CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

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  • #301
I didn’t
How would one propose the thin line could have been underneath the belts? How was Honey's belt successful in killing her if the pressure point was at the back of her neck?

Seated on the floor, she is tipped back at the waist to a position that I estimate from the photos is a 20- to 30-degree angle. (Ninety degrees would be seated upright.) The belt that is looped around her neck has its pressure point at the back of her neck. Decomposition (the bodies were there for 36 hours) could account for her body shifting down somewhat, but likely not too much. While there are rare cases of people hanging themselves in a seated position, the second pathologist to look at the bodies (Dr. David Chiasson, hired by the Sherman family) determined this is not what happened, according to the Star’s sources.
....
Like Honey, Barry is seated, rear end on the pool deck, his torso tipped back but at a less severe angle than Honey. His head is slumped forward slightly, with the belt tension under his chin.

Where the belt tension is located is important, sources say, because the later examination by the forensic pathologist hired by the Shermans factored that in to his examination — determining that the location of the belt, plus the fact that there was relatively little weight pulling against the belts, made it highly unlikely that one or both committed suicide.
....
Chiasson also took note of a thin line underneath where the belts were wrapped around the Shermans’ necks, indicating to him that they were killed with a thin ligature — the belts were merely used to hold the bodies up afterward. This indicates the Shermans were killed prior to the belts being attached to their necks. No thin ligatures were found at the crime scene.

Pickup, the first pathologist, had made these observations, but it did not cause him to make a determination on the manner of death. It took Chiasson, the more experienced pathologist, to make the determination of double homicide.
....



(Note: For those that can't access The Star's article, it is accessible via pressreader.com by entering search term Barry Sherman crime scene photos)
I never said I believed they were strangled with the belts. I believe they were strangled with something else. My only point was that it was possible that they were strangled with a ligature AFTER the belts were attached. I am currently wearing a 1 inch wide leather belt. My neck is approx. 4 inches high. So there was a lot of room on the neck for someone to strangle them aside from the space taken up by the belt. In fact there is a 75 % chance that the ligature line was not in fact under the belts when they were murdered. After the murders, the bodies could have slumped so that the belts partially obscured a portion of the ligature marks, who knows?If they were strangled after the belts were attached, no need for the killer to have to drag bodies and hoist them into a sitting position.moo
 
  • #302
Thanks to all above for the parking habits. Am I correct in saying that Barry never parked in the garage but on the night of the murder he did park in the garage? If so, he must have been forced/ambushed into the garage.
Why would a killer who was presumably already in the house risk come out of the house and forcing Barry to drive to the garage? Why not just wait inside the house for Barry to walk through the door?
 
  • #303
I never said I believed they were strangled with the belts. I believe they were strangled with something else. My only point was that it was possible that they were strangled with a ligature AFTER the belts were attached. I am currently wearing a 1 inch wide leather belt. My neck is approx. 4 inches high. So there was a lot of room on the neck for someone to strangle them aside from the space taken up by the belt. In fact there is a 75 % chance that the ligature line was not in fact under the belts when they were murdered. After the murders, the bodies could have slumped so that the belts partially obscured a portion of the ligature marks, who knows?If they were strangled after the belts were attached, no need for the killer to have to drag bodies and hoist them into a sitting position.moo
Great point, and now I have a terrible thought.....warning don't read this if your sensitive.
What if the murderer looped the belt around their necks and led them around like a dog. Then strangled them at the pool area? Anything is possible, I think this was a very personal killing and strangulation is a very personal way to kill someone according to all of the crime experts.
 
  • #304
I believe it was very intentional. The killer/killers could have killed them anywhere and just left them to die wherever. I honestly don't think the murderer was trying to make it look like a M/S. I think he/she was sending a message and was also a way of humiliation. JMO
But who sends a -true- message without fearing, it would point to themselves as a killer/killers?
 
  • #305
I also think it was a very personal killing. Very up close and personal. In their faces. I think the staging was personal as well. I also think they knew the killer or if a hitman, the hitman told them that X sent me and here’s why. They were placed side by side because the killer held something against both of them. JMO
 
  • #306
Why would a killer who was presumably already in the house risk come out of the house and forcing Barry to drive to the garage? Why not just wait inside the house for Barry to walk through the door?
Do you have a link that says the killer was already inside the house? Thanks in advance.
 
  • #307
re- post
''What happened inside Barry and Honey Sherman's home the day the billionaires were killed? The Star's Kevin Donovan shares the most likely scenario.''
 
  • #308
re- post
''What happened inside Barry and Honey Sherman's home the day the billionaires were killed? The Star's Kevin Donovan shares the most likely scenario.''
DOTR, YOU ARE A STAR. THANK YOU.:)
 
  • #309
  • #310
Why would a killer who was presumably already in the house risk come out of the house and forcing Barry to drive to the garage? Why not just wait inside the house for Barry to walk through the door?
Why not be in the car with Barry when he came home?
 
  • #311
An interesting read. Apologies if it’s already here previously



Enemies​

Yet there was another side to the Shermans. The company he controlled had filed over 1,200 lawsuits against the Canadian Federal government alone, to get their companies drugs to market.

Lawsuits against competitors were just as frequent and were a way of doing business. Many people who did not have the deep pockets to hire teams of lawyers to fight back, deeply disliked Barry Sherman. Barry had so many corporate enemies, that 16 years before their murder he said this to a book writer covering their rise to power and wealth.

"The branded drug companies hate us. They have private investigators on us all the time. The thought once came to my mind: why didn't they just hire someone to knock me off?"
 
  • #312
Why not be in the car with Barry when he came home?
Did Barry have a habit of bringing colleagues home from work? Or, relatives for that matter?
 
  • #313

In addition, police are turning to the cloud for help.

Citing a search warrant filed in a Kansas City court, KSHB-TV reports that detectives are asking Amazon for access to its cloud storage so that they can obtained data from the apartment's Alexa device.


According to KSHB, police believe the killer may have been inside the victims' apartment for several hours and hope Alexa managed to capture some of the conversations that may have unfolded during that time.
-.-.-

Wouldn't it be nice, if they had had an Alexa in the home?
 
  • #314
Why would a killer who was presumably already in the house risk come out of the house and forcing Barry to drive to the garage? Why not just wait inside the house for Barry to walk through the door?

That makes sense, but how did the killer inside the house know what door Barry would walk through? This is a huge house and the front entry, right side entry and garage entry couldn't be monitored by one killer inside the house. How could he know what door Barry would use, and the exact time he would enter in order to accost him immediately? I think the dropped gloves and house documents inside the hall from the garage entrance show that Barry was subdued immediately upon him entering the house.

One explanation could be that BS parked in his usual spot at the front door, was confronted, and forced to drive to the garage. Or that someone was already in the car with BS directing him to the garage entrance, or that there were multiple killers inside the house who could moniter the main entrances and intercept him immediately. jmo
 
  • #315
My parents have an indoor pool in their house and because of the humidity in the room, it’s extremely well insulated and any doors leading to the room have a tighter seal. Which makes it much more sound proof. And a great place if you don’t want anyone to hear you.
 
  • #316
That makes sense, but how did the killer inside the house know what door Barry would walk through? This is a huge house and the front entry, right side entry and garage entry couldn't be monitored by one killer inside the house. How could he know what door Barry would use, and the exact time he would enter in order to accost him immediately? I think the dropped gloves and house documents inside the hall from the garage entrance show that Barry was subdued immediately upon him entering the house.

One explanation could be that BS parked in his usual spot at the front door, was confronted, and forced to drive to the garage. Or that someone was already in the car with BS directing him to the garage entrance, or that there were multiple killers inside the house who could moniter the main entrances and intercept him immediately. jmo
Not sure, but it's possible the killer inside the house could've, first, (after having already taken care of Honey), been watching out a window for his vehicle... and secondly, he could've heard the mechanical operation of the garage door opening, which would've then allowed him time (as a presumably fit person) to get down to that garage door leading into the house.
 
  • #317
That makes sense, but how did the killer inside the house know what door Barry would walk through? This is a huge house and the front entry, right side entry and garage entry couldn't be monitored by one killer inside the house. How could he know what door Barry would use, and the exact time he would enter in order to accost him immediately? I think the dropped gloves and house documents inside the hall from the garage entrance show that Barry was subdued immediately upon him entering the house.

One explanation could be that BS parked in his usual spot at the front door, was confronted, and forced to drive to the garage. Or that someone was already in the car with BS directing him to the garage entrance, or that there were multiple killers inside the house who could moniter the main entrances and intercept him immediately. jmo
I already suggested that Barry was PERHAPS forced to drive into the garage but people all said that the killer was already inside the house. Does anyone have a link that tells us whether (OR NOT) the killer was waiting inside the house? Thanks in advance. Forgive me but I confuse easily. :oops:
 
  • #318
  • #319
  • #320
Helping bad guys




Excerpt
Close friends and his entire family were well aware that away from Apotex, Sherman carried on a high-stakes game with a cast of characters strikingly different from the buttoned-down scientists and bureaucrats he spent most of his life with. They say Barry Sherman was a contrarian. Fellow philanthropist and businessman Ed Sonshine says that if the world seemed to be against someone, Sherman would back the man. “He loved helping financially guys who other people told him were bad guys,” Sonshine says. Many were larger-than-life individuals who, for one reason or another, had trouble finding more traditional backers.
 
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