Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[Number8]

I use Facetime all of the time. To not be seen is deliberate.

Most of the info about the crime seems to be anecdotal. What have the police said that can be attributed as fact

The police didn't say anything about a faceless iphone call. That was all 3rd party via reporting and anon sources. So I think we should take that with a grain of salt.
I facetime with my brother almost everyday while he's working, and the visual aspect often cuts out as he's chatting with me/checking his work email. I'm just saying that if this anecdote is even true there's a lot of perfectly normal explanations.

 

[1&2&3]

With all this talk about wills, let’s see if I understand this.

What is the obligation of the executors when presented with the original will from the family lawyer and then a copy of a new will HS wrote with another lawyer? Which one takes precedence?

How is it decided?

Should a person leave the original will with the lawyer and take a copy? Then if the family has any objections, the lawyer has the original to settle things down. This is even in just a regular family, not one of substantial money.

 

[ldlager]

I was watching the press conference until it got preempted by a government press conference, still going on.

It's quite a disappointment after being announced as a "joint submission from both the TPS and the Sherman PI Team". Clearly nothing new is being revealed. The Sherman team has concluded investigating. TPS has opened a new tip line and is asking those who submitted tips to the Sherman team to resubmit them to TPS. It looks like TPS lost or ignored the tips passed to them and are saying they want them directly without being screened or editorialized.

Yes. Or perhaps LE feels there were tips that they weren't provided with; or that the ones they were provided with may have been edited

 

[human]

The police didn't say anything about a faceless iphone call. That was all 3rd party via reporting and anon sources. So I think we should take that with a grain of salt.
I facetime with my brother almost everyday while he's working, and the visual aspect often cuts out as he's chatting with me/checking his work email. I'm just saying that if this anecdote is even true there's a lot of perfectly normal explanations.

my point is that the police have said little about anything. Everything we “know” is not official.

when making a call to a stranger, a normal course would be to introduce yourself and the purpose of your call.

 

[Jealoushe]

Couldn't catch the press conference, so it was a nothing burger?

Follow the money, who has the most to gain from their deaths?

 

[deugirtni]

No. When you sign a will you revoke your past wills. So executing multiple originals doesn’t work (excepting the dual will strategy which isn’t what we are talking about). There is one valid signed original will.

The lawyer would contact the executors, as I have stated twice already today. It’s not like the lawyer wouldn’t hear about her death and the subsequent search for a will.

What if the lawyer may not know how to contact the executors? I don't recall giving executors' contact info when I had my will drafted. And what if it is years later and the executor may have changed contact info several times even if that info had been given at the time?

 

[WINDSOR]

Press Conference, may have been most significant to give a message to perpetrators (s) of the murders.
1) The TPS is still working hard on the case.
2) The Private investigation team has stopped, (implied is they know what happened and so does TPS and there is nothing more for the PI team to do)
3) TPS wants all the tips previously submitted to the private investigators, submitted to TPS directly) This could be important in a trial and for the availability of witnesses and evidence for the prosecution)

One thing that did surprise me though. In open investigations the police sometimes appeal to the perpetrators to turn themselves in. As far as I know this request was not made. Curious to me.

 

[ldlager]

The Inspector said that the TPS "is in daily contact" with the Sherman family. This concerns me, and strikes me as strange on a couple of fronts:
1) Do all other murder victims families get the same courtesy/treatment?
2) Why would daily contact be required? And why would police spend time doing this instead of allocating scarce police resources to investigating?
2) What if a family member could be a suspect?

 

[deugirtni]

the fact that there were no faces is super anecdotal, and we don't know if, or at what point in the call, their faces didn't appear. there could be many reasons why - if you've ever been on a facetime on an iphone, you'll know that if you go into another app for a few moments (i.e. to look something up in your browser), the facetime visuals cut out and just continue via voice, until you go back to the app. I just don't think it's that suspicious.

If being given a tour of the home, I doubt one would get out of the app and go somewhere else. The whole point was apparently to see the house in realtime via facetime.

 

[ldlager]

After 2 years they are still going through evidence? Really? I get that some new leads come in from time to time. But it sounds like they may still be reviewing stuff they originally collected.....

 

[Jealoushe]

Press Conference, may have been most significant to give a message to perpetrators (s) of the murders.
1) The TPS is still working hard on the case.
2) The Private investigation team has stopped, (implied is they know what happened and so does TPS and there is nothing more for the PI team to do)
3) TPS wants all the tips previously submitted to the private investigators, submitted to TPS directly) This could be important in a trial and for the availability of witnesses and evidence for the prosecution)

One thing that did surprise me though. In open investigations the police sometimes appeal to the perpetrators to turn themselves in. As far as I know this request was not made. Curious to me.

I thought itmight be a message to the perp/perps too.

 

[MistyWaters]

I was watching the press conference until it got preempted by a government press conference, still going on.

It's quite a disappointment after being announced as a "joint submission from both the TPS and the Sherman PI Team". Clearly nothing new is being revealed. The Sherman team has concluded investigating. TPS has opened a new tip line and is asking those who submitted tips to the Sherman team to resubmit them to TPS. It looks like TPS lost or ignored the tips passed to them and are saying they want them directly without being screened or editorialized.

I think that was positive news the PI investigation is closed because IMO TPS has evidence gathered that will lead to an arrest sooner than later.

And if TPS didn’t ask for the tips to be resubmitted to them, I can imagine murmurs the PI might’ve been secreting tips from TPS. Idsinga stated the $10 million reward is still standing and can be awarded through consultation between TPS and the family. Asking for the tips to be resubmitted directly to TPS mitigates anyone coming out of the woodwork later after a successful prosecution and suing the family, claiming their tip wasn’t forwarded by the PI team.

It’s only a matter of due diligence, is how I see it.

 

[human]

What if the lawyer may not know how to contact the executors? I don't recall giving executors' contact info when I had my will drafted. And what if it is years later and the executor may have changed contact info several times even if that info had been given at the time?

my daughter is a notary. Rather than going to an attorney for $$$$$, we had my daughter notarize the changes we made in our will. We no longer wanted the executor to do our will. I don’t think he knew or if he did, it was so long ago he may not remember.

We have nothing complicated so I think our will hardly matters. But I would think an attorney would advise Honey so that everything is in order.

with everything they had, it would have to be super complicated. I am surprised that Honey and Barry did not do their wills together because of all of the complications they must have.

 

[deugirtni]

Personally, I think the family fired the PI team because of all the stuff that's been coming out in the news, and they can no longer trust them to remain confidential.

I'm glad they have asked for tips to be resubmitted to TPS.. it presents a real problem if/when the case ever goes to trial, regarding chain of evidence and possible editing, etc. It didn't ever make sense for tips to have gone anywhere else in the first place. It would sure be interesting if someone close ended up being a suspect, and there they were, privy to all of the tips, potentially even about themselves. imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

After 2 years they are still going through evidence? Really? I get that some new leads come in from time to time. But it sounds like they may still be reviewing stuff they originally collected.....

I thought it interesting when Idsinga stated they had enormous masses of information to sort through, but not all information is evidence.

That’s the difference between a police investigation and the tidbits dropped by the media - who sometimes lead the public to believe the sensational-worthy pieces of information leaked to them from their sources, then published, ought to be evidence of “something” the investigation considers important.

 

[Number8]

The Inspector said that the TPS "is in daily contact" with the Sherman family. This concerns me, and strikes me as strange on a couple of fronts:
1) Do all other murder victims families get the same courtesy/treatment?
2) Why would daily contact be required? And why would police spend time doing this instead of allocating scarce police resources to investigating?
2) What if a family member could be a suspect?

I definitely got the vibe that none of the family members are suspects anymore.

 

[Tighthead]

What if the lawyer may not know how to contact the executors? I don't recall giving executors' contact info when I had my will drafted. And what if it is years later and the executor may have changed contact info several times even if that info had been given at the time?

In normal cases the lawyer may not know if the death. I’m speaking specifically to the situation at hand. Whoever drafted a will for Honey Sherman knows she died.

 

[deugirtni]

The Inspector said that the TPS "is in daily contact" with the Sherman family. This concerns me, and strikes me as strange on a couple of fronts:
1) Do all other murder victims families get the same courtesy/treatment?
2) Why would daily contact be required? And why would police spend time doing this instead of allocating scarce police resources to investigating?
2) What if a family member could be a suspect?

I think his exact wording was that TPS is in daily contact with 'members' of the Sherman family. This may not include every one of them.

 

[dotr]

Sherman murders: Private investigation concludes, Toronto police ask for help with new tip line
“The family and the police urge anyone who has reliable information regarding the murders, no matter how small or unimportant that information may seem, to contact the police,” Idsinga said.

The press conference comes one day after the two-year anniversary of their deaths. Both Barry and Honey were found inside their Toronto home on Old Colony Road near Bayview Avenue and Highway 401 just before 11:45 a.m. on Dec. 15, 2017.

Police have also set up a direct email address for the case. Tips can be provided at [email protected] or anonymously through Crime Stoppers at 416-222-8477.
"Idsinga said 150 items have been submitted to the Centre of Forensic Science for testing, 243 witnesses have been interviewed, and four terabytes of security video have been obtained."

"Idsinga added that solving the case has been a priority for the police and said that although it’s been two years, other cases have been be solved years later.

“There’s lots of speculation and there’s lots of theories. We’re still combing through a lot of information,” Idsinga said.

The Sherman family was not in attendance."

 

[MistyWaters]

my daughter is a notary. Rather than going to an attorney for $$$$$, we had my daughter notarize the changes we made in our will. We no longer wanted the executor to do our will. I don’t think he knew or if he did, it was so long ago he may not remember.

We have nothing complicated so I think our will hardly matters. But I would think an attorney would advise Honey so that everything is in order.

with everything they had, it would have to be super complicated. I am surprised that Honey and Barry did not do their wills together because of all of the complications they must have.

Knowing it was the wishes of the family/administrators to seal the estate business from the very onset and applied to the court accordingly, I’ve never figured out why Donovan or anyone else would’ve expected the attorney holding their Wills would’ve presented them in an open court.

JMO the missing/lost/amended/secret Will business is a side show and both estates were in order from the very beginning.