removing anyone. With such a complicated estate, and so much weight on Apotex, having a committee with various strengths can be helpful.

The family members may have been the last included, when he was satisfied they had the acumen to contribute.

Absolutely correct.