Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #14

[Lexiintoronto]

Some discussion here..rbsbm, maybe a simple OY! would have sufficed ! lol, imo.
Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #13

This still baffles me, mainly because the Star published what a trespasser did and saw in the home.

It was scheduled for demolition, but it was private property. If this guy breaks into JS’s home, will the Star write about what he finds?

At the same time, I’m a huge hypocrite because I’m interested in everything he saw in the home. :/

 

[casesensitive]

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

Have we had this?

What he found on the first floor, and then the second, surprised him. He wrote in his post:

“I figured a lot of stuff would have been taken out by Toronto Police, sent to an auction house or saved by family members, but that wasn’t really the case,” the man recalls. “There was stuff everywhere, furniture, clothes, artwork, books, personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased, the works. Pretty much every room I stepped into had me saying ‘jesus f--- christ’ out loud to myself, wondering what I was getting myself into.”

Yes, From Germany, we saw this earlier. Considering that Toronto police, and then the private team spent many weeks between them collecting evidence, I doubt anything left behind was deemed important, despite an urban explorer thinking otherwise.

The Sherman kids also spent days selecting meaningful and special items, as well as items worthy for donation. Although they rejected a great deal of items that could have been donated, I suspect that they took what they could remove themselves (eg clothes) and rejected the thought of having anyone else entering their family home to retrieve any other items of value.

I can understand where they were coming from. Their parents had given more than enough in donations over many years, and the "donations" stopped with their parent's personal contents from their home. This was not an estate auction type of scenario where the proceeds go to charity--this was a nightmare, double murder crime scene.

I assume that it was an emotional decision on their part to leave the rest to be demolished with the house, and honestly, I don't blame them for doing it. jmo

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Yes, From Germany, we saw this earlier. Considering that Toronto police, and then the private team spent many weeks between them collecting evidence, I doubt anything left behind was deemed important, despite an urban explorer thinking otherwise.

The Sherman kids also spent days selecting meaningful and special items, as well as items worthy for donation. Although they rejected a great deal of items that could have been donated, I suspect that they took what they could remove themselves (eg clothes) and rejected the thought of having anyone else entering their family home to retrieve any other items of value.

I can understand where they were coming from. Their parents had given more than enough in donations over many years, and the "donations" stopped with their parent's personal contents from their home. This was not an estate auction type of scenario where the proceeds go to charity--this was a nightmare, double murder crime scene.

I assume that it was an emotional decision on their part to leave the rest to be demolished with the house, and honestly, I don't blame them for doing it. jmo

"Personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased" - that astonished me already. But maybe, all these items are since the murder burdened with memories, which nobody liked to have.

 

[casesensitive]

"Personal letters, memos, photos of the deceased" - that astonished me already. But maybe, all these items are since the murder burdened with memories, which nobody liked to have.

Photos of their parents that were left behind could have been taken by the kids who have the originals, or already have copies. Personal letters from friends to their parents and memos (what ever that means) are not sentimental keepsakes for children imo.

I won't judge Barry and Honey's children's grief based on what an urban explorer found left in their home. I like to give people the benefit of doubt, and I don't doubt that the majority of the Sherman kids were in genuine grief when they selected things of their parents that had sentimental value.

 

[MomBoucher]

Photos of their parents that were left behind could have been taken by the kids who have the originals, or already have copies. Personal letters from friends to their parents and memos (what ever that means) are not sentimental keepsakes for children imo.

I won't judge Barry and Honey's children's grief based on what an urban explorer found left in their home. I like to give people the benefit of doubt, and I don't doubt that the majority of the Sherman kids were in genuine grief when they selected things of their parents that had sentimental value.

As per this article from the NP everything of significant value was removed from the house. (except the weird Eaton Statues)
Amid quiet from high-profile murder probes, family takes back house where Shermans died | National Post

You can see many belonging still in the house as it's partially destroyed
https://www.cp24.com/news/demolitio...ney-and-barry-sherman-were-murdered-1.4410173

It's odd that so many sentimental pieces were destroyed along with the house but it's also odd that the house was destroyed.
Barry designed the house. It's was an architectural masterpiece - Yes, dated but still a work of art. For all his success Barry was secretly a true renaissance man. His involvement with the producer of Justin's Bieber's wife's fattest & least talented uncle was no haphazard anomaly but rather a calculated move to entree into the artistic world of film-making.

I'm expecting an update from Donovan regarding his Bi-Annual Freedom-of-Information-Request where he grills the lead detective on the case.
I'm expecting his next round of questions to include questions about the DNA, as well as questions about the person who TPS have targetted as their suspect.
Star ace says cops see suspect in murder of Barry and Honey

I'm not sure if people are up to date on the use of Familiar DNA but it's being widely used in the US with great results. US police were able to solve several crimes involving suspects who were completely off the radar.
Raymond 'DJ Freez' Rowe pleads guilty to raping, murdering Christy Mirack in 1992
DNA profiles from ancestry websites helped identify the Golden State Killer suspect

Whoever strangled and moved Honey and Barry's bodies left familiar DNA at the scene. Both on their necks as well as underarms as they dragged the bodies to the basement and posed them in unnatural positions mimicking the Eaton statues ahead of a macabre photo shoots. There were 2 photoshoots. 1 by the killers, and 1 by the police. If you read Kevin's book he mentions a secret informant (retired police detective) that he's working with. He asks his secret informant about the bodies being in state of repose ........the response from the detective is ....."What the eff is repose mean".
Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

Back to the house. I contend that the house was destroyed along with the contents to eradicate any evidence left behind.

 

[JayFriend]

Still looking to make money.
Apotex hands Ottawa two million dosages of hydroxychloroquine

 

[dotr]

Still looking to make money.
Apotex hands Ottawa two million dosages of hydroxychloroquine

They are also donating...
''Apotex, in recent weeks, shifted production priorities to produce more hydroxychloroquine. The donation will not impact anyone who is currently being treated with the drug.

“Our goal from the outset has been to protect the supply of this product for patients currently using it for approved indications,” Apotex president and CEO Jeff Watson said in a news release. “At the same time, we recognize the importance of building a clinical profile of this medicine to determine its efficacy in treating COVID-19, and we are fortunate to be able to meet both needs.”

Researchers can contact Apotex if they require a supply of hydroxychloroquine at [email protected].''

 

[dotr]

Unrelated to the Sherman case, but noting that hit-men flying in and out of the country to (allegedly) commit a murder, is not out of the realm of possibility....fwiw, speculation, imo.
Saudi Crown prince sent hit squad to Canada to kill former spy, lawsuit claims
August 6, 2020
''TORONTO -- The crown prince of Saudi Arabia sent a hit squad to Canada in an effort to hunt down and kill a former top intelligence official who knows too much, a civil suit filed Thursday in court in the United States asserts.

The 106-page unproven complaint, which reads like a spy thriller, accuses Mohammed bin Salman of orchestrating attempts to silence Saad Aljabri, a permanent resident of Canada''

 

[Arnie M]

.
I keep coming back to the most obvious conclusion that whoever killed them would have known that the home was not full of security cameras ... and the one camera that was there , was not in working condition .

I consider that is information that very few people would know about.

And if someone did know it .... they would still not know how many neighborhood cameras may have captured them.

So that leaves 2 possibilities .... an "insider" who knew everything about the house .... or the original theory that it was MS

 

[WINDSOR]

.
I keep coming back to the most obvious conclusion that whoever killed them would have known that the home was not full of security cameras ... and the one camera that was there , was not in working condition .

I consider that is information that very few people would know about.

And if someone did know it .... they would still not know how many neighborhood cameras may have captured them.

So that leaves 2 possibilities .... an "insider" who knew everything about the house .... or the original theory that it was MS

Arnie, one other possibility. The perps did not care if the cameras were working, as they were disguised well enough to avoid identification.

I understand that some people are leaning to the 'insider' theory, but the latest news about the Saudi's assassination squad shows what is possible.

I think that professional killers will always assume that working cameras will be present, the cameras either have to be defeated, or adequate disguises will be needed.

 

[Arnie M]

Arnie, one other possibility. The perps did not care if the cameras were working, as they were disguised well enough to avoid identification.

I understand that some people are leaning to the 'insider' theory, but the latest news about the Saudi's assassination squad shows what is possible.

I think that professional killers will always assume that working cameras will be present, the cameras either have to be defeated, or adequate disguises will be needed.

Good point WINDSOR but when I considered it I think the killer sure went to a lot of unnecessary work by doing everything at the house

All while dressed in head-to-toe disguise .... while waiting for Sherman's to come home ..... killer not knowing if he had set off a silent security alarm and police may be on the way .

We must remember HS & BS came home separately and the presumed hired killer would not know the exact arrival times ..... it requires lots of lurking in the shadows.

Most (professional) killers would never subject themselves to such exposure .... they prefer quick and easy and then disappear .

However , in agreement with your post it may have been a hired outsider who was told to do it in the home and "stage the scene" to make it "look like" a murder-suicide .... and that is pretty much is what police are saying (staged scene)

But it still requires a tremendous amount of "insider information" so the killer(s) knew the security system was inoperable .... because lets face it ... the killer (in full disguise) would never "stage" a murder-suicide if all of it was captured on camera.

I realize I am going in circles but I cannot escape the thought that someone with intimate knowledge of the home was involved .... at least in the planning of it ...... and who might that be ??? .... and who benefits in the end ??? ... and why both of them killed ??

If BS had business enemies there is no motive to also kill his wife ... it just doesn't add up to me unless the killer benefits by having them both eliminated.

 

[dotr]

Regarding cctv at the Sherman house (apparently there was none) and elsewhere in the neighbourhood, not that this is likely, but there are ways around it, fwiw, imo, speculation.
How to hack your face to dodge the rise of facial recognition tech
''Techniques for fooling FR can be roughly divided into two categories: occlusion or confusion.

Occlusion techniques work by physically hiding facial features so the camera simply can’t see them. How successful these methods are will depend on which bits of your face are hidden and how well hidden they are.
For example, a balaclava which leaves the most important facial features exposed – the eyes, the mouth, the nose – may not actually do much to prevent a person from being identified. Researchers have found that by using a deep learning framework trained on 14 key facial points, they were able to accurately identify partially-occluded faces most of the time. This includes wearing glasses, scarves, hats or fake beards,

If you really want to take it to the extreme you can skip the ski mask and go straight to a 3D-printed model of someone else's face.''
''If makeup and LEDs are about disguise, HyperFace camouflage is about distraction. Instead of trying to stop the system from detecting a face at all, the goal is to overwhelm it by making it see way, way too many faces. The pattern can be printed onto scarves or earrings, or anything which can be worn close to a person's real face''.

 

[MistyWaters]

Arnie, one other possibility. The perps did not care if the cameras were working, as they were disguised well enough to avoid identification.

I understand that some people are leaning to the 'insider' theory, but the latest news about the Saudi's assassination squad shows what is possible.

I think that professional killers will always assume that working cameras will be present, the cameras either have to be defeated, or adequate disguises will be needed.

Another possibility, the killer toured the home during the open house or a real estate showing and checked out the security system. However I think there’s very few private dwellings with security cameras inside, recording the movements of the homeowners. Other than reason to check out the activities of nannies or house cleaners, what would be the point? Most security systems are focused on entrances and windows as a safeguard against break-ins so if a disguise was used, chances are it would only be required upon entering and exit.

 

[deugirtni]

OTOH they had listed their home for sale .. it wouldn't be unthinkable that they may have installed cameras inside due to potential theft concerns.. it's a risk I sure wouldn't have been willing to take if I had plans to murder these billionaires. And cams aren't always visible. JMO.

 

[MistyWaters]

OTOH they had listed their home for sale .. it wouldn't be unthinkable that they may have installed cameras inside due to potential theft concerns.. it's a risk I sure wouldn't have been willing to take if I had plans to murder these billionaires. And cams aren't always visible. JMO.

I thought the real estate photos looked more like a semi-bland home that had been staged for showings rather than an occupied dwelling. So I’ve always had a feeling the Sherman’s had moved out all their valued personal possessions and intended to fully relocate upon their return from Florida in January iirc. Maybe somebody was temporarily living in their condo so they hadn’t moved yet, just guessing. But considering their wealth, living in a listed home makes no rational sense whatsoever IMO.

This has always reminded me of the Calgary triple Likeness/oBrien murders - the culprit knew they were moving soon and so time became of the essence to him. Regarding the Shermans, it likely would’ve been to a place with much greater CCTV security, especially if their condo was intended to be their home until the construction of the new house was completed.

 

[ldlager]

As per this article from the NP everything of significant value was removed from the house. (except the weird Eaton Statues)
Amid quiet from high-profile murder probes, family takes back house where Shermans died | National Post

You can see many belonging still in the house as it's partially destroyed
Demolition begins on home where Honey and Barry Sherman were murdered

It's odd that so many sentimental pieces were destroyed along with the house but it's also odd that the house was destroyed.
Barry designed the house. It's was an architectural masterpiece - Yes, dated but still a work of art. For all his success Barry was secretly a true renaissance man. His involvement with the producer of Justin's Bieber's wife's fattest & least talented uncle was no haphazard anomaly but rather a calculated move to entree into the artistic world of film-making.

I'm expecting an update from Donovan regarding his Bi-Annual Freedom-of-Information-Request where he grills the lead detective on the case.
I'm expecting his next round of questions to include questions about the DNA, as well as questions about the person who TPS have targetted as their suspect.
Star ace says cops see suspect in murder of Barry and Honey

I'm not sure if people are up to date on the use of Familiar DNA but it's being widely used in the US with great results. US police were able to solve several crimes involving suspects who were completely off the radar.
Raymond 'DJ Freez' Rowe pleads guilty to raping, murdering Christy Mirack in 1992
DNA profiles from ancestry websites helped identify the Golden State Killer suspect

Whoever strangled and moved Honey and Barry's bodies left familiar DNA at the scene. Both on their necks as well as underarms as they dragged the bodies to the basement and posed them in unnatural positions mimicking the Eaton statues ahead of a macabre photo shoots. There were 2 photoshoots. 1 by the killers, and 1 by the police. If you read Kevin's book he mentions a secret informant (retired police detective) that he's working with. He asks his secret informant about the bodies being in state of repose ........the response from the detective is ....."What the eff is repose mean".
Barry and Honey Sherman’s bodies were found posed like the sculptures in their basement

Back to the house. I contend that the house was destroyed along with the contents to eradicate any evidence left behind.

According to the PI team hired by Greenspan, LE’s work collecting DNA and trace evidence was shoddy, and they left hair and other samples uncollected. We don’t know if LE obtained any useful DNA evidence. Familial DNA may only be of value if the killers left DNA traces. Gloves and other protective clothing would minimize the likelihood of then leaving trace evidence. And if they were pros, the chance of them leaving evidence is probably greatly dismissed. Or maybe the killers just didn’t care.
We don’t know if the killers took pictures or not, have you obtained this information somewhere?

 

[Kerry Winter]

Imminent arrest of the multiple murderers.....NOT!
LMAO

 

[WINDSOR]

Imminent arrest of the multiple murderers.....NOT!
LMAO

Kerry, did someone imply an imminent arrest? I was not aware of that. Can you clarify?

IIRC you were pretty sure it was a murder-suicide, initiated by Barry, is that still your belief?

 

[Tobiano8th]

to me the killing was a family member themselves or a professional hired by family member, enemy/grudge or some motive that very few people know about (selling pharmaceuticals in lawless countries and god knows who you are dealing with.. doesn't mean BS was complicit. see Edmond Safra death in Monte Carlo. he thought it was the Russian mafia but Mr Safra had done nothing wrong.............. basically i don't think it was someone outside family who was upset at BS AND did it themselves. and i'm guessing a really good professional could figure out the security was very shoddy without going to a real estate showing (i could be wrong_)

 

[Tobiano8th]

i'm not KW but i will comment on the murder-suicide angle myself

it seems to me almost inconceivable that the police got it WRONG for 6 weeks and overlooked all the common sense evidence that suggested it was M/M....... and there seems to be no credible suggestion that the police pretended it was M/S to somehow trick the M/M perpetrator into a false step (that sounds like columbo)

maybe, there is a 3rd explanation......... maybe the evidence in the home has not been presented properly/fully. perhaps for BS to have done the M/S is not as difficult as people suggest.

i'm being devils advocate as it doesn't seem reasonable it was M/S... but to me, it is just as inconceivable that the police screwed it up that badly for 6 weeks, especially when you'd think caution would have the smart strategy. maybe they've been to too many situations like that where it was M/S that it's an automatic reaction. but not 2 weeks later when people are saying it's absurd. maybe they'd botched it so badly by then that they were shell-shocked and said nothing.

anyway, either shocking incompetence by TPD or maybe it was M/S....... if they were poor immigrants, it would be still be M/S today