Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

[dotr]

In Chicago's news..
Private Investigation of Billionaire Murders Over in Canada
"The family, through their lawyer Brian Greenspan, has been critical of Toronto police. A year ago they announced the reward and a tip line separate from Toronto police. Idsinga said that private tip line is now inactive and asked those who have provided tips to the private investigation team to resubmit them to police.

Sharon Timlin, a legal assistant to Greenspan, said in an email to The Associated Press that the private investigators were not fired.
She said the work of the private investigative team has been completed and that Greenspan continues to be an adviser, consultant and spokesperson to the family."

 

[Tobiano8th]

thanks for all the color on the TPD press conference....

didn't seem like much was said..........

i look at it 2 possible ways: 1) they did this because it was 2nd anniversary, 2) partially #1 but also that they are getting much closer to arrrest.

although people on here speculated (and i agree), that they wouldn't tie together the anniversary and an arrest unless it was unavoidable i.e. this is not hollywood. adding "artistic impression" is not appropriate behaviour

KW talking about his brother as possible suspect when he heard about it is i think just KW thinking out loud. i wouldn't put any stock in it, but of course a defense attorney might.

if this ever gets to trial, it will be a huge mess due to so many factors

 

[Tobiano8th]

i will say i don't think they would have had press conference on 2nd anniversary if they weren't making very significant progress.

 

[dotr]

AUDIO.
Who killed the Shermans?; cryptocurrency mystery; Canada's secret visa program - Afternoons with Rob Breakenridge - Omny.fm
Who killed the Shermans?; cryptocurrency mystery; Canada's secret visa program
Published Dec 16, 2019 6:25 PM

SNC-Lavalin executive found guilty, An update on the Sherman murder investigations & Ontario joins a class-action lawsuit - Scott Thompson Show - Omny.fm
SNC-Lavalin executive found guilty, An update on the Sherman murder investigations & Ontario joins a class-action lawsuit

Published Dec 16, 2019 5:35 PM

"The murder investigation of Toronto billionaires Honey and Barry Sherman remains ongoing as a private investigation wraps up. As Adrian Ghobrial reports, police say they are still looking for tips."

 

[deugirtni]

It seems the press conference in its entirety might be available for viewing here:

Edited to add: Listen to the very beginning portion when it seems Idsinga's voice is speaking to someone else about what's going on. It seems Idsinga may not have been aware that the mics were recording him at that time. imo. (A poster at the time mentioned this also.)

 

[Milhano]

Some thoughts, after reading the new Star article:

The resemblance to the sculptures could definitely be coincidental. However, the fact that it specifically mentions that Barry's leg was folded over his other leg seems too specific/awkward of a pose for it not to be intentionally placed in that position. It seems very hard to believe that his legs would end up that way in any other circumstance. So very odd.

I find Kevin Donovan's theory interesting. He believes the murderer wasn't a hit, but rather someone they knew and trusted, and that it started from an argument in the house about money. There's a few things I think support this:

• B & H's estate has been locked down and that the police have hinted that their theory also revolves around the estate/money, and it was known that there were internal family conflicts about this. This theory fits with occam's razor (that the simplest explanation is usually the right one) rather than some complex plot about a hitman or business conspiracy.
• The article also implied that normally B & H aren't home at that time, so it was someone who knew they would be there/who had pre-arranged meeting
• The fact that H's phone was left in a powder room she normally never uses is very odd, and makes me think she may have ran there to escape and was dragged away. But if it was a professional hit, wouldn't they have gone back for her phone or at least done a walk-through of the house to make sure they left no traces behind? This makes me think that whoever killed them wasn't a professional, and wasn't thinking straight/in a panic or rage

However, to contradict this theory - I'm not sure why B's gloves would've been dropped on the ground in the garage where he entered. That seems to fit more with an "ambush".

Interested to hear what others think of this.

I do find the theory of an ambush interesting. Wether a professional hit or not, was there any mentioned or suggestions by the police or on this thread, that the perpetrator(s) could have been hiding in one of the vehicles (B or H's) and jumped out as they arrived home? And this is how they gained entry? Have not read all the threads so I do apologize if this theory has been explored.

 

[deugirtni]

If the home didn't have a security system and now we learn that a door was left unlocked and a window open, it seems the killer(s) had no issues with entering the home, and it is a moot point that there was no evidence of forced entry.

Maybe more interesting however.. is that a person with no knowledge of the Shermans, say a thief, or just a random nutcase killer, or a home invasion perp.. they would be probably more likely to do something like what had previously been done, such as break in through a skylight, or just bust a door down, rather than going around and checking all the doors and windows to see if one might have been left open. But someone with personal and current knowledge of the Shermans may have been well aware of the peculiarities of the Shermans and may have known that the door in question was often left unlocked, or even that a room had just been painted and a window was left open to air out the room, etc. Just random thoughts.

 

[casesensitive]

Insp. Idsinga stated that Gr

It seems the press conference in its entirety might be available for viewing here:

Edited to add: Listen to the very beginning portion when it seems Idsinga's voice is speaking to someone else about what's going on. It seems Idsinga may not have been aware that the mics were recording him at that time. imo.

How do I get max volume on my computer to be louder? I can't hear stuff that some of you can. (Sooo frustrating).

I also didn't hear the question that Insp. Idsinga answered by saying that "No investigation is perfect--I'll never make that claim, but homicide detectives were present at the scene and have been working diligently ever since." I am guessing that the question referred to TPS's initial statements from the crime scene that suggested M/S? Can anyone hear that question?

Deugirtni I would appreciate if you would post what you heard. Another member (Number8) posted what they heard in post #143.

"Before the news conference started I could hear (who i assume was) Hank Idsinga chatting in the background with the press and talking about how their initial M/S theory didn't hinder the investigation. He said that since they "have all evidence", it's ok/normal to change their minds over the course of the investigation."

It sounds like Insp. Idsinga, being well aware of the criticism (and evidence) of their wrong theory in determining M/S, realizes that their mistake can't be brushed off as Susan Gomes did in her presser. He didn't admit outright that they made a mistake, but he didn't deny it, which is a wise decision and actually promotes confidence in their current investigation. JMO

 

[dotr]

How the private investigation by the family of Barry and Honey Sherman began and ended | The Star
"Hours after the bodies were discovered, distraught family and friends gathered that Friday night at the home of Sherman daughter Alexandra Krawczyk and her husband Brad. In a horrible twist of fate, Honey and Barry had been due that evening at Alexandra’s home at 6 pm to light candles and have a Hanukkah dinner, according to emails viewed by the Star.

That evening, Alexandra received a telephone call from a relative of Rochelle Wise and David Pichosky, a Toronto couple murdered (cause of death was asphyxiation) in Hallendale, Florida in 2013. The case remains unsolved to this day. The Wise/Pichosky relative told Alexandra that their family had found private investigators invaluable in probing the unsolved murders and helping them navigate the quite foreign world of police and crime."

Ws thread..
FL - FL - David 'Donny' Pichosky, 71, & Rochelle Wise, 66, Hallandale Beach, 10 Jan 2013

 

[Satchie]

If the home didn't have a security system and now we learn that a door was left unlocked and a window open, it seems the killer(s) had no issues with entering the home, and it is a moot point that there was no evidence of forced entry.

Maybe more interesting however.. is that a person with no knowledge of the Shermans, say a thief, or just a random nutcase killer, or a home invasion perp.. they would be probably more likely to do something like what had previously been done, such as break in through a skylight, or just bust a door down, rather than going around and checking all the doors and windows to see if one might have been left open. But someone with personal and current knowledge of the Shermans may have been well aware of the peculiarities of the Shermans and may have known that the door in question was often left unlocked, or even that a room had just been painted and a window was left open to air out the room, etc. Just random thoughts.

Yes, I agree about the enigma of the allegedly open window/unlocked door, it kind of screams 'insider', especially since there was no sign of robbery. But I was wondering, why wouldn't an insider try to disguise the deaths as robbery gone violent, rather than double suicide or murder suicide?

 

[deugirtni]

...
How do I get max volume on my computer to be louder? I can't hear stuff that some of you can. (Sooo frustrating).
....
Deugirtni I would appreciate if you would post what you heard. Another member (Number8) posted what they heard in post #143.

"Before the news conference started I could hear (who i assume was) Hank Idsinga chatting in the background with the press and talking about how their initial M/S theory didn't hinder the investigation. He said that since they "have all evidence", it's ok/normal to change their minds over the course of the investigation."

It sounds like Insp. Idsinga, being well aware of the criticism (and evidence) of their wrong theory in determining M/S, realizes that their mistake can't be brushed off as Susan Gomes did in her presser. He didn't admit outright that they made a mistake, but he didn't deny it, which is a wise decision and actually promotes confidence in their current investigation. JMO

I used earphones which I snatched from one of the gamers in my house, which has its own volume control.. so my laptop volume is turned up to max, then the mp4 player and/or youtube is turned up to max, and then I can also adjust it again from the headset to super loud. (Youtube also allows you to speed it up or slow it down, which can sometimes make it easier to catch exact wording if it's difficult.)

During the 'live' broadcast, you could hear much more because it was live and pretty much ongoing for what seemed like quite awhile from the time the mics started recording until the time the conference started, whereas this recorded portion on youtube only includes a reduced amount of the time leading up to the press conference starting.

What I can hear from this reduced portion, the voice can clearly be identified (by me) as Idsinga's, but not sure who exactly he was speaking to.. personally I doubt if it was the press, and I think it was more likely to have been other TPS personnel of some level, or perhaps one of their legal reps:

What I hear, but I can't make out all of it, sorry, maybe someone else here can do better, or recorded more of the beginning portion of the live conference?:

"The relationship between the police and the family, this statement without ??? by police alone, they would've had to... perhaps OF the Shermans to uh read the statement which was shown to them prior to it being written, so this would be a joint statement, and whatever's going to be read today, the Sherman family would certainly be aware of what's being said."

The introducer then says '10 seconds'.. and *just* before he starts his intro after the 10 seconds, Idsinga then says still in the background, .. 'ORrr...' (and he keeps talking in the background while the introducer is intro'ing Idsinga, but I can't hear what he's saying as the announcer is louder and overtakes Idsinga's convo).

 

[deugirtni]

...
I also didn't hear the question that Insp. Idsinga answered by saying that "No investigation is perfect--I'll never make that claim, but homicide detectives were present at the scene and have been working diligently ever since." I am guessing that the question referred to TPS's initial statements from the crime scene that suggested M/S? Can anyone hear that question? ...

Reporter is kind of not being clear, and reporters are talking over one another, but he seems to say something like.. "can you reassure the public that this was done professionally by professionals. You didn't miss... as far as you know, there's nothing missed in this case?"

Idsinga: Well as you know, no one investigation is perfect, I'll never make that claim, uh, but I will say that the Homicide Squad from the TPS were present at the scene, uh, the night that the uh, victims were found, and have been working on it diligently ever since.

 

[deugirtni]

Yes, I agree about the enigma of the allegedly open window/unlocked door, it kind of screams 'insider', especially since there was no sign of robbery. But I was wondering, why wouldn't an insider try to disguise the deaths as robbery gone violent, rather than double suicide or murder suicide?

No idea? We'd need to get inside the sick person's head who did this? But seems to me that the family objected to having their father accused of murder.. but maybe not so much that the couple could've committed suicide.. but I could be wrong on that? Maybe they hoped it would be seen instead as double suicide, so that no investigation into any of the possible POIs would be necessary. That is however, impossible to really imagine, considering H's facial injuries, as well as the method of death. Unless as has earlier been speculated, there may have been a (bogus) suicide note left, which we have not heard about yet? I can't otherwise imagine why TPS would have thought for even a minute why these deaths would've involved suicide as any part of it.

 

[human]

If the home didn't have a security system and now we learn that a door was left unlocked and a window open, it seems the killer(s) had no issues with entering the home, and it is a moot point that there was no evidence of forced entry.

Maybe more interesting however.. is that a person with no knowledge of the Shermans, say a thief, or just a random nutcase killer, or a home invasion perp.. they would be probably more likely to do something like what had previously been done, such as break in through a skylight, or just bust a door down, rather than going around and checking all the doors and windows to see if one might have been left open. But someone with personal and current knowledge of the Shermans may have been well aware of the peculiarities of the Shermans and may have known that the door in question was often left unlocked, or even that a room had just been painted and a window was left open to air out the room, etc. Just random thoughts.

who would ever dream in this day and age that a billionaire had left the home so open.

I wonder who did the work on the house

 

[deugirtni]

who would ever dream in this day and age that a billionaire had left the home so open.

I wonder who did the work on the house

It would be interesting to know if, at the time of their skylight break-in, they also left that door unlocked? Maybe they figured that whoever might break in, will get in regardless? Maybe also they wanted to leave it open regularly so their various 'service providers' could get in, even if the couple were running late, and they didn't necessarily want to give them a key? I used to be very trusting like that too, never worried about locking my house or my vehicle.. but then when stuff happens, that tune changes pretty fast.

 

[casesensitive]

I have to question if it's true that the Sherman's were broken into a year before their murders. I can't fathom that they would not be emotionally affected with the normal reaction of feeling violated, let alone fearing such a threat to their security at home. Wouldn't they insure that home security was a top priority after that kind of occurrence? It doesn't make sense to me that they would continue to leave a door unlocked, and have no full outdoor nor indoor surveillance cameras that were activated.

 

[William_60]

To me what is significant, if there is a relationship between how the bodies were posed and the sculptures, is the fact that those sculptures were likely seen by the perpetrators previously. I am starting to lean more heavily to someone who was close enough to the deceased, to have developed a negative opinion on those sculptures, and likely expressed that opinion to the deceased at one time.

Something like
"........those are ugly, why don't you throw them out?"........."But dear, both of us like them, in fact Barry thinks they look just like us."

Now the similarities between the sculptures and the posing may be coincidental, and too much significance is maybe given to the commonalities. When there is a dearth of information, there is a tendency to grasp at straws so to speak.

However, as I have always believed the staging of the bodies was significant to their deaths, then likely there is a relationship between the sculptures and the deaths.

Good post. I too, feel this murder was conducted by someone who knew the family intimately and possibly related.

There’s no substitute for facts but the dearth of information, I think, has sharpened the focus of many here. Not sure if it’s sharpened mine, but hey, I can hope!

I think it’s created a guard rail of sorts against jumping too far in any direction. JMO.

Just catching up and it appears I’ll have many more good posts to read. Have to get Donovan’s book...

And beauty is in the eye of the beholder but those sculptures wouldn’t be welcome in or around my home. Good Lord...

I digress, apologies Windsor, just excited to be back and hearing some of optimism from police, however cautious, is great.

 

[nuff]

Yes, I agree about the enigma of the allegedly open window/unlocked door, it kind of screams 'insider', especially since there was no sign of robbery. But I was wondering, why wouldn't an insider try to disguise the deaths as robbery gone violent, rather than double suicide or murder suicide?

We don't know that the perpetrators actually meant the staging to disguise the deaths as S-S or M-S -- that was all after the fact speculation. It's possible that whoever did this was so motivated by hatred that they intended the killings to appear as exactly what they were, murder, with the positioning of the bodies a gruesome sick reference to those nasty sculptures as an afterthought.

 

[deugirtni]

Does anyone happen to know what the wall was like which was at the end of the pool room in the basement just in front of where the bodies were located? ie concrete? painted white? drywall? glass block? Also, can anyone get a sense of how far away the wall would be from the pool railing? (It looks kind of close, but maybe in reality it was quite far away?) I have always wondered, given the positioning of the bodies, if the perps may have made the couple watch something (projected onto the blank wall in front of them - if it was a blank wall?) before killing them. ie pictures, a video, someone from a remote location live streaming a message to them which the perp(s) played for them?

I don't know anything about AV equipment, but i know it doesn't take much to plug in a laptop and work it with a portable projector and aim it at a blank wall to show what's wanted to be shown.. or a live streaming thing projected onto the wall, etc.

Crazy idea, I know, but it's weird to me that the couple was facing opposite of the pool, when it seems it would've been much easier for the perp(s) to 'seat' them the opposite way, on the ledge with legs dangling into the pool.

 

[dotr]

WARMINGTON: 'Window was left open' as Sherman home painted
"As Idsinga said, someone may think something they know is not a big deal — but it could be.

“We have been given a lot of great information from a lot of sources,” said Idsinga.

He wants more.

Small details — like there were professional painters in that house or that a window was open — only help."

Barry and Honey Sherman were found slain in their Old Colony Rd. mansion on Dec. 15, 2017.
"It puts more people in that house around the time, which includes cleaning professionals and real estate people.

It’s not saying they are suspects, but those who can assist police with information few others could.

“The window was left open to clear the smell of the paint from the area,” explained a family friend.

Could that detail show an entry or exit point in a home showing no forced entry?

Could information that there was also a door “never locked” mean there was another entrance or exit possibility?

New details like that offer a glimpse into a challenging police investigation.

It’s one Toronto’s biggest ever."
Six weeks later, police changed their minds but it has taken two years for the trust to rebuild with the four Sherman children.

Idsinga made that happen — as he did with the gay community in the originally troubled investigation into the McArthur serial murder case.

Idsinga turned that around and made an arrest."

"He’s hoping for a repeat, and referenced how the Glen Davis murder took four years to solve as an example to show that two years is nothing to fear.

Wealthy philanthropist Davis was murdered by a hitman hired by godson Marshall Ross."

Glen Davis’s godson writes a murderous end to family saga | The Star
Dec 19 2011