CANADA Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #19

[ldlager]

Yes.. what if they didn't go back far enough? Did they review the entire day from when he first arrived? Or just around the time he was to leave? Or ... ??

Of course we have no idea if LE even looked at the external videos, and if so, for what periods

 

[ldlager]

I meant did they examine both cars for hairs, fibres, all the usual stuff? Fingerprints, mud, grasses, everything. Blood even. Everything!

I assume if the police tow away the cars for forensic examination they would do a forensic examination. But we have no idea what they actually did or what they found

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

The NW could just be a homeless person hoping to find shelter in a garage or wherever. I'm losing faith in the NW being the murderer. JMO

 

[dotr]

Oct. 27, 2022 updated 1 hr ago rbbm.

Barry and Honey Sherman homicide detectives seek information in 5 countries

Detective Constable Dennis Yim would not name the countries in court, saying it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them.

www.thestar.com

''What emerged during the hearing is a new international focus for the probe, according to Yim.''

''To date, police have prepared requests for two separate countries by way of treaty agreements with Canada. Yim refused to identify the countries, except to say they are among the 34 countries that have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) to share information with Canada relating to criminal probes. The countries are: Argentina, Austria, Australia, Bahamas, Belgium, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, South Korea, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay. Canada has a similar treaty with a 35th jurisdiction, Hong Kong, but that sharing agreement is currently “suspended,” according to federal officials.''

Yim testified that he may soon ask for information from three other countries that are not part of the MLAT agreement. In those cases, with no set process, he is relying on relationships between justice officials in Canada and the foreign jurisdiction. Yim refused to identify those countries. He said other officers with experience in these non-treaty requests have told him they are sometimes refused because the jurisdiction is not “obligated” to provide information. “So you can ask, but you may or may not receive anything,” Yim told the court.

 

[ldlager]

Oct. 27, 2022 updated 1 hr ago rbbm.

Barry and Honey Sherman homicide detectives seek information in 5 countries

Detective Constable Dennis Yim would not name the countries in court, saying it would alert the killer or killers that police are on to them.

www.thestar.com

''What emerged during the hearing is a new international focus for the probe, according to Yim.''

''To date, police have prepared requests for two separate countries by way of treaty agreements with Canada. Yim refused to identify the countries, except to say they are among the 34 countries that have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty (MLAT) to share information with Canada relating to criminal probes. The countries are: Argentina, Austria, Australia, Bahamas, Belgium, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary, India, Israel, Italy, South Korea, Mexico, the Netherlands, Norway, Peru, Poland, Portugal, Romania, Russia, South Africa, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, Thailand, Trinidad and Tobago, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay. Canada has a similar treaty with a 35th jurisdiction, Hong Kong, but that sharing agreement is currently “suspended,” according to federal officials.''

Yim testified that he may soon ask for information from three other countries that are not part of the MLAT agreement. In those cases, with no set process, he is relying on relationships between justice officials in Canada and the foreign jurisdiction. Yim refused to identify those countries. He said other officers with experience in these non-treaty requests have told him they are sometimes refused because the jurisdiction is not “obligated” to provide information. “So you can ask, but you may or may not receive anything,” Yim told the court.

I find it interesting that Japan is NOT on the list of MLAT countries...

 

[Window21]

I find it interesting that Japan is NOT on the list of MLAT countries...

Exactly what I thought!!!

 

[Window21]

IIRC I thought there was someone else overseas when these murders happened. Was it FD? or a son in law? Can anyone recall or am I wrong on this point?
I know JS just arrived back and the daughter was in Mexico (iirc).

 

[ldlager]

IIRC I thought there was someone else overseas when these murders happened. Was it FD? or a son in law? Can anyone recall or am I wrong on this point?
I know JS just arrived back and the daughter was in Mexico (iirc).

JK was in New York. Daughter in Mexico. BS was planning to go to Japan

 

[dotr]

The detail about the frozen footprint slipped my mind (pun intended) but wondering now if the imprint has been recorded or not?
rbbm
2020

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

''The trainer left. The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.''

''Stern told police that while Banks was downstairs she telephoned Mary Shechtman in Florida. Shechtman was Honey’s sister and best friend. Shechtman had just left for Florida the day before.''

''There were upcoming trips and dinners arranged, even a special one on Sun. Dec. 17 (two days after the bodies were discovered) with Joel Ulster and his family, and Ulster, Barry’s best friend, was flying in for the dinner. There were plans for a trip to Japan in March and Israel in April.''

 

[ldlager]

The detail about the frozen footprint slipped my mind (pun intended) but wondering now if the imprint has been recorded or not?
rbbm
2020

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

''The trainer left. The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.''

''Stern told police that while Banks was downstairs she telephoned Mary Shechtman in Florida. Shechtman was Honey’s sister and best friend. Shechtman had just left for Florida the day before.''

''There were upcoming trips and dinners arranged, even a special one on Sun. Dec. 17 (two days after the bodies were discovered) with Joel Ulster and his family, and Ulster, Barry’s best friend, was flying in for the dinner. There were plans for a trip to Japan in March and Israel in April.''

Thanks for the reminder that MS left the country literally the day after the murders. I had forgotten the timing

 

[newclues]

I also thought of straightjackets. And heroin addicts will use their belts to get a vein for injecting. This is becoming more and more like a personal murder situation. JMO

It also brings to light restraint symbolism from psychiatry like straitjackets, belts, zip ties, etc.

 

[newclues]

I find it interesting that Japan is NOT on the list of MLAT countries...

Cryptocurrency trails are sometimes hard to follow and can go across many countries. They can take time to unravel and open accounts that have very strong encryption code keys. The dark web also comes to mind.

 

[newclues]

JK was in New York. Daughter in Mexico. BS was planning to go to Japan

The U.S. and Mexico are on the list but not Japan. However, the article does mention that they would also be looking at non-MLAT countries too but that it would be much harder. Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters

 

[newclues]

The detail about the frozen footprint slipped my mind (pun intended) but wondering now if the imprint has been recorded or not?
rbbm
2020

‘Someone has killed my clients’: Newly released documents detail the day Barry and Honey Sherman were found dead, and what police did after

Even as friends and associates of Barry and Honey Sherman insisted they were murdered, Toronto police continued to pursue the theory that Barry killed Honey, then himself, newly released police

www.toronto.com

''The trainer left. The furnace repair man came upstairs after an hour and also left. As is often the case in search warrant documents made public, some of his statements are redacted with large black lines. As the man walked to his van he spotted frozen footprints on the partially heated ramp to the underground garage. They looked old, he thought.''

''Stern told police that while Banks was downstairs she telephoned Mary Shechtman in Florida. Shechtman was Honey’s sister and best friend. Shechtman had just left for Florida the day before.''

''There were upcoming trips and dinners arranged, even a special one on Sun. Dec. 17 (two days after the bodies were discovered) with Joel Ulster and his family, and Ulster, Barry’s best friend, was flying in for the dinner. There were plans for a trip to Japan in March and Israel in April.''

This article has much greater detail in that it gives the names of more people than in other articles. Did the footprints show the possibility that the killer entered down through the garage ramp right after BS's car went in?

 

[Window21]

Ok thanks. I'm gonna make a list here:

JS: Just arrived back in the country (Japan)
MS: left the country day after the murders (Florida)
Daughter: was in Mexico
JK: Was in New York

Anybody else that I forgot? If we can think of where apparently everyone was or alibis for people, then I will update the list.
Where was BK? Alexandras husband...anyone know?

 

[dotr]

Barry and Honey Sherman homicide detectives seek information in five countries

Insiders say Trudeau may freeze out some provinces in health-care deals + Sherman murder detectives take search overseas

Understaffed Ontario hospitals, federal health-care funding and the Sherman murders.

www.thestar.com

By Manuela Vega
Oct. 28, 2022
''Nearly five years after billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman were killed in their North York home, Toronto police are broadening the scope of their investigation. The domestic probe — banking and cell records, examining whereabouts and alibis — has led police to seek information from five other countries, the lone detective working full-time on the case told a Toronto court. With more than 3,000 police documents still partially sealed, Kevin Donovan reports on the latest revelations about the investigation.

• Watch for: Detective Constable Dennis Yim said Toronto police won’t travel outside the country, but will prepare written requests for information. Canada’s Justice Department will send the requests to officials in the target countries.

• Go deeper: Police have failed to identify a person caught on video near the Sherman home during the murders, Yim said. Here’s what we know about that “suspect.”

• More: Canadian law allows court information to be sealed if making it public would affect the “administration of justice.” The Star has argued that police have been too quick to seal information in this case. Major releases of information, including details of mistakes made in the probe, have resulted.''

 

[No_Stone_Unturned]

Ok thanks. I'm gonna make a list here:

JS: Just arrived back in the country (Japan)
MS: left the country day after the murders (Florida)
Daughter: was in Mexico
JK: Was in New York

Anybody else that I forgot? If we can think of where apparently everyone was or alibis for people, then I will update the list.
Where was BK? Alexandras husband...anyone know?

KW was apparently in Toronto area?

 

[deugirtni]

Ok thanks. I'm gonna make a list here:

JS: Just arrived back in the country (Japan)
MS: left the country day after the murders (Florida)
Daughter: was in Mexico
JK: Was in New York

Anybody else that I forgot? If we can think of where apparently everyone was or alibis for people, then I will update the list.
Where was BK? Alexandras husband...anyone know?

Where was AP?

 

[dotr]

KW was apparently in Toronto area?

Iirc, KW was in Toronto at a CAMH meeting after which he went home and watched the British tv show, Peaky Blinders.

We Finally Know When the Peaky Fookin Blinders Hit Netflix

By order of the streaming service: We have to wait months for season 6.

www.menshealth.com

ETA

‘I had absolutely nothing to do with it,’ Barry Sherman’s cousin says

Cousins were ordered to pay Sherman $300,000 the week before they were found dead

www.hamiltonnews.com

''I had absolutely nothing to do with Barry and Honey's death. Zero. I want to put that on the record," Winter said in an interview with the Star Thursday.''
''As to an alibi, during the period in mid-December when the Shermans were likely killed, Winter was at a12-step program for Cocaine Anonymous the evening of the day they were last seen alive, and at work as a construction site manager the next day. In between, he said he watched an episode of Peaky Blinders on Netflix, and slept. He lives by himself.''

 

[deugirtni]

Ok thanks. I'm gonna make a list here:

JS: Just arrived back in the country (Japan)
MS: left the country day after the murders (Florida)
Daughter: was in Mexico
JK: Was in New York

Anybody else that I forgot? If we can think of where apparently everyone was or alibis for people, then I will update the list.
Where was BK? Alexandras husband...anyone know?

Judi Gottlieb was said at the beginning, via media, to have been the realtor who discovered the bodies, when in fact it was Elise Stern from a different real estate company. Very confusing.

See pic below, the for-sale sign shown on the property at the time of the murders, was Judi Gottlieb.

And there are several instances of Gottlieb being mentioned in various articles, but there is this one that states she was in Florida at the time.

At 10:30 a.m., two real estate agents and a couple interested in purchasing the house arrived. The house was listed for sale by agent Judi Gottlieb. Gottlieb was away in Florida, and an other agent went in her place. The other agent present represented the prospective purchasers.

After touring the upper floor, the agents and the clients went downstairs and walked along a corridor leading to the pool. Gottlieb’s assistant went first. She walked through the doorway to the pool room and recoiled. At the other end of the room she saw two bodies, backs to the pool, held in a sitting position by something tied around their necks. She turned and ushered the other agent and the clients back, making an excuse, saying this part of the home was off limits at the moment.

The discovery was made shortly after 11 a.m. Friday. Gottlieb’s assistant called up to the housekeeper, telling her what she had seen. Then Gottlieb made a phone call, seeking direction on what to do. The Star could not determine who she called.

How the investigation into the deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman turned from murder-suicide to double homicide

Added: But yet the MLS listing seemed to be in Elise Stern's name (I pasted it into a Word file, because it would disappear from MLS, but don't know if I'm allowed to post that.) The MLS listing only lists Stern, and not Gottlieb. The sign only lists Gottlieb and not Stern. Stern's company made a FB post about the new listing, and to contact Stern for more info. Stern sent out an email invitation to an open house, with all of those photos. etc.

Asked why the couple chose to list in winter — considered to be a poor time to enter the real estate market — the Sherman’s real estate agent Judi Gottlieb declined to comment.

“The Sherman’s were very dear friends of mine for many, many years and we’re all in shock,” she wrote in an email. “More than this, I’m not prepared to talk about.”

Police are investigating the 'suspicious' deaths of Toronto billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman