CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[ldlager]

Wondering how other women exit their vehicles to enter the home for the evening. When I arrive in my driveway at the end of a day, I gather whatever I do not want to leave (anything of value) in the car and take it inside, be it hand gloves on the front seat, my purse, my laptop bag, my shopping bag if I stopped on the way home. It would be rare that I did not have something to take, purse and keys for sure, my hands always have something in them as I enter the home.

I do not usually have my phone in my hand. I usually put it in a pocket or in my purse and or laptop bag. I have my keys in my hand and whatever I took from the car. I step in the door and immediately start to remove shoes, even before I put anything down - (HS entry was into a mudroom area so maybe shoes were not removed immediately) - So if it were me that was accosted as I entered my home, I would need time to grab my phone from a pocket or purse etc

Someone has asked the question already where is HS's shopping bag? it could have still been in the car we do not know but if it is nowhere to be found why would perp take it? memento?

Adding to that, where are her keys, where is her purse? where were these located? Both were found with coats on, we assume shoes on. were keys in their pockets? still, where is HS's purse.

Makes me wonder was the underground garage entry to the home locked? did BS need keys to enter the house, if so again where are his keys, he dropped his gloves and papers but no keys? he just walked in the door (we think) he has his winter coat and shoes (we think) on, drops what he has in his hands - not his phone (that was found in the pool area) - maybe he did drop it and the perp picked it up and took it to the pool area? but no mention of keys? BS could have pocketed them as he opened the door.

Starting to get an impression these items were left as red herrings or reporting on these subjects has been misconstrued by the media. And IMO rightfully so, LE will not correct poor media reporting if it does not hurt them or the investigation. Again IMO a family will step in at times to correct the media reporting (hire your own investigative team to find out what happened because LE is not sharing any info with anyone and able to leak details that you want the public to know) but LE time is better spent to observe the reactions to these misconceptions than spend time correcting them.

These are good insights from a woman's perspective as to what you put where as you prepare to enter the house, thank you. I think most men just try and shove everything we can into our pockets... lol It is also possible that HS was in fact on her phone as she entered the house. Or she used it after entering the house and was accosted while she had it in her hand.

 

[juli99]

Yes, but we don't know where HS was at 6.21. Still at the mall perhaps? Driving? Home? Somewhere else?

It sounds like she was in her car somewhere for sure, probably at the mall.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I was going back and noticed Honey was away frequently on trips without Barry:

-was on a road trip with her friends on October 30th— mid-November (page 70 of KD’s book)
-was in Miami (I don’t know when she left) and returned home on December 9th. (Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman’s schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned)
-December 18th she was expected to be off to Miami again, Barry leaving days later and returning before she would come home.

Rough estimate is Barry was expected to be alone in the home for about 18-21 days from October 30th—December 24th.

 

[juli99]

It feels like at the very least, the killer knew about the meeting scheduled at Apotex. Since this meaning was rescheduled at the last minute, it feels like the killer or insider was either talking to Honey or Barry daily, or had somehow infiltrated their electronic communication. When TPS originally said they were stalked, I thought that meant their house. But more realistically, perhaps they were electronically stalked?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

It would be very informative to know when the NW was seen entering that area without video footage. We know that Honey's last phone call was at 6:21 pm. She had her phone in her hand at that time. Sometime after that it ended up in the powder room. Where was the NW at 6:21 pm?

"The last phone call Honey made was at 6:21 p.m. on Dec. 13 and preliminary data obtained from her iPhone showed several missed calls on Dec. 14 and Dec. 15."

Police 'committed' to bringing closure, justice to Sherman family, cops say on 3rd anniversary of billionaire couple's murder

I recall the timeline that went with the NW details was between 9pm and midnight, (edit to add - trying to find where I read this 3 hour window, I cannot find it so maybe I am incorrect) if that is correct then he could have arrived after or as HS or BS arrived home.

If so then were the coats put on after death? were they part of staging the scene?

I wonder if the "Thursday" visitor's cell # is one or more of those calls on the 14th?

And to note they state the last call made by HS cell was before she arrived home, so she did not call 911 from her cell phone!

I do recall the 911 call testing was done from the land line, assuming they already knew no call was dialed from her cell. (read HS did not have a password lock on her phone - I bet BS did on his BlackBerry(BB), you have those for the high level of encryption and security, I assume his BB was corporately managed by Apotex IT team to ensure BS information remained private)

It would be interesting what were the last actions performed on his BB the fateful night. Did he open his BB and were any searches done on his BB after he arrived home, not necessarily any emails but file searches, downloads, etc? his BB was found on the floor as well, what does that imply? posing the bodies side by side in a seated position with coats and belts and leaving cell phones and paperwork on the floor? what is the relevance - if any?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

It feels like at the very least, the killer knew about the meeting scheduled at Apotex. Since this meaning was rescheduled at the last minute, it feels like the killer or insider was either talking to Honey or Barry daily, or had somehow infiltrated their electronic communication. When TPS originally said they were stalked, I thought that meant their house. But more realistically, perhaps they were electronically stalked?

I think so. I think it’s possible that the cctv cameras in the neighbourhood were hacked as well. IMO, that’s how the ‘urban explorer’ knew when the cameras were down and he could trespass into the Shermans’ home. (bbm)


‘Construction hoarding went up around the home, and Lions Demolition was hired to do the work in May 2019. Though Barry and Honey had never had surveillance cameras on their home — Barry scoffed at the idea and told friends “if they are going to get you they are going to get you” — high-tech security cameras were installed after the bodies were discovered. Whether by Toronto police or the family, neither will say.

It was those cameras that the Urbex man was watching throughout the month of May. When they came down — they were likely leased from a security company — he decided it was time.”
An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’ | The Star

I don’t think this guy lived in the area, and Old Colony Rd. is a dead-end street.

ETA: I’d love to know if there was a way the police could tell if they were electronically stalked as you suggested.

I know there’s malware people can send that enables them to mirror your device. Honey didn’t use password protection on her devices, maybe her devices were vulnerable.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Could be either I would think. Or mybe it slipped out of her hand as she was running.

I think the perp would have picked them up if he wanted but he chose to leave items on the floor of the normal living space, why if he hid the bodies in the back of the basement do you leave personal items on the floor in the home, at the entrances?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I think so. I think it’s possible that the cctv cameras in the neighbourhood were hacked as well. IMO, that’s how the ‘urban explorer’ knew when the cameras were down and he could trespass into the Shermans’ home. (bbm)


‘Construction hoarding went up around the home, and Lions Demolition was hired to do the work in May 2019. Though Barry and Honey had never had surveillance cameras on their home — Barry scoffed at the idea and told friends “if they are going to get you they are going to get you” — high-tech security cameras were installed after the bodies were discovered. Whether by Toronto police or the family, neither will say.

It was those cameras that the Urbex man was watching throughout the month of May. When they came down — they were likely leased from a security company — he decided it was time.”
An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’ | The Star

I don’t think this guy lived in the area, and Old Colony Rd. is a dead-end street.

ETA: I’d love to know if there was a way the police could tell if they were electronically stalked as you suggested.

I know there’s malware people can send that enables them to mirror your device. Honey didn’t use password protection on her devices, maybe her devices were vulnerable.

I understand Barry's point about the security cameras, I believe he was implying that the camera will not protect you from someone who wants to get you, it only could possibly if not tampered with, tell you the history of events within a view. But as we see from 90% of videos shared to the public in hopes of identification you cannot make out a face or clearly identify anyone. Cameras are intended to deter someone from committing an offense as they may be seen and reported. But as BS said if they set out a plan to get you then they will get around the cameras and he was not interested in spending money on things that gave him no value.

I worked with a guy who created an infrared hat, like a big top hat that when he wore it in front of CCTV cameras made his face seem invisible. Signal jammers are easy to bring with you and stop any cell frequency from a location too.

I think I mentioned a long while ago that a small tracer could have been easily added to either car, their comings and goings could have been easily watched for who knows how long. My question was were the vehicles checked to see if anything was removed from the vehicle, it had been snowing in the days before, the cars would have under dirt and salt and you would see if a bug/tracker was removed.

edit to add, if people are serious about security cameras they use IP cameras not cctv

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

These are good insights from a woman's perspective as to what you put where as you prepare to enter the house, thank you. I think most men just try and shove everything we can into our pockets... lol It is also possible that HS was in fact on her phone as she entered the house. Or she used it after entering the house and was accosted while she had it in her hand.

I think they have HS last cell call at 6:21 was she home that early? It is rumored she went to the mall and made purchases, and got home closer to 8:30?

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

speaking about the cell phones, I wonder if they had any fingerprints on them other than the owner of the phone? or were they smudged/wiped clean and no prints at all?

 

[newclues]

I think so. I think it’s possible that the cctv cameras in the neighbourhood were hacked as well. IMO, that’s how the ‘urban explorer’ knew when the cameras were down and he could trespass into the Shermans’ home. (bbm)


‘Construction hoarding went up around the home, and Lions Demolition was hired to do the work in May 2019. Though Barry and Honey had never had surveillance cameras on their home — Barry scoffed at the idea and told friends “if they are going to get you they are going to get you” — high-tech security cameras were installed after the bodies were discovered. Whether by Toronto police or the family, neither will say.

It was those cameras that the Urbex man was watching throughout the month of May. When they came down — they were likely leased from a security company — he decided it was time.”
An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’ | The Star

I don’t think this guy lived in the area, and Old Colony Rd. is a dead-end street.

ETA: I’d love to know if there was a way the police could tell if they were electronically stalked as you suggested.

I know there’s malware people can send that enables them to mirror your device. Honey didn’t use password protection on her devices, maybe her devices were vulnerable.

I thought their demolition was from Mr. Ricky Kirshenblatt, and his company RKS Building Group Ltd.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I thought their demolition was from Mr. Ricky Kirshenblatt, and his company RKS Building Group Ltd.

RKS was involved, but Lions Demolition did the actual razing and removal of the debris.

 

[ldlager]

I think they have HS last cell call at 6:21 was she home that early? It is rumored she went to the mall and made purchases, and got home closer to 8:30?

She left Apo around 6 and went to Bayview village, so no she wasn't at home at 6.21

 

[juli99]

She left Apo around 6 and went to Bayview village, so no she wasn't at home at 6.21

She was on her way home when she made that call.

"At 6:21 p.m., Honey calls friend Elly Appleby. In an interview, Elly told the Star Honey was calling to check up on Elly’s husband, who had just had a major surgery (it went well). “Honey was a very caring person, they were both terrific. We had a lovely, lovely friendship,” Appleby said. Honey sounded completely normal and was “on her way home.”

Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman's schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned - Toronto Star | Alay Manopo

 

[FromGermany1]

She was on her way home when she made that call.

"At 6:21 p.m., Honey calls friend Elly Appleby. In an interview, Elly told the Star Honey was calling to check up on Elly’s husband, who had just had a major surgery (it went well). “Honey was a very caring person, they were both terrific. We had a lovely, lovely friendship,” Appleby said. Honey sounded completely normal and was “on her way home.”

Did someone know Barry and Honey Sherman's schedule? Close friends were away and they had nothing planned - Toronto Star | Alay Manopo

Who doesn't take time to make this call, when back at home and not still "on the way"? Was HS overloaded with appointments?

 

[juli99]

Who doesn't take time to make this call, when back at home and not still "on the way"? Was HS overloaded with appointments?

She might have been someone who had a habit of making phone calls from her car. She had also just gotten out of an hour-long meeting at Apotex and maybe was anxious to hear how the surgery went. I picture her being a somewhat impulsive person when it came to social things. JMO

 

[Window21]

Lots of people make calls from their cars all the time. I have 2 friends that usually call me from their car! It annoys me, but I can see why they do it. They have busy lives and when they get home they have other things they want to do, OR they just want to relax and not deal with phone calls. So HS calling from her phone seems perfectly normal to me.

 

[Satchie]

Lots of people make calls from their cars all the time. I have 2 friends that usually call me from their car! It annoys me, but I can see why they do it. They have busy lives and when they get home they have other things they want to do, OR they just want to relax and not deal with phone calls. So HS calling from her phone seems perfectly normal to me.

Could have been during the tedious walk from the car into the mall, and shopping. Personally, I'd rather talk to a friend than be bombarded by mall frenzy.

 

[Window21]

Does Jonathan Sherman still own this business in Apsley Ontario?

Lakeview Cottages & Marina 705-656-4239 Apsley

I looked at the photos on FB for these cottages and I think I see him, especially him holding the fish...I was just curious because I was mentioning this case to a friend of mine today and they said his son owns property around the Kawarthas. So I started looking around and I found this place.
Lakeview Cottages, Auto & Marine – Chandos Lake’s premier provider of accommodations and services

Edit: I also spot AP in some of these pics on FB and on the cottage website.

 

[Window21]

I think this is AP and JS at the property in Apsely Ontario. Maybe they both own it