CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[MistyWaters]

How would Alex, just to use an example, know police were on the street? Unless she called a neighbour to check on them…maybe that neighbour who had the 911 call knew the Shermans?

Somewhat related is that KW said he heard ‘radio reports’ of a police car in Forest Hill after the bodies were found. From KD’s book:
View attachment 333603

It’s a small point, but KD said one police officer went Alex’s home in the evening to update them. I’ve never heard a radio report of a police car making a stop in a specific location in Toronto—there are police everywhere and they make stops all through their shifts.

ETA: Maybe the killer was listening to the police scanners on Friday. He possibly engineered the 911 call and wanted to hear police being called to respond to Old Colony. Part of this might be a disdain for the police, and things he did were to frustrate them.

Media reports indicate TPS converted to an encrypted communication system in 2015.
Police radio to go silent as Toronto cops move toward encrypted communications

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Media reports indicate TPS converted to an encrypted communication system in 2015.
Police radio to go silent as Toronto cops move toward encrypted communications

I believe it, and I think it makes sense. But after that that date they still had some unencrypted channels open. In March 2016 in the GTA a person stole a car with a child inside. They were chased on the highways and some of us followed along on the police scanners and documented the chase (some motorists joined in):
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...canner-alerts-7.224501/page-497#post-12422696

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3499902

 

[ldlager]

How would Alex, just to use an example, know police were on the street? Unless she called a neighbour to check on them…maybe that neighbour who had the 911 call knew the Shermans?

Somewhat related is that KW said he heard ‘radio reports’ of a police car in Forest Hill after the bodies were found. From KD’s book:
View attachment 333603

It’s a small point, but KD said one police officer went Alex’s home in the evening to update them. I’ve never heard a radio report of a police car making a stop in a specific location in Toronto—there are police everywhere and they make stops all through their shifts.

ETA: Maybe the killer was listening to the police scanners on Friday Thursday . He possibly engineered the 911 call and wanted to hear police being called to respond to Old Colony. Part of this might be a disdain for the police, and things he did were to frustrate them.

Yes that is what I meant. When I wrote "he/she" I was referring to the killer(s)

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

came across this older article, some details seem familiar, some not so much. I also am unsure of the accuracy of these details.

Who Killed the Billionaire Founder of a Generic Drug Empire?

a couple of statements that stand out.

Sherman’s benevolence to people he felt were on his side was matched by a fierce determination to punish those who crossed him.

KW can attest to this.

Even while Sherman was alive, Kay said, “the plan was, eventually we’d have to sell the business, and we’d sell to someone that would keep the jobs in Canada … and we’d take less money for the right guarantees”—at least for a few years. “You can’t rule from the grave.”

So the plan was made and it was to sell not hand down/over to family or a successor(s).

 

[Window21]

These are the things I find odd ...JMO

1. Why was there no one going into the house on Thursday? If there was, no media has made any mention of it. No personal trainer, no house keeper, no plant watering person, no snow removal (we know the assistant had the day off) we can also assume there was no house showing because anyone that wanted to view the house would definitely want to see the pool area.

2. JMO but I strongly feel HS had a will.....where did it go? If she had that many millions in her name, guaranteed she would have a will.

3. I often wondered if Laurens car being broken into had any connection to these murders? If not then that's quite a coincidence.

4. BS was a workaholic...why did no one go to the house to see if he was ok? Was there a reason no one checked up on them?

5. I am wondering if the staging was a sign for the remaining children? (for example....do as I say or you will be next....or ....your dad didn't listen, and we warned him, so this is what happens??? Something like that.....

All JMO....

 

[ldlager]

came across this older article, some details seem familiar, some not so much. I also am unsure of the accuracy of these details.

Who Killed the Billionaire Founder of a Generic Drug Empire?

a couple of statements that stand out.

Sherman’s benevolence to people he felt were on his side was matched by a fierce determination to punish those who crossed him.

KW can attest to this.

Even while Sherman was alive, Kay said, “the plan was, eventually we’d have to sell the business, and we’d sell to someone that would keep the jobs in Canada … and we’d take less money for the right guarantees”—at least for a few years. “You can’t rule from the grave.”

So the plan was made and it was to sell not hand down/over to family or a successor(s).

correct. But not so soon

 

[branmuffin]

If the killer did want to prompt someone to go to the Shermans’ to find the bodies, he’d need to be in the loop of people who could note the Shermans’ absence and make it known.

So far we only know the real estate agents and Mary were discussing together that they couldn’t reach Honey.

I was wondering why the killer turned off the lights in the home. If someone close to them were to drop by the home on Wednesday night, or Thursday after 5:00 pm it would be dark out. No lights on would make it appear the Shermans weren’t there. (Both of the Shermans were night owls according to KD.)

Did we ever find out what time the NW was seen walking away from the Sherman residence? The time stamps seem to blurred out on the video LE released. If it was after 11 pm maybe it wouldn't have been too unusual for the lights to be off at that time. If the Shermans were night owls perhaps they were in areas that faced the rear of the home rather than the front.

Also, some of HS's friends might have thought it wasn't that unusual if she didn't respond to calls on Thursday; she was busy with the new house design, planning on leaving for Florida on Friday, and had a new grandchild.

 

[juli99]

Did we ever find out what time the NW was seen walking away from the Sherman residence? The time stamps seem to blurred out on the video LE released. If it was after 11 pm maybe it wouldn't have been too unusual for the lights to be off at that time. If the Shermans were night owls perhaps they were in areas that faced the rear of the home rather than the front.

Also, some of HS's friends might have thought it wasn't that unusual if she didn't respond to calls on Thursday; she was busy with the new house design, planning on leaving for Florida on Friday, and had a new grandchild.

I'm wondering if the pool room lights would have been visible from across the way to the neighbors that they backed on to? The front of the house to me looks like you wouldn't really be able to tell whether the lights were on or off for the most part.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I'm wondering if the pool room lights would have been visible from across the way to the neighbors that they backed on to? The front of the house to me looks like you wouldn't really be able to tell whether the lights were on or off for the most part.

The pool was completely underground, the tennis court was above it. That back part of the basement had no natural light until you reached the spiral staircase which had a skylight.

Floor plans: https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

The front part of the basement was higher than the back. The only window visible to the street was the one that was left open at the front of the basement.

 

[WINDSOR]

I agree, I don't believe these debts were personal loans from Barry's bank account to JS's bank account, IMO it would all be done through companies, everyone in business does it this way: companies have limited liability - the company can go bankrupt but that doesn't affect the owner's personal wealth, and doesn't affect any other companies they may own and control. There's no limit to the number of companies you can create, these days each one is set up for a different project or even just to loan money for a particular project.

I'm sure this has been mentioned, but just wanted to reinforce it.

JMO

Therefore, if all the financing was done through corporations and such legal entities, the debt and so on would survive Barry's death.
Therefore, Fd'A would not have a monetary motive for Barry's death.

 

[WINDSOR]

Window 21 said; BS was a workaholic...why did no one go to the house to see if he was ok? Was there a reason no one checked up on them?
Yes this strikes me very odd. I would have expected that Barry had a executive assistant or personal secretary or some such 'right-hand' person.
For a corporate leader like Barry it would only make sense.
This person would know all Barry's schedule, and if Barry was expected to be in the office that Thursday morning and Barry did not show, you would expect that person to immediately start making enquiries. First question, was Barry expected in the office Thursday?

 

[juli99]

The pool was completely underground, the tennis court was above it. That back part of the basement had no natural light until you reached the spiral staircase which had a skylight.
View attachment 333638
Floor plans: https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

The front part of the basement was higher than the back. The only window visible to the street was the one that was left open at the front of the basement.

Thank you for explaining! I always thought that glass block wall was an exterior wall that during the day would let in light. I understand now I am looking at it backwards. The glass block wall divides the pool from the garage. What a creepy pool that would have been. I wish there was a photo from the other direction.

 

[MistyWaters]

Window 21 said; BS was a workaholic...why did no one go to the house to see if he was ok? Was there a reason no one checked up on them?
Yes this strikes me very odd. I would have expected that Barry had a executive assistant or personal secretary or some such 'right-hand' person.
For a corporate leader like Barry it would only make sense.
This person would know all Barry's schedule, and if Barry was expected to be in the office that Thursday morning and Barry did not show, you would expect that person to immediately start making enquiries. First question, was Barry expected in the office Thursday?

Barry was not involved in day to day operations and he had numerous other business interests as well. These employees may’ve never been at his home. So no, I don’t think it’s odd at all that nobody went looking for him when he didn’t show up. Although he was a workaholic in his role up at the top he wasn’t required to answer to anybody.

I’m thinking of my own life’s experiences and if a boss didn’t show up for work one day, I just can’t imagine going to house to check on him.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Window 21 said; BS was a workaholic...why did no one go to the house to see if he was ok? Was there a reason no one checked up on them?
Yes this strikes me very odd. I would have expected that Barry had a executive assistant or personal secretary or some such 'right-hand' person.
For a corporate leader like Barry it would only make sense.
This person would know all Barry's schedule, and if Barry was expected to be in the office that Thursday morning and Barry did not show, you would expect that person to immediately start making enquiries. First question, was Barry expected in the office Thursday?

Barry was expected to be in the office. I haven’t heard of any missed meetings, just that he hadn’t responded to people trying to contact him which was unusual.
In his book, KD said if Jack Kay had not been in New York, he would have gone looking for Barry on Thursday.

 

[lukeonetwo]

To me, it seems odd that they were killed and/or placed in the only area in the house with a security camera, which insiders may have known was turned off. Possibly points to killer(s) not only staging it as a murder/suicide, but also possibly knowing an insider who could inform on camera being non-operational. Just my opinion.

 

[ldlager]

Therefore, if all the financing was done through corporations and such legal entities, the debt and so on would survive Barry's death.
Therefore, Fd'A would not have a monetary motive for Barry's death.

Yes but we don't know what the terms of the loans were. The debts could have been papered up to be forgivable under certain conditions or in certain situations. I don't believe FDA had any motive to commit this crime, but we don't know if he in fact has had to repay any loans that were outstanding at the time of BS death. This info has not been made public.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I'm wondering if the pool room lights would have been visible from across the way to the neighbors that they backed on to? The front of the house to me looks like you wouldn't really be able to tell whether the lights were on or off for the most part.

Would the pool room lights be visible from the underground garage? the hallway wall is the glass blocks is that not the pool?

 

[MistyWaters]

Yes but we don't know what the terms of the loans were. The debts could have been papered up to be forgivable under certain conditions or in certain situations. I don't believe FDA had any motive to commit this crime, but we don't know if he in fact has had to repay any loans that were outstanding at the time of BS death. This info has not been made public.

Assuming the loans were made from one of Barry’s companies, the company doesn’t collapse if the major shareholder dies. A private company is a registered legal entity. The terms of any lending agreements would remain in place and according to succession planning, a new shareholder would take over. Businesses lending is much different than someone lending someone money on a personal basis. I think it’d be highly unusual if a clause was added regarding the death of a shareholder because in realty, the money wasn’t directly lent by a shareholder.

In a different lending arrangement, it was Sherman that was involved.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-sherman-lawsuit-1.4506346
“Those emails show correspondence between Sherman's holding company, Sherfam Inc., Gottlieb and Shaun Rootenberg.

Gottlieb emailed officials at Sherfam Inc. in August 2015 to thank them for the promised $150,000 investment.”

ETA, and this BBM. His finances likely became more complex as years went by.
Endless court battles, angry relatives and shady players: the truth about Barry Sherman
“His financial interests, conducted through a web of private companies, trusts and foundations were so Byzantine that even he had trouble keeping them all straight. During his Rubenstein deposition in 1990, a lawyer asked him where he got the bail money. “I don’t know,” he replied. “My banking is very, very complex. I simply instructed my staff to have the money forwarded.”….”

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

The pool was completely underground, the tennis court was above it. That back part of the basement had no natural light until you reached the spiral staircase which had a skylight.
View attachment 333638
Floor plans: https://media.houssmax.ca/201711/29/5a1f32afd3797.pdf

The front part of the basement was higher than the back. The only window visible to the street was the one that was left open at the front of the basement.

Interesting to see the layouts, now I ask which powder room was HS phone found, the one by the front door or past the dining room to what appears to be the mudroom, it has a powder room there too, and I recall reading that this is the door HS used, not the front entrance. Q: did the perp know HS would enter via that door or were they waiting somewhere in the home. I always pictured the phone by the front door and wondered why no one thought a phone on the floor there would be odd. Now I think it was in the area where she could have just dropped it by mistake and thus not a concern to the staff.

Also when you see the layout the bodies were at the furthest point in the home ensuring that no one would see them - unless they entered the pool room.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Interesting to see the layouts, now I ask which powder room was HS phone found, the one by the front door or past the dining room to what appears to be the mudroom, it has a powder room there too, and I recall reading that this is the door HS used, not the front entrance. Q: did the perp know HS would enter via that door or were they waiting somewhere in the home. I always pictured the phone by the front door and wondered why no one thought a phone on the floor there would be odd. Now I think it was in the area where she could have just dropped it by mistake and thus not a concern to the staff.

Also when you see the layout the bodies were at the furthest point in the home ensuring that no one would see them - unless they entered the pool room.

KD said it was the powder room right by the front door. In his book he said the maid heard the phone ringing and followed the sound to the bathroom where she found it on the floor. She placed it on the counter.

But after the book was published he said the real estate agent found it on the counter (maybe both versions are true.)

According to KD, Honey usually used the side door, and would park her car close to it. He said they rarely used the front doors.

ETA: As the Sherman children got older I wonder if any of them decided to have their bedrooms in the basement. There was a nanny’s quarters complete with a kitchen down there.