CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[Window21]

The article is from 2008. Maybe, when Honey's arthritis got worse after 2008, her office didn't stay in the basement? Idk, from when the article was, which I remember. Can't find it.

That is possible, but there is an elevator to all 3 floors so I don't know why her arthritis would have hindered her in not going down to the basement level. I think there just wasn't a need for her to go down there. Everything she needed with the exception of the pool and sauna were available on the other floors.
If she parked in the garage regularly then she would just open the door to the home, turned left and head up the elevator. No need to go to the wing that the pool is at.

 

[FromGermany1]

I wonder if she meant... she went on a tour at one point, and saw the pool... and then later they sat in a 'den' close to her 'workstation'? This is the upstairs floorplan (it's a PDF file that has to be opened), it shows H's office within the master bedroom suite, and across from a room that's called 'exercise room', but I believe we've seen sofas and a TV in there (to make it more of a 'den'?):

I for my part remember: HS' office in the basement, BS' in the master bedroom in one corner.
I know, at the time I wondered, why Honey hadn't a nice office upstairs in the house, but a corner for her desk along the hallway beside the pool area. (Shoulder shrugging ....)

 

[FromGermany1]

If I remember well, this picture was also part of the article about "office in the basement near the pool". Written by a man, who knew the family on a distant level (his father knew Barry, he himself knew the Sherman children).

 

[Lonicera]

What seems extraordinary to me in this double murder is the staging. Is it an illusion or not?
I don’t think so. But how could one or more hit men obey such precise orders? Getting a similar belt from Barry’s closet? And Honey’s transport to the basement, that must have been difficult? Much grief for this couple lachement murdered in their home. Don’t get me wrong: I don’t like to see older people attacked. I don’t like that.

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thé staging also bothers me. Were they hanged over the water in the pool or over the walkway around the pool? I also cannot see a paid hitman taking all that trouble. I googled « staging murder victims » and all that came up was serial killers. Wouldn’t a hitman require more money to do all that staging? But money was no problem here.

 

[dotr]

View attachment 372322

If I remember well, this picture was also part of the article about "office in the basement near the pool". Written by a man, who knew the family on a distant level (his father knew Barry, he himself knew the Sherman children).

This is the article but i can no longer access it to see if it has the bit about the basement office or not, will try to find another link.. fwiw

Who Killed the Billionaire Founder of a Generic Drug Empire?

The chairman of Apotex and his wife were brutally murdered last year in their Toronto home.

www.bloomberg.com

Who Killed Canada's Pharmaceutical Giants? - Longreads

The investigation into the murder of two Canadian pharmaceutical giants remains inconclusive.

longreads.com

''For Bloomberg Businessweek, Matthew Campbell narrates their triumphant lives and horrific end, and he looks at some prime suspects in the police’s inconclusive investigation.''

 

[deugirtni]

View attachment 372322

If I remember well, this picture was also part of the article about "office in the basement near the pool". Written by a man, who knew the family on a distant level (his father knew Barry, he himself knew the Sherman children).

That photo above is from this article:

How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

Ok sorry, not exact pic, but looks to be pic from same day.

 

[deugirtni]

.

 

[deugirtni]

View attachment 372322

If I remember well, this picture was also part of the article about "office in the basement near the pool". Written by a man, who knew the family on a distant level (his father knew Barry, he himself knew the Sherman children).

This is the article but i can no longer access it to see if it has the bit about the basement office or not, will try to find another link.. fwiw

Who Killed the Billionaire Founder of a Generic Drug Empire?

The chairman of Apotex and his wife were brutally murdered last year in their Toronto home.

www.bloomberg.com

Who Killed Canada's Pharmaceutical Giants? - Longreads

The investigation into the murder of two Canadian pharmaceutical giants remains inconclusive.

longreads.com

''For Bloomberg Businessweek, Matthew Campbell narrates their triumphant lives and horrific end, and he looks at some prime suspects in the police’s inconclusive investigation.''

The Bloomberg article by Matthew Campbell is the fellow with the dad with same name 'Barry', who knew Barry Sherman. Can't find it in there either.

 

[FromGermany1]

It must be an article from before the crime, I think.

 

[Monkey House]

Quick thought/question

Do you remember this article where KD published a bunch of emails between JS and BS?

Well at one point they're talking about how Apotex had lost a drug patent case in the summer of 2017 against a rival company.

“We might have to pay the 580 million judgment in January”

Any idea which company/case this was that Apotex lost?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Quick thought/question

Do you remember this article where KD published a bunch of emails between JS and BS?

Well at one point they're talking about how Apotex had lost a drug patent case in the summer of 2017 against a rival company.



Any idea which company/case this was that Apotex lost?

AstraZeneca

AstraZeneca Canada Inc. v. Apotex Inc. - SCC Cases

scc-csc.lexum.com

 

[ldlager]

To me that seems logistically very unlikely. The other neck marking(s?) was found under the belt, IIRC, so that would mean.. hang them/one, loosen the belt or move it or remove it to strangle with the thinner ligature, then the belt goes back into place,... all at the edge of the pool with not much room between the railing and wall.... not to mention getting each of them there to that spot in the first place while alive. And no defensive wounds, apparently(?)

While it may seem unlikely, it is not accurate for anyone to state definitively, based on the information that has been released that they were strangled before the belts were attached.

 

[ldlager]

That is possible, but there is an elevator to all 3 floors so I don't know why her arthritis would have hindered her in not going down to the basement level. I think there just wasn't a need for her to go down there. Everything she needed with the exception of the pool and sauna were available on the other floors.
If she parked in the garage regularly then she would just open the door to the home, turned left and head up the elevator. No need to go to the wing that the pool is at.

IIRC the “lift” in the floor plans is not big enough to be an elevator for people- ie it was a small lift to transport small things between floors

 

[casesensitive]

That is possible, but there is an elevator to all 3 floors so I don't know why her arthritis would have hindered her in not going down to the basement level. I think there just wasn't a need for her to go down there. Everything she needed with the exception of the pool and sauna were available on the other floors.
If she parked in the garage regularly then she would just open the door to the home, turned left and head up the elevator. No need to go to the wing that the pool is at.

I agree, the Sherman's didn't seem to make use of the pool based on statements from their cleaning lady. It was also stated that Honey always parked on the right side of the house to an entrance which led down a hall and eventually into the kitchen. That was were her car was parked that night. I think it was Frank D'Angelo who said that Barry always parked his car at the front door, because "he was too lazy" to park it in the garage.

His statement about Barry's parking habits is something I find very relevant, as I've said before. Just as Honey usually did not use the garage, and Barry was known not to usually use it, I have to wonder why Barry switched his usual habit, and went to the garage that night. (the weather report didn't warn about significant snow accumulation, and Honey wasn't concerned). There is no video surveillance in front of the Sherman's house, that we know of, and TPS seem to only have video of the night walker that doesn't show him actually close to entering, or leaving the Sherman property. I suspect that there is no video of BS initially parking his car at the front of the house either, and if he was confronted.

If Barry was confronted as he parked his car at the front of the house, and was forced to drive to the garage, that might suggest that more than one killer was involved. How could one perp know exactly when BS was coming home, and that he would park in the garage instead of in front of the house? It seems obvious that BS was attacked as soon as he entered the house from the garage (gloves and house documents dropped on the floor). Someone inside the house or possibly in the car with Barry could act that quickly.

Yet there is only one suspect per TPS after all these years...the night walker, who neighbours couldn't identify, and therefore he shouldn't have been in the area around the time of the murders. That''s It?! Greenspan's investigation resulted in finding that it was likely that more than one hired killers was involved. If TPS don't have video of people entering or leaving the Sherman house, I guess we will never know.

 

[deugirtni]

While it may seem unlikely, it is not accurate for anyone to state definitively, based on the information that has been released that they were strangled before the belts were attached.

How would one propose the thin line could have been underneath the belts? How was Honey's belt successful in killing her if the pressure point was at the back of her neck?

Seated on the floor, she is tipped back at the waist to a position that I estimate from the photos is a 20- to 30-degree angle. (Ninety degrees would be seated upright.) The belt that is looped around her neck has its pressure point at the back of her neck. Decomposition (the bodies were there for 36 hours) could account for her body shifting down somewhat, but likely not too much. While there are rare cases of people hanging themselves in a seated position, the second pathologist to look at the bodies (Dr. David Chiasson, hired by the Sherman family) determined this is not what happened, according to the Star’s sources.
....
Like Honey, Barry is seated, rear end on the pool deck, his torso tipped back but at a less severe angle than Honey. His head is slumped forward slightly, with the belt tension under his chin.

Where the belt tension is located is important, sources say, because the later examination by the forensic pathologist hired by the Shermans factored that in to his examination — determining that the location of the belt, plus the fact that there was relatively little weight pulling against the belts, made it highly unlikely that one or both committed suicide.
....
Chiasson also took note of a thin line underneath where the belts were wrapped around the Shermans’ necks, indicating to him that they were killed with a thin ligature — the belts were merely used to hold the bodies up afterward. This indicates the Shermans were killed prior to the belts being attached to their necks. No thin ligatures were found at the crime scene.

Pickup, the first pathologist, had made these observations, but it did not cause him to make a determination on the manner of death. It took Chiasson, the more experienced pathologist, to make the determination of double homicide.
....

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

(Note: For those that can't access The Star's article, it is accessible via pressreader.com by entering search term Barry Sherman crime scene photos)

 

[Lonicera]

Thank you for all these very interesting press articles .
I noticed this passage that explains us that the killer(s) could enter this vast house without too much difficulty: it was enough to have the information .
The house had nine entrances, and friends say the couple would think nothing of opening the front door for a stranger who rang the bell. There was also an outdoor lockbox with a compartment for a key, so the Shermans’ real estate agent could hold viewings when no one was in. The lone surveillance camera at the house was located, oddly enough, in the pool area, but it hadn’t been turned on for a long time, perhaps years." Who Killed the Billionaire Founder of a Generic Drug Empire?

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Thanks to all above for the parking habits. Am I correct in saying that Barry never parked in the garage but on the night of the murder he did park in the garage? If so, he must have been forced/ambushed into the garage.

 

[Badgerette]

I think the staging of the bodies wasn’t as intentional as were all trying to decipher. The killer strangled them both and wanted to cover it up as murder suicide and the pool railing was a location that fit the narrative hence the belts. Why would he bother staging the bodies like that? the M/S narrative almost worked if TPS were left to their own devices…and in that wasted time he was able to get far far away.

 

[Window21]

I think the staging of the bodies wasn’t as intentional as were all trying to decipher. The killer strangled them both and wanted to cover it up as murder suicide and the pool railing was a location that fit the narrative hence the belts. Why would he bother staging the bodies like that? the M/S narrative almost worked if TPS were left to their own devices…and in that wasted time he was able to get far far away.

I believe it was very intentional. The killer/killers could have killed them anywhere and just left them to die wherever. I honestly don't think the murderer was trying to make it look like a M/S. I think he/she was sending a message and was also a way of humiliation. JMO