CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #18

[Window21]

No lawyer in their right mind would let a client like HS not have a will.

I find it very odd and unusual that HS did not have a will. That makes no common sense to me at all. That would be one of the first orders of business when you meet with your lawyer. How could someone like HS go all these years with no will? These are both very savvy business people and a will is something I would assume HS would have taken care of IMO.

This will situation has always bothered me.

 

[newclues]

This is what I've been saying! It creates an unnecessary administrative hassle. These were smart people, it makes absolutely no sense.

Unless the NW somehow got his hands on the will before or after killing HS.

 

[newclues]

It is very interesting to have KW on here since he may know information on BS and HS that no one else on here would know about.

 

[branmuffin]

GREAT description, so easy to picture what you describe, I was nodding my head as I read your description. That is a seriously good summation of the staging as we know it. Who wanted to "school" them?

I also have wondered if the murderer did know them and they are the religious one who to save his sole placed them facing "their homeland" and or had some embarrassment or regret and placed them as far from normal traffic as possible. Or the pool room an area of the home with no chance of any outside views and the winter clothing was an attempt to confuse the time of death. Last thought I have also wondered, did the perp tie them up and leave the room, go through the home and return to find they attempted to get out of the ties and succumbed in the attempt, the perp found them?

It could also been seen as "you've turned your back on me your whole life". The perp may view one of the Shermans as never taking them seriously, undermining their plans and suggestions, shunning them emotionally and financially. As to who the target was and the one who became collateral damage for looking the other way, take your pick.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Re: the reported 911 call and officers visiting a neighbor's home - while the "Thursday visitor" went to and from the Sherman home, unsure if they ever entered the building.

How can we confirm if there was ever a 911 call made on the 13th/14th-Wed night into the early morning hours of Thursday?

I have read media reports and they state the neighbor told reporters about officers advising of a 911 call coming from their home, not police reporting it as part of the Sherman case.

The older I get the less I believe in coincidences. These two things happening at the same time make me question what was going on.

Were the "officers" visiting the neighbor truly Toronto LE and was there a legitimate call to 911 that they were investigating? If the 911 call was suggested to have happened the Wed night, why show up hours later Thursday morning to check on them?

Is 911 supposed to call back?
If disconnected, the 911 center has no way to call back the caller. These uninitialized phones are often used to place malicious or fake calls to 911 call centers. These calls are a burden on the 911 system because 911 call centers are required to find out whether or not an emergency truly exists.

Frequently Asked Questions about Calling 911
https://www.911.gov › frequently_asked_questions
What happens if 911 calls you back and you don't answer?

If you fail to answer the phone, a police officer will be sent to your address to make sure everyone is alright. If you call from a cell phone, your location and phone number may or may not appear in the ANI/ALI system, depending on your cell phone carrier and what type of cell phone you have.


Also curious if we will ever know the purpose of the "Thursday 14th visitor" that parked on the street and walked across the driveway to the door area - now out of camera view no one knows what he was doing - police say they know who he is, and we must assume then they know why he was there and what he did, I wish we knew.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Re: the reported 911 call and officers visiting a neighbor's home - while the "Thursday visitor" went to and from the Sherman home, unsure if they ever entered the building.

How can we confirm if there was ever a 911 call made on the 13th/14th-Wed night into the early morning hours of Thursday?

I have read media reports and they state the neighbor told reporters about officers advising of a 911 call coming from their home, not police reporting it as part of the Sherman case.

The older I get the less I believe in coincidences. These two things happening at the same time make me question what was going on.

Were the "officers" visiting the neighbor truly Toronto LE and was there a legitimate call to 911 that they were investigating? If the 911 call was suggested to have happened the Wed night, why show up hours later Thursday morning to check on them?

Is 911 supposed to call back?
If disconnected, the 911 center has no way to call back the caller. These uninitialized phones are often used to place malicious or fake calls to 911 call centers. These calls are a burden on the 911 system because 911 call centers are required to find out whether or not an emergency truly exists.

Frequently Asked Questions about Calling 911
https://www.911.gov › frequently_asked_questions
What happens if 911 calls you back and you don't answer?

If you fail to answer the phone, a police officer will be sent to your address to make sure everyone is alright. If you call from a cell phone, your location and phone number may or may not appear in the ANI/ALI system, depending on your cell phone carrier and what type of cell phone you have.


Also curious if we will ever know the purpose of the "Thursday 14th visitor" that parked on the street and walked across the driveway to the door area - now out of camera view no one knows what he was doing - police say they know who he is, and we must assume then they know why he was there and what he did, I wish we knew.

Bolded and underlined partly by me:

It was a real constable. KD managed to identify the officer who responded to the 911 call, but didn’t name him.

“The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment.”
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star

In the same article the homeowner said they checked with both of the phone companies they used and no 911 call was made from their phones.

Another quote from the link above:

“The Star presented these two pieces of information to the Toronto police last week and asked two questions. First, could the police provide information about their investigation of a 911 call from a nearby home that morning, including the time of the call and whether police were certain it came from the homeowners’ house down the street. Second, the Star asked if it was possible that the person knocking on the Shermans’ door was a police officer in an unmarked car, who was also checking out the 911 call.

Director of communications Allison Sparkes gave the following response: “As for your questions below, we are unable to comment on any aspects of open, ongoing investigations.”

The Star went back to Sparkes, noting that it would likely be of public interest if the 911 call was related to the Shermans case, and also that, if the person knocking at the Shermans’ door was a police officer, that would also be of public interest. Sparkes said, “We can’t comment on any aspect of open and ongoing investigations.””

_____

On the same topic, we mentioned here before that Detective Yim made test 911 calls from the home landline and the surrounding streets using a cell phone.

ETA: There’s a Call For Service Dashboard for Toronto, but I don’t know about archived data. ArcGIS Dashboards

 

[ldlager]

It is very interesting to have KW on here since he may know information on BS and HS that no one else on here would know about.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Bolded and underlined partly by me:

It was a real constable. KD managed to identify the officer who responded to the 911 call, but didn’t name him.

“The Star reached out to the police constable who went to check out the 911 call but he was unavailable for comment.”
Barry and Honey Sherman’s neighbours cite mysterious 911 call, visitor on day before billionaires found dead | The Star

In the same article the homeowner said they checked with both of the phone companies they used and no 911 call was made from their phones.

Another quote from the link above:

“The Star presented these two pieces of information to the Toronto police last week and asked two questions. First, could the police provide information about their investigation of a 911 call from a nearby home that morning, including the time of the call and whether police were certain it came from the homeowners’ house down the street. Second, the Star asked if it was possible that the person knocking on the Shermans’ door was a police officer in an unmarked car, who was also checking out the 911 call.

Director of communications Allison Sparkes gave the following response: “As for your questions below, we are unable to comment on any aspects of open, ongoing investigations.”

The Star went back to Sparkes, noting that it would likely be of public interest if the 911 call was related to the Shermans case, and also that, if the person knocking at the Shermans’ door was a police officer, that would also be of public interest. Sparkes said, “We can’t comment on any aspect of open and ongoing investigations.””

_____

On the same topic, we mentioned here before that Detective Yim made test 911 calls from the home landline and the surrounding streets using a cell phone.

ETA: There’s a Call For Service Dashboard for Toronto, but I don’t know about archived data. ArcGIS Dashboards

thank you, Lexiintoronto that link is really cool! I tried changing the dates to Dec 13-15 2017 but cannot figure out how to use the tool, I can enter those dates but no data populates like the map you show us here.

IMO this is still not confirmed, why did KD drop this and not continue to try and get a comment from the constable. Just because LE gave a constable name we are to believe they have what they need and it is none of the public business? to me this is unsubstantiated. They gave the same few words regarding the Thursday visitor, "it is ok everyone we know who they are" and that was it.

What we also do not know about this 911 call is the nature of the call? was the call answered/initiated by the 911 phone system (not necessarily to a live person yet, the start of the 911 call is automated). Did the 911 caller actually choose their option - fire, ambulance, or police? Or did someone purposely call 911 and immediately hang up/disconnect the call, wanting police to check the neighborhood?

We know the neighbors said they checked with cell and landline companies and no calls from their lines were made. We do not know if the call was from a landline or cell phone. I do not think the neighbors were told what number the call came from, why would they check with both companies, were they fined or warned they would be fined for the bad call? We can assume landline as we are aware LE tested the Shermans landlines, they already had their cellular phones and once had warrants could review these for any calls made as well.

If LE came to my door and asked if we called 911 and we said no and they said are you sure, I would be sure to ask what phone # do they have that called 911. Curious did this constable give the neighbor a phone # that was used for this call or just ask if they called 911?

So many details KD could have asked this constable, albeit he may not have been privy to answer all questions but at least they could be asked. As it is we are to just let this go, LE has the info and does not need any additional info on this subject from the public.

Same for the Thursday visitor IMO the public should be privy to know why the person was there.

 

[juli99]

Unless the NW somehow got his hands on the will before or after killing HS.

He would have had to get his hands on her lawyer too though. Unless she somehow made a will without legal assistance.

 

[WINDSOR]

Unless the NW somehow got his hands on the will before or after killing HS.

Even if the NW had the will, Honey's lawyer would have a copy, and know of the existence of her will. If you remember Barry was the 'smartest guy' in the room always, so he likely had a reason for Honey not having a will.

The Law firm who made up Barry's will likely know if and why Honey did not have a will. Somebody could ask them.
However they may plead, lawyer -client privilege, which survives death. A representative for Honey can waive that privilege.

 

[WINDSOR]

It is very interesting to have KW on here since he may know information on BS and HS that no one else on here would know about.

I do not think KW was privy to nearly as much information about BS and HS as he thinks.

 

[Window21]

He would have had to get his hands on her lawyer too though. Unless she somehow made a will without legal assistance.

Exactly! This is such a high profile case, the lawyer would immediately step forward to produce a will. At least I would hope so!
The lawyer would have to be crooked not to because he could be de-barred (or whatever you call it) for holding something like that.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

RE: NW

First I want to point out the amount of work and "data" that TP LE has been sifting through is huge! We know it has been years and I can understand now why many months pass without much to share.

Can anyone help me to comprehend what Price was conveying here? I have missed the underlined part in all my past reviews on this subject.

Billionaire Couple Was Murdered in Toronto Mansion 4 Years Ago, Police Release Footage of Suspect

"It is our hope someone will come forward with a name when they recognize the individual's walk the way in which they kick up their right foot with every step knowing that the person was or is connected to the Sherman family or was in the area on that day at that time," Price said.

This was also interesting to me:

Price said investigators sought the help of the FBI and the Ontario Provincial Police in their attempt to analyze the video. The service's forensic video analysis unit, he said, used photogrammetry to help identify physical identifiers such as the height of the person captured on the videos. They also collected data from nearby cell towers to "cross reference that with the physical locations of individuals on the video."

Was this the only use of that cellular data dump that was granted via the warrant, do LE have permission to use this data for any other analysis?

Did this NW have a burner phone that was picked up on tower(s) as he walked? even powered off phones have the power to ping a tower, you can carry your phone in a special case that blocks these signals, the police use them when collecting cell phones as evidence, - not saying that they did get a non identified # on a tower, it could mean they carried no phone at all as well.

look here to see how many towers are in the area that the NW had the opportunity to take to get to where we see he walked! that is a lot of data to sift through from all those providers, and you can see no Telus towers in the area so if a telus user was in the area which provider is he piggy backing?

Canadian Cellular Towers Map

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

and more, here again, similar verbiage, but a little different,
IMO I comprehend that LE looked at all cell data from all those towers for a specific set of hours and compared it to family and friend's cell data to see if they communicated with anyone who was considered walking in the area during NW walking times:

"That includes Toronto police going through the phone data of hundreds of people who were connected to the couple at the time, in an effort to geographically link them to a suspect identified by investigators last month who was seen on surveillance video."

Relative believes 'someone was making a statement' in murder of Barry and Honey Sherman, unsealed documents show

 

[dotr]

Wonder if members of the S family and the ones in the R family, are each paying close attention to each other's case?
They fled the Nazis and built a real estate empire. Now Toronto’s famed Reichmann family is headed back to court amid a bitter family feud | The Star
April 6 2022
''They fled the Nazis in Austria and then built a real estate empire that transformed city skylines. But ever since the Reichmanns’ commercial real estate business went broke, their legacy has been marred by a web of increasingly complex and bizarre lawsuits.

This week, the billionaire Reichmann family is headed to Ontario Superior Court to resolve a years-long feud between one of the business’ founding fathers, Ralph, and his son, Abraham.

Abraham, 60, alleges that his parents, including his mother, Ada, are wrongfully withholding his share of the family wealth, and has filed a series of claims related to his share of a family holding company as well as a 30-year-old unresolved lawsuit involving his mother.''

Jews of the Week: Louis Lloyd Winter and Bernard Sherman | Jew of the Week
''Louis Lloyd Winter (1924-1965) was born in Toronto, the youngest of six children. He studied biochemistry at the University of Toronto, and after graduating with a Master’s Degree, borrowed $10,000 from his father to open his first company in the family garage. There, he would process blood work and pregnancy tests for local med offices, and his business skyrocketed quickly. Seeing that prescription drugs were way too expensive, and many could not afford them, Winter started a generic pharmaceuticals company. By 1959, he had to purchase a whole building for his operations and created Empire Laboratories Ltd. By 1964, it was Canada’s largest pharmaceutical, offered over 100 products, and supplied the US military through a branch in Puerto Rico. The following year, Winter’s life was cut short at the young age of 41 when he had a sudden aneurysm. 17 days later, his wife died of leukemia.''

 

[ldlager]

He would have had to get his hands on her lawyer too though. Unless she somehow made a will without legal assistance.

But a lawyer that helps a client draft a Will that is subsequently executed would have no idea whether the client subsequently drafted new Will and revoked that one. So the lawyer would not know if he/she had drafted the latest (and valid) Will.

 

[ldlager]

RE: NW

First I want to point out the amount of work and "data" that TP LE has been sifting through is huge! We know it has been years and I can understand now why many months pass without much to share.

Can anyone help me to comprehend what Price was conveying here? I have missed the underlined part in all my past reviews on this subject.

Billionaire Couple Was Murdered in Toronto Mansion 4 Years Ago, Police Release Footage of Suspect

"It is our hope someone will come forward with a name when they recognize the individual's walk the way in which they kick up their right foot with every step knowing that the person was or is connected to the Sherman family or was in the area on that day at that time," Price said.

This was also interesting to me:

Price said investigators sought the help of the FBI and the Ontario Provincial Police in their attempt to analyze the video. The service's forensic video analysis unit, he said, used photogrammetry to help identify physical identifiers such as the height of the person captured on the videos. They also collected data from nearby cell towers to "cross reference that with the physical locations of individuals on the video."

Was this the only use of that cellular data dump that was granted via the warrant, do LE have permission to use this data for any other analysis?

Did this NW have a burner phone that was picked up on tower(s) as he walked? even powered off phones have the power to ping a tower, you can carry your phone in a special case that blocks these signals, the police use them when collecting cell phones as evidence, - not saying that they did get a non identified # on a tower, it could mean they carried no phone at all as well.

look here to see how many towers are in the area that the NW had the opportunity to take to get to where we see he walked! that is a lot of data to sift through from all those providers, and you can see no Telus towers in the area so if a telus user was in the area which provider is he piggy backing?

Canadian Cellular Towers Map

blank sorry

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Wonder if members of the S family and the ones in the R family, are each paying close attention to each other's case?
They fled the Nazis and built a real estate empire. Now Toronto’s famed Reichmann family is headed back to court amid a bitter family feud | The Star
April 6 2022
''They fled the Nazis in Austria and then built a real estate empire that transformed city skylines. But ever since the Reichmanns’ commercial real estate business went broke, their legacy has been marred by a web of increasingly complex and bizarre lawsuits.

This week, the billionaire Reichmann family is headed to Ontario Superior Court to resolve a years-long feud between one of the business’ founding fathers, Ralph, and his son, Abraham.

Abraham, 60, alleges that his parents, including his mother, Ada, are wrongfully withholding his share of the family wealth, and has filed a series of claims related to his share of a family holding company as well as a 30-year-old unresolved lawsuit involving his mother.''

rsbm

Same theme throughout the Sherman saga!

They just settled:

“Feud involving Canada's wealthy and reclusive Reichmann family finally settled — in private
The details of the settlement will likely never be fully known. Which is the way everyone felt this would likely end…

…After a flurry of media stories on the approaching court appearance, first by National Post followed by other publications, the parties appeared to have a change of heart.

Monday’s scheduled commencement of trial became a Tuesday start. Tuesday’s hearing never happened and neither did Wednesday’s. Because the trial was to be held online, there was no courtroom notification.”
Feud involving Canada's wealthy and reclusive Reichmann family finally settled — in private | National Post

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Many lined up at the ‘Bank of Barry’ Sherman: Inside the $10 billion succession battle

RE: NW

First I want to point out the amount of work and "data" that TP LE has been sifting through is huge! We know it has been years and I can understand now why many months pass without much to share.

Can anyone help me to comprehend what Price was conveying here? I have missed the underlined part in all my past reviews on this subject.

Billionaire Couple Was Murdered in Toronto Mansion 4 Years Ago, Police Release Footage of Suspect

"It is our hope someone will come forward with a name when they recognize the individual's walk the way in which they kick up their right foot with every step knowing that the person was or is connected to the Sherman family or was in the area on that day at that time," Price said.

rsbm

The Star made this chart for their ‘Bank of Barry’ story—

I think when, or if, the suspect is caught they’ll be able to put him on this chart and draw the connection to Honey and Barry. The suspect had a wealth of inside information in order to commit this crime, imo.

The police added an ‘or’ to the sentence, which is a wildcard. (Unknown person, but someone in Toronto might be able to place that suspect there in that neighborhood that night.)

 

[FromGermany1]

rsbm

Same theme throughout the Sherman saga!

They just settled:

“Feud involving Canada's wealthy and reclusive Reichmann family finally settled — in private
The details of the settlement will likely never be fully known. Which is the way everyone felt this would likely end…

…After a flurry of media stories on the approaching court appearance, first by National Post followed by other publications, the parties appeared to have a change of heart.

Monday’s scheduled commencement of trial became a Tuesday start. Tuesday’s hearing never happened and neither did Wednesday’s. Because the trial was to be held online, there was no courtroom notification.”
Feud involving Canada's wealthy and reclusive Reichmann family finally settled — in private | National Post

Interesting! Thank you again!

PS: The whole time I was reading "Reich" instead of "Reichmann". My mind was playing with me, it seems.