CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #17

[juli99]

You're very welcome. I'm new here, so I'm not really sure about the rules and parameters. Saw the post from the mod but could not edit a prior post (if the mod's message even applied to me-not sure) If anyone can point me to the best guidelines, I would greatly appreciate it. Definitely wanting to follow the rules.

In terms of the 60 min interview, on its face and in KD's book it doesn't look bad to me personally. People say it was embarrassing to BS, but that does not come across to me. I guess it depends on who you believe regarding this drug but also, these drugs have grey areas of interpretation and imo as someone who takes several prescribed pills daily, there are certainly arguments for me taking them either way in terms of side effects, risk and impact. Perhaps that is the case here.

As KD outlines in greater detail, Dr. Nancy O. had the perspective it had potentially dangerous aspects, while BS is portrayed in the book as wanting to produce this not that profitable drug because it would save lives of people with a relatively rare condition and in BS's view, "no one else will" make the drug. The voicemail in the 60 Minutes clip isn't out of bounds legally, it seems. She did sign a confidentiality agreement, although I respect her wanting to warn patients. People should attack confidentiality agreements as a concept. There should be truth and accountability for all, and issues like this being condensed to a TV interview are not a best practice for truly understanding the scientific intricacies of prescription meds.

JMO as a patient taking multiple pills with severe and life-altering effects both good and bad (although I don't and have never taken the one in play in this interview).

Also of note in this chapter of KD's book is that BS would reportedly sometimes send legal briefs or work he was particularly proud of to daughter Alex. It was a great detail.

I think the mod's post was directed at me as one of my posts was deleted. I know the rules, I've just been away for a while and forgot. As long as you stick to mainstream media articles/video about the case, the book, etc. you will be fine.

 

[juli99]

You're very welcome. I'm new here, so I'm not really sure about the rules and parameters. Saw the post from the mod but could not edit a prior post (if the mod's message even applied to me-not sure) If anyone can point me to the best guidelines, I would greatly appreciate it. Definitely wanting to follow the rules.

In terms of the 60 min interview, on its face and in KD's book it doesn't look bad to me personally. People say it was embarrassing to BS, but that does not come across to me. I guess it depends on who you believe regarding this drug but also, these drugs have grey areas of interpretation and imo as someone who takes several prescribed pills daily, there are certainly arguments for me taking them either way in terms of side effects, risk and impact. Perhaps that is the case here.

As KD outlines in greater detail, Dr. Nancy O. had the perspective it had potentially dangerous aspects, while BS is portrayed in the book as wanting to produce this not that profitable drug because it would save lives of people with a relatively rare condition and in BS's view, "no one else will" make the drug. The voicemail in the 60 Minutes clip isn't out of bounds legally, it seems. She did sign a confidentiality agreement, although I respect her wanting to warn patients. People should attack confidentiality agreements as a concept. There should be truth and accountability for all, and issues like this being condensed to a TV interview are not a best practice for truly understanding the scientific intricacies of prescription meds.

JMO as a patient taking multiple pills with severe and life-altering effects both good and bad (although I don't and have never taken the one in play in this interview).

Also of note in this chapter of KD's book is that BS would reportedly sometimes send legal briefs or work he was particularly proud of to daughter Alex. It was a great detail.

I think the mod's post was directed at me as one of my posts was deleted. I know the rules, I've just been away for a while and forgot. As long as you stick to mainstream media articles/video about the case, the book, etc. you will be fine.

 

[Window21]

I think the mod's post was directed at me as one of my posts was deleted.

Or me because I got deleted as well. I answered your question and give the ages of the children and included a link to the source and I got a message saying it wasn't mainstream media. I have since tried to find a bulletin on what the mods consider MSM and I can't find anything. I thought my source was good, but I guess not.

 

[juli99]

Or me because I got deleted as well. I answered your question and give the ages of the children and included a link to the source and I got a message saying it wasn't mainstream media. I have since tried to find a bulletin on what the mods consider MSM and I can't find anything. I thought my source was good, but I guess not.

It was probably just because you were answering the question I asked, which had another part associated with it that was likely the issue.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

You're very welcome. I'm new here, so I'm not really sure about the rules and parameters. Saw the post from the mod but could not edit a prior post (if the mod's message even applied to me-not sure) If anyone can point me to the best guidelines, I would greatly appreciate it. Definitely wanting to follow the rules.

In terms of the 60 min interview, on its face and in KD's book it doesn't look bad to me personally. People say it was embarrassing to BS, but that does not come across to me. I guess it depends on who you believe regarding this drug but also, these drugs have grey areas of interpretation and imo as someone who takes several prescribed pills daily, there are certainly arguments for me taking them either way in terms of side effects, risk and impact. Perhaps that is the case here.

As KD outlines in greater detail, Dr. Nancy O. had the perspective it had potentially dangerous aspects, while BS is portrayed in the book as wanting to produce this not that profitable drug because it would save lives of people with a relatively rare condition and in BS's view, "no one else will" make the drug. The voicemail in the 60 Minutes clip isn't out of bounds legally, it seems. She did sign a confidentiality agreement, although I respect her wanting to warn patients. People should attack confidentiality agreements as a concept. There should be truth and accountability for all, and issues like this being condensed to a TV interview are not a best practice for truly understanding the scientific intricacies of prescription meds.

JMO as a patient taking multiple pills with severe and life-altering effects both good and bad (although I don't and have never taken the one in play in this interview).

Also of note in this chapter of KD's book is that BS would reportedly sometimes send legal briefs or work he was particularly proud of to daughter Alex. It was a great detail.

(The TOS can be found here: The Rules

I try to keep them in mind but occasionally get it wrong.)

I see his good side, but I view the Dr. Olivieri issue differently. Her primary oath is to her licensing body as a doctor. She agreed that she shouldn’t have signed the confidentiality agreement with Apotex, but ethically she was right in speaking up and breaking it, imo.

If you sit down with anyone from 60 minutes, expect that they know the answers to their questions before they ask you and that they have the proof to back it up. Barry was either unprepared or deliberately trying to mislead Leslie Stahl, imo.

I’m interested that he was trying to create a drug, and his last project was also trying to create a new medication.

I’d love to see all of Barry’s interview. I wish he had done a follow-up or done more interviews because he was fascinating. Maybe his family has videos where he discusses going from an MIT-educated rocket scientist with a patent in stabilizing satellites to creating Apotex.

He was unusually brilliant.

 

[newclues]

There is no requirement for AP to have told JS about the murder plan, if there was one. Or vice versa. MOO

It is interesting that BS had MD as a business partner and JS has AP as a business partner. It also looked like BS may not have liked AP and JS did not like FD. After BS's murder, it looks like FD has lost and AP has won.

 

[juli99]

(The TOS can be found here: The Rules

I try to keep them in mind but occasionally get it wrong.)

I see his good side, but I view the Dr. Olivieri issue differently. Her primary oath is to her licensing body as a doctor. She agreed that she shouldn’t have signed the confidentiality agreement with Apotex, but ethically she was right in speaking up and breaking it, imo.

If you sit down with anyone from 60 minutes, expect that they know the answers to their questions before they ask you and that they have the proof to back it up. Barry was either unprepared or deliberately trying to mislead Leslie Stahl, imo.

I’m interested that he was trying to create a drug, and his last project was also trying to create a new medication.

I’d love to see all of Barry’s interview. I wish he had done a follow-up or done more interviews because he was fascinating. Maybe his family has videos where he discusses going from an MIT-educated rocket scientist with a patent in stabilizing satellites to creating Apotex.

He was unusually brilliant.

I agree, he is fascinating. From descriptions I had pictured him as socially awkward but in this video I feel like he was very calculating with his social interactions. I love how Leslie called him out, saying that they are press there to investigate, not his friend.

 

[newclues]

It is interesting that BS had MD as a business partner and JS has AP as a business partner. It also looked like BS may not have liked AP and JS did not like FD. After BS's murder, it looks like FD has lost and AP has won.

FD (not MD) above

 

[lukeonetwo]

(The TOS can be found here: The Rules

I try to keep them in mind but occasionally get it wrong.)

I see his good side, but I view the Dr. Olivieri issue differently. Her primary oath is to her licensing body as a doctor. She agreed that she shouldn’t have signed the confidentiality agreement with Apotex, but ethically she was right in speaking up and breaking it, imo.

If you sit down with anyone from 60 minutes, expect that they know the answers to their questions before they ask you and that they have the proof to back it up. Barry was either unprepared or deliberately trying to mislead Leslie Stahl, imo.

I’m interested that he was trying to create a drug, and his last project was also trying to create a new medication.

I’d love to see all of Barry’s interview. I wish he had done a follow-up or done more interviews because he was fascinating. Maybe his family has videos where he discusses going from an MIT-educated rocket scientist with a patent in stabilizing satellites to creating Apotex.

He was unusually brilliant.

Thanks for the guidance on the rules. Much appreciated.

Leslie Stahl was/is certainly a force to be reckoned with!

 

[dotr]

Jan 26 2022
Detectives are probing Sherman’s estate plans for murder clues | The Star
''The Toronto Star has won court-approved access to police investigative documents in the now four-year-old Barry and Honey Sherman murder case, and the information is being released at intervals, not all at once. Last week, we reported that Barry Sherman told a family member before he died that he owed $1 billion and was not going to pay it back. In today’s instalment, the Star reveals that homicide detectives have dug into Barry’s estate planning — who would receive his fortune if both he and Honey were dead.''
..
''In Barry Sherman’s office at Apotex in mid-December 2017, homicide detectives discovered every surface — desk, tables, couches, chairs, even parts of the floor — awash in papers. The brilliant scientist, with a PhD before he was 25, was a visual person — he wanted his tasks front and centre. Among the stacks of generic drug documents and lawsuits, police also found an “autobiography” Barry was writing and a photograph of Honey, Barry and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. In one pile, detectives spotted a copy of an airplane ticket Barry had purchased for a Dec. 24 flight to Fort Lauderdale to join Honey for a holiday break. These details and more are contained in court documents recently released following a Toronto Star challenge.''

What detectives did not find in the Sherman office or their home was the last will and testament for either of the Shermans. For reasons still sealed by a judge’s order, police wanted to know the estate planning details for the murdered couple, and they reached out to people who knew the Shermans for assistance.''

 

[juli99]

Same article as above I believe, but without a paywall:

Detectives are probing Sherman’s estate plans for murder clues - Toronto News Live

"No will has ever been found for Honey, although the Star interviewed a Honey confidant who says Honey told her three weeks before her death that she had “updated” her will at a law firm."

"Police then noted Barry’s wishes once Honey was no longer alive: “On Honey Sherman’s death, the remainder of the estate will then be divided equally for each child of Bernard Sherman,” according to police documents, prepared Jan. 18. , 2018, after a detective read the wills."

If HS really had a will at a lawyer's office, surely that lawyer would have come forward. I also find it odd that there was mention of what would happen to the estate in BS will if HS died. Why wouldn't he have had her make her own will? Is it possible that HS thought she had a will, but it was just BS adding her to his? Makes no sense to me.

 

[ldlager]

Same article as above I believe, but without a paywall:

Detectives are probing Sherman’s estate plans for murder clues - Toronto News Live

"No will has ever been found for Honey, although the Star interviewed a Honey confidant who says Honey told her three weeks before her death that she had “updated” her will at a law firm."

"Police then noted Barry’s wishes once Honey was no longer alive: “On Honey Sherman’s death, the remainder of the estate will then be divided equally for each child of Bernard Sherman,” according to police documents, prepared Jan. 18. , 2018, after a detective read the wills."

If HS really had a will at a lawyer's office, surely that lawyer would have come forward. I also find it odd that there was mention of what would happen to the estate in BS will if HS died. Why wouldn't he have had her make her own will? Is it possible that HS thought she had a will, but it was just BS adding her to his? Makes no sense to me.

Because BS's estate was essentially left in trust for use by HS while she was still alive, but once she was deceased the funds from his estate were to be disbursed to the 4 children. She was to be able to use the income from the estate while she was still alive. I believe this is fairly common practice

 

[ldlager]

From the same article
"....Eventually, police were given copies of Barry’s estate documents by Brad Krawczyk, Barry and Honey’s son-in-law. According to the newly-unsealed police documents, Brad “voluntarily provided” copies of Barry’s two wills to homicide detectives. Brad is married to Sherman daughter Alexandra, he was one of four estate trustees Barry had appointed to handle his affairs, and he works at Sherfam, Barry’s holding company...."

So we understand now that BK seemingly had ready access to BS's will. Did all Trustees?

 

[juli99]

Because BS's estate was essentially left in trust for use by HS while she was still alive, but once she was deceased the funds from his estate were to be disbursed to the 4 children. She was to be able to use the income from the estate while she was still alive. I believe this is fairly common practice

Ok, that makes sense. I guess they never expected her to die first? I'm the executor on an estate right now that did not have a will, and it automatically created numerous hassles. I'm just surprised with all BS legal acumen that he did not make sure she had her own will.

 

[ldlager]

From today's article:
"...Police refuse to say why they have included the Sherman estate information in their case. They have said, however, that they only include information in an ITO if it is important to the case. Police have also not said what the estate information is helping them search for...."

I would have thought it is fairly obvious why the police would be interested in reviewing the estate documents. Seems like what I would imagine is "normal procedure" in any homicide investigation. JMO

 

[JayFriend]

Reading KD's book and saw a 60 Minutes interview mentioned. This seems like it. Imo nothing to do with the case content-wise, but interesting to see BS. I believe BS appears around 8:20.

Late to the party because my email notifications stopped. That video looks like it was recorded on a VCR from a poor signal, or simulated to appear that way. It's curious 60 Minutes would not have it archived on line.

 

[dotr]

It seems to be an inordinate number of doctor visits, did BS think he was ill, was he in poor health, did something new pop up for HS?
Did somebody (the killer) think they were about to die or become infirm and would blow all the money on the new mansion, grandkids and BS' expensive hobby investments, not to mention a billion dollar debt?
Neither dying by strangulation or from a gunshot is an ''easy'' way to go, but assuming death by gun is less painful and quicker - but messier, is that why H&B were not shot, or the killer did not want to ''desecrate'' the bodies. Unless they wanted the Shermans to suffer?
Speculation, imo. rbbm.

Detectives are probing Sherman’s estate plans for murder clues | The Star
''With police earlier considering the possibility that the Shermans were depressed and either took their own lives, or one killed the other and then committed suicide, detectives obtained their medical records. They found no indication of depression, but did learn that since 2010 Honey saw 101 different doctors (friends called her the “bionic woman” because she battled through so many ailments) and Barry saw 20 different doctors over the same period.

Newly unsealed police interviews show that the four Sherman children told police they were closer with their father than their mother. An assistant to Honey spoke to police about the “tension between Honey and her children due to differing opinions and different lives.” The assistant also told police she had very recently “filled out a large and extensive medical questionnaire on Honey’s behalf.” No reason for this questionnaire is given in the police documents''

 

[Badgerette]

Life insurance medical questionnaire?

 

[Badgerette]

From the same article
"....Eventually, police were given copies of Barry’s estate documents by Brad Krawczyk, Barry and Honey’s son-in-law. According to the newly-unsealed police documents, Brad “voluntarily provided” copies of Barry’s two wills to homicide detectives. Brad is married to Sherman daughter Alexandra, he was one of four estate trustees Barry had appointed to handle his affairs, and he works at Sherfam, Barry’s holding company...."

So we understand now that BK seemingly had ready access to BS's will. Did all Trustees?

I work in finance and we often-I'd say 90% of the time have a copy of a client's will on file. And the trustees also (usually) have a copy...when a client passes away they are often the first to contact our office.

 

[juli99]

It seems to be an inordinate number of doctor visits, did BS think he was ill, was he in poor health, did something new pop up for HS?
Did somebody (the killer) think they were about to die or become infirm and would blow all the money on the new mansion, grandkids and BS' expensive hobby investments, not to mention a billion dollar debt?
Neither dying by strangulation or from a gunshot is an ''easy'' way to go, but assuming death by gun is less painful and quicker - but messier, is that why H&B were not shot, or the killer did not want to ''desecrate'' the bodies. Unless they wanted the Shermans to suffer?
Speculation, imo. rbbm.

Detectives are probing Sherman’s estate plans for murder clues | The Star
''With police earlier considering the possibility that the Shermans were depressed and either took their own lives, or one killed the other and then committed suicide, detectives obtained their medical records. They found no indication of depression, but did learn that since 2010 Honey saw 101 different doctors (friends called her the “bionic woman” because she battled through so many ailments) and Barry saw 20 different doctors over the same period.

Newly unsealed police interviews show that the four Sherman children told police they were closer with their father than their mother. An assistant to Honey spoke to police about the “tension between Honey and her children due to differing opinions and different lives.” The assistant also told police she had very recently “filled out a large and extensive medical questionnaire on Honey’s behalf.” No reason for this questionnaire is given in the police documents''

I thought the same thing, that is a lot of different doctors even for having medical problems. It can be a long wait to see specialists in Canada, I wonder if she was ever traveling to the US for medical care?