CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[dotr]

Does anyone have a link to the condition of the bodies when they were found? Hanged we know but were there any struggle marks, anything other than the hanging at the pool? Thanks in advance.

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

Small amount of blood on HS.rbbm
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
June 16, 2022

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey.

There is a three-foot-high chrome safety railing along the side of the pool where the Shermans were found. As the police documents detail, and the photos show, the Shermans are tied to the railing with men’s leather belts. The railing where they are located is angled to follow the side of the pool. (The pool is not a complete rectangle at the far end where the bodies were discovered.)

A person walking in from the lone entry door would have seen Honey at the far end of the pool (40 feet away). Honey was in profile, the left side of her body the first part visible. She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest. Her rear end is on the floor, her legs stretched out in front.''


''Some media reports have said that Honey’s face looked like she was the victim of a severe beating. That is not the case. There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her.

Barry is situated on the other side of Honey. He is attached to the angled railing a little bit farther back, which explains why, though he is taller than Honey, his feet are roughly one foot from the wall. He, too, is wearing his shoes. His right leg is crossed over the other at the ankle. He is wearing his glasses.''

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Many thanks dotr.

 

[ldlager]

I just saw this now. Hmmmmm……..

This case was settled a number of years ago. I doubt it is in any way related to the murders

 

[Badgerette]

I don’t know how much stock I’d put into the belts. It’s been discussed here that they were strangled w a thinner ligature and the belts were used only for staging. Since HS had just purchased the belts, they could have been out in plain site and an easy prop for the killer. You wouldn’t bring something like that with you as the killer for fear of it being traced back to you and being identified.

 

[FromGermany1]

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

Small amount of blood on HS.rbbm
By Kevin DonovanChief Investigative Reporter
June 16, 2022

''The bodies have been placed in such a manner that someone walking in would see Honey first, then Barry, on the other side of Honey.

There is a three-foot-high chrome safety railing along the side of the pool where the Shermans were found. As the police documents detail, and the photos show, the Shermans are tied to the railing with men’s leather belts. The railing where they are located is angled to follow the side of the pool. (The pool is not a complete rectangle at the far end where the bodies were discovered.)

A person walking in from the lone entry door would have seen Honey at the far end of the pool (40 feet away). Honey was in profile, the left side of her body the first part visible. She is fully dressed, wearing dark pants, a blouse and a blue vest. Her rear end is on the floor, her legs stretched out in front.''


''Some media reports have said that Honey’s face looked like she was the victim of a severe beating. That is not the case. There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her.

Barry is situated on the other side of Honey. He is attached to the angled railing a little bit farther back, which explains why, though he is taller than Honey, his feet are roughly one foot from the wall. He, too, is wearing his shoes. His right leg is crossed over the other at the ankle. He is wearing his glasses.''

It's very sophisticated the way, they sat there. As if an experienced window dresser had put the two down like mannequins.

If I remember well, HS was sitting in a pool of her own blood, although her clothing above the waist was clean (the blood not having run down from her nose/face).

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

It makes sense that they were killed with something other than the belts but then, what do the belts symbolize for the killer?

Thinking out loud here - belts from CT might be considered to be cheap junk for people of their wealth. The statues from many years ago were made from junk. Junkies would love to get into a pharmaceutical company. Junk + Apotex = Junkies?

 

[dotr]

It makes sense that they were killed with something other than the belts but then, what do the belts symbolize for the killer?

Thinking out loud here - belts from CT might be considered to be cheap junk for people of their wealth. The statues from many years ago were made from junk. Junkies would love to get into a pharmaceutical company. Junk + Apotex = Junkies?

Good one, junkies- we all posted just about everything about the belts in earlier threads, except for that! imo.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks dotr. But seriously there has to be a reason for the killing + the staging + the timing, etc. Reasons for murder = Money, Sex, Greed, Hatred.

https://www.crimeandjustice.org.uk/sites/crimeandjustice.org.uk/files/09627250608553401.pdf

Reasons

Why Do People Kill? 15 Motives for Murder

This murder motive generator for writers includes different types of killers and some of the leading causes of murders.

www.bryndonovan.com

 

[newclues]

It makes sense that they were killed with something other than the belts but then, what do the belts symbolize for the killer?

Thinking out loud here - belts from CT might be considered to be cheap junk for people of their wealth. The statues from many years ago were made from junk. Junkies would love to get into a pharmaceutical company. Junk + Apotex = Junkies?

It could be symbolic of their cheapness in that someone felt cheated by them as to what was fully owed to them.

 

[watcher9]

It's very sophisticated the way, they sat there. As if an experienced window dresser had put the two down like mannequins.

If I remember well, HS was sitting in a pool of her own blood, although her clothing above the waist was clean (the blood not having run down from her nose/face).

I was unable to access the article from The Star and was wondering if they determined where the blood HS was sitting in came from?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I was unable to access the article from The Star and was wondering if they determined where the blood HS was sitting in came from?

I also have been wondering about that. Was it her blood, Barry’s blood or a person unknown? Had either of them been slashed or stabbed to cause a loss of blood? If anyone has a link for this info, thanks in advance.

 

[dotr]

I was unable to access the article from The Star and was wondering if they determined where the blood HS was sitting in came from?

Unsure if the description is still accurate or not, info. from ''sources'' imo.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered-by-multiple-killers-private-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

2018 rbbm.

''Their wrists showed evidence that they had been, at one point, bound together. No rope or other materials that could have been used to tie their wrists were discovered, the source told CBC Toronto.

Their bodies were otherwise limp and their arms unbound when they were discovered, the source said. The day the Shermans were found police said that there was no evidence of forced entry into the home.

The team of private investigators believes that the Shermans were, in fact, killed on Dec. 13, two days before they were found. This conclusion is based on the fact that Honey was wearing the same clothes she was last seen in, on Dec. 13, according to the source.

Private investigators also believe that Honey struggled with her killer or killers. She had cuts on her lip and nose, and was sitting in a pool of her own blood when she was discovered. However, there was comparatively little blood apparent on her upper-body clothing, suggesting that she had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before being bound to the handrail in an upright position, the source said''.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

I’m also interested in the positioning of the bodies over the pool water. This had to take time for the killer. Enter the house, find them both, kill them both, position the bodies, perhaps clean up and leave undetected. ONE person did all of this alone?

 

[dotr]

I’m also interested in the positioning of the bodies over the pool water. This had to take time for the killer. Enter the house, find them both, kill them both, position the bodies, perhaps clean up and leave undetected. ONE person did all of this alone?

Unsure if these reports are accurate today or not, imo.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/barry-and-honey-sherman-were-murdered-by-multiple-killers-private-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

2018
''Private investigators believe that the billionaire Toronto couple found dead at their home in December were murdered by multiple killers, a source with direct knowledge of the parallel probe into their mysterious deaths told CBC Toronto.''

2018

Murdered Billionaire Couple 'May Have Had Many Assailants'

Private investigators believe the Shermans were killed by mutiple attackers

time.com

''Besides finding evidence to suggest multiple murderers killed the couple, the investigators reportedly believe that Honey was engaged in a violent struggle before her death, reports CBC. Investigators also claim the couple had been bound together for a time, and that they were killed on Dec. 13, two days before their bodies were first discovered.''

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks dotr. The many assailants makes more sense. Or, at least two. But whoever these assailants were, they had clear knowledge of the Sherman home. I wonder if they posed as potential home buyers in order to suss out the home in advance. Have all people who toured the house for potential purchase been checked out by LE?

Found this

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

One Saturday afternoon in May of 2019, when nobody was looking, a man slipped under the garage door of the late Barry and Honey Sherman’s home.

www.toronto.com

Excerpt
What he found inside the home was surprising. Despite a major police investigation in the case, and one by a private detective team working for the Sherman family, the man found furniture and cabinets intact, and photos, papers and files scattered around. Among them, an upcoming dinner engagement scrawled on a note; another, a list of planned showings of the house, which had been for sale. “To me, a lot of it looked like evidence. I was surprised.”

The Urbex man’s photos and videos also show beds, leather couches, tables and many keepsakes, plus a very large box of medications (mostly with Honey’s name on the label), some with Apotex labels, some not. The medications are for sleeping disorders, muscle pain and spasms, arthritis and chest pains.

 

[FromGermany1]

Thanks dotr. The many assailants makes more sense. Or, at least two. But whoever these assailants were, they had clear knowledge of the Sherman home. I wonder if they posed as potential home buyers in order to suss out the home in advance. Have all people who toured the house for potential purchase been checked out by LE?

Found this

An ‘urban explorer’ entered Barry and Honey Sherman’s home before demolition and saw papers that ‘looked like evidence’

One Saturday afternoon in May of 2019, when nobody was looking, a man slipped under the garage door of the late Barry and Honey Sherman’s home.

www.toronto.com

Excerpt
What he found inside the home was surprising. Despite a major police investigation in the case, and one by a private detective team working for the Sherman family, the man found furniture and cabinets intact, and photos, papers and files scattered around. Among them, an upcoming dinner engagement scrawled on a note; another, a list of planned showings of the house, which had been for sale. “To me, a lot of it looked like evidence. I was surprised.”

The Urbex man’s photos and videos also show beds, leather couches, tables and many keepsakes, plus a very large box of medications (mostly with Honey’s name on the label), some with Apotex labels, some not. The medications are for sleeping disorders, muscle pain and spasms, arthritis and chest pains.

In my eyes gross violation of parental privacy by their own 4 children. Completely incomprehensible.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Three of the children were from surrogacy

Barry and Honey Sherman: The mystery of the strangled billionaires

The couple, killed in a suspected double homicide, left an indelible mark on Canada.

www.bbc.com

Interesting background

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

From July 2008, our feature on the life of Canada’s generic drug king

torontolife.com

 

[Lonicera]

Hello , I had imagined the following scenario:
a building contractor who would have been ruined by the Shermans. He knows the couple well, he knows the house well. When he finds out they’re selling their house, that may be what triggers his revenge.

But even if the children have left documents from their parents abandoned, it is really shocking. In my family, we take care of our deceased.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

We need to nail down a motive.
- disgruntled employee
- someone to whom Barry owed money
- someone held a grudge for the Sherman's past actions
- religious reasons
- a past affair came to light

My mind is boggling. Why the staging? Why the pool? Why the belts? How many perps involved........

 

[Window21]

We need to nail down a motive.
- disgruntled employee
- someone to whom Barry owed money
- someone held a grudge for the Sherman's past actions
- religious reasons
- a past affair came to light

My mind is boggling. Why the staging? Why the pool? Why the belts? How many perps involved........

We have discussed these many times here on this thread and unfortunately, we can't pinpoint anything.
Every scenario you have just mentioned is all a possibility.
Personally, I have narrowed it down to 2 things, 1. Big pharm is involved. or 2. A very close relative. All JMO.

Edit: I don't think a past affair is on the radar, no mention of this ever at all, iirc....and I doubt it's a religious reason. JMO