Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[Tortoise]

Looks like that car may have been taken away also by this picture https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...aw1B0E0jZdJ_FaiYUEkxdZVe&ust=1514135929618319

 

[Tortoise]

This picture just shows the tail end of the pale car (next to the telegraph pole) sitting at the top of the ramp

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...aw1B0E0jZdJ_FaiYUEkxdZVe&ust=1514135929618319

 

[Tortoise]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...aw1B0E0jZdJ_FaiYUEkxdZVe&ust=1514135929618319

 

[Tortoise]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=i&r...aw1B0E0jZdJ_FaiYUEkxdZVe&ust=1514135929618319

 

[pamelado2]

This shows both cars in one shot. That car on the left parked in a weird way. Why would you pull in so that your door was on the opposite side of the car? Or is that just me? In the Google image taken in the nicer weather the vehicle close to the front door faces the other way. That way you don't have to walk around the car to get in.
I sure wish we had a VI to tell us if that was normal for them.

Also looking at the floor plan, the garage and pool are underground but not under the rest of the house. (Note the spiral staircase placement).
Truthfully the ideal place to take someone to murder them. You wouldn't worry about anyone hearing anything even if there were a slip-up.

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[otto]

The other lights in the photograph of the Sherman pool are *on*, however there is no light coming from the black box in the upper right corner wall in their pool room.. the picture you have posted above - it is not the Sherman pool, correct?

The box in the upper right corner of the room looks like a camera, but it's large so it might be from the time that the house was built. That could mean that there is a camera in the pool room, and it is disconnected because it's more than twenty years old.

The attached picture is the pool at the Sherman house.

 

[otto]

There could be any number of medical issues that could prevent or discourage her from carrying another baby. Could be a reproductive system issue that arose after the first child, or something that came up after, or it could be an unrelated health issue.

After my third, I was diagnosed with a number of unrelated health issues (kidney and a few other things) and told not to have more kids.


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Miscarriages ...

"A self-professed workaholic, he does worry about the future of his company, recognizing that it would be impossible for his children to duplicate his obsessive commitment to Apotex. Casually he informed me that Lauren, his oldest daughter, is his wife’s only “natural” child. Honey suffered several miscarriages after her birth. When it looked as if they couldn’t have more children, they decided against adoption and opted for surrogacy. As a committed Darwinian, he naturally favoured the preservation of his genetic material. In the early 1980s, surrogacy had just become an option in the U.S. It’s likely that his son, Jonathon, was the first child in Canada born to a surrogate mother. “It worked fine.”

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

 

[otto]

Do you have a link stating Mr. Sherman was atheist?

Could he have been agnostic?

My understanding is that atheist denies God, where as agnostic denies the concept of God. Using the term God would put him in the atheist category.

"In his autobiography, he described himself as recognizing no God and rejecting religion and free will in favour of “logical deduction.” He wrote about the instinct to co-operate with others, particularly relatives, when it was to “mutual advantage.” There can be no such thing as “altruism, kindness, generosity or morality,” he says, because humans act only in pursuit of their own happiness."

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

 

[deugirtni]

A nihilist, emotionally cold and narcissistic, extremely driven to win, a workaholic who it appears devoted himself primarily to building his business success, minimal close social contacts, concerned about his legacy... who retired several years ago and was no longer active in the day to day business and at 75 was likely experiencing some age related decline...

I can certainly see someone with those personality traits finding aging intolerable. The physical and mental changes that come with aging, and seeing a future of further decline... it wouldn't surprise me a bit if he decided to go out on his own terms. If life is without meaning, other than his personal drive to succeed, which was now a part of his past, why carry on? Why deal with memory loss, ED, incontinence, declining hearing and vision, etc.?

He was thinking about death and his mortality twenty years ago. His unfinished memoir was all about himself and his work, with barely a couple of lines mentioning his family. What does a man like him do when his work is no longer there? Most people have religious and/or family and social ties, and are able to find life meaningful in any number of ways. It doesn't appear that he had any of that.

Exit stage left.

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An employee was quoted in the newspaper as saying that he came in every day, and worked long hours. I don't believe he was ready to stop working, or be kicked to the curb just yet. Nothing has been said about any bad health in regard to B, other than I believe, a bad back.

 

[deugirtni]

If this information is true, that they drove home in separate cars after a meeting with the architect of their new home, IMO it could be what led to this tragedy. I keep thinking the move and sale of their current home was something HS wanted but BS was against.

Sorry, you've lost me... what do you mean?

B left straight from work to attend the meeting (according to the article), while H drove to the meeting from home - they both attended said meeting and drove home - and became deceased sometime thereafter. Interesting that the story claims no author, and does not divulge its sources, however, it said the two still had their winter coats and boots on, so.. sounds like someone may have been waiting inside the home?

 

[JDG]

Frank Magazine is a satirical magazine, makes fun of the rich and famous as well as political and other scandals in Canada.

I doubt they are using satire about such a horrid crime but you cannot take what they say without a grain or two of salt.

Once again, NOT an official source.

Probably correct about the meeting with the architects, as they were building a new home. Puts an end to the idea that BS didn't want to move, etc. IMO

As for where/why do they not park in the garage? From the real estate listing, now removed, I think they had parking for approx 13 cars, 6 in the garage. The garage may have been used mostly for guests, VIPs etc who needed the privacy to enter and exit the home. From the original photographs (Toronto Star) you could see two vehicles parked on what I would call parking pads in front of the home. That makes much more sense to me, for them to drop the car out front and use either the front door or a side door to enter the house. So much easier than trekking in from the garage through the basement etc.

I, too, have arthritis but park in front of my home. With heated steering wheels and seats, quality coats and gloves, its not that bad to hop into ones car, even in winter.

At the beginning, when the police 'source' spoke about suicide/murder, it was probably due to the FACT that police attend a lot of domestics and when a woman is killed, its often the husband who is the perp. it was a 'rush to judgement' so to say but it wasn't fact as there hadn't even been an autopsy yet.

I really doubt its a suicide/murder, IMO. Its much more likely to be a double murder which may or may not ever be solved.

I do hope the police have evidence that allows them to arrest and imprison the perp(s) at some point in time. IMO

 

[deugirtni]

Correct this is not the Sherman's pool.

Looking at the one in the top corner of the room adjacent to the Sherman's pool, I would say it is a very odd placement for a light. It looks like a camera to me, or at least something rigged up to an alarm system like a motion sensor.

Yes, that is what I was saying, that it looks to me like it could be a camera, yet there was a newspaper article saying the home had none, inside or out (but not sure where the info is coming from). Motion sensors are not usually so large and obtrusive in my experience. jmo

 

[JDG]

Sorry, you've lost me... what do you mean?

B left straight from work to attend the meeting (according to the article), while H drove to the meeting from home - they both attended said meeting and drove home - and became deceased sometime thereafter. Interesting that the story claims no author, and does not divulge its sources, however, it said the two still had their winter coats and boots on, so.. sounds like someone may have been waiting inside the home?

Frank Magazine never divulges sources nor do they (as far as I know) ever name the authors. Its a satirical, gossip magazine.
Many of their 'sources' are people in the regular media who cannot give out their 'tidbits' via regular channels.

 

[otto]

If this information is true, that they drove home in separate cars after a meeting with the architect of their new home, IMO it could be what led to this tragedy. I keep thinking the move and sale of their current home was something HS wanted but BS was against.

That's very interesting. Maybe my speculations yesterday were close to the mark when I connected the most significant event in their lives at the time of this murder suicide to putting the house on the market and the recent demolition of the house.

If this happened right after a meeting with the architect, I think a conversation with the architect is really important. It wouldn't surprise me if a conflict was somehow related to cost and extravagance.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Not sure what you mean by "natural mother." Surrogacy does not necessarily mean she was not the biological parent, just that she did not carry or give birth to the children.

I meant to put quotations around natural mother. I don’t know if Honey was the bio mother of the other three or not. But, in my opinion, none of the siblings look similar.

 

[otto]

This article says Honey weighed 180 pounds and he suffered from a bad back.

It seems so hard to imagine he could do the contortions required for this.

The cars were parked on the street, not the garage.

If this article is true, they had their winter outdoor clothes on.

Why would they go down to the pool area in winter outerwear?

If they were wearing winter outerwear, how did he strangle her with a belt?

Did he use hands? Then she would have fought back,

The whole thing is strange.

Unless the coats and boots are made up details.

We think their cars were on the street, however

Using belts to create a pulley system should make the task easier.

http://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html

 

[Snoop Sister]

Yes, that is what I was saying, that it looks to me like it could be a camera, yet there was a newspaper article saying the home had none, inside or out (but not sure where the info is coming from). Motion sensors are not usually so large and obtrusive in my experience. jmo

Cams are definitely not that big...nor are motion detectors

 

[Grey-St]

My understanding is that atheist denies God, where as agnostic denies the concept of God. Using the term God would put him in the atheist category.

"In his autobiography, he described himself as recognizing no God and rejecting religion and free will in favour of “logical deduction.” He wrote about the instinct to co-operate with others, particularly relatives, when it was to “mutual advantage.” There can be no such thing as “altruism, kindness, generosity or morality,” he says, because humans act only in pursuit of their own happiness."

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

Jonathon also called his father an atheist in his eulogy. It seems to be a well accepted characteristic of BS.

 

[deugirtni]

RSBM

For some reason, I keep thinking about the men's leather belts that were used to hang them. I hope LE tested them for DNA. If Barry had used them, and they were in his closet, the killers might have retrieved them, so that it would look like Barry used his own belts, but if they are new, with no traces of DNA except that placed there by the victims at the time of death, then it might mean the killers brought them with them. The same goes for the rope used to tie the belts to the railing -- I think I read that was part of the method. Did LE find more of it in the house or garage ? or was it new rope brought into the house that night ? These things could be traced, and possibly LE could even find out what stores in the area sold them. That could be a break if amateurs really did do this, but I suspect professionals would have used items from within the house, and may have even retrieved them during a practice run of breaking into the house before Wed. night, or it could have been someone who had the cover of having occasion to work in the house, or being a trusted visitor.

Leaving their jackets and boots on, says to me that they were ambushed at different times, and killed separately. Also having both jackets pulled down in the back, seems like something they may have quickly done to restrain them. The killers may have never entered the rest of the house, using only the garage and pool area. They likely wore gloves, hats, maybe even some kind of cloth bootie over shoes so as to leave no trace, but it is possible that somewhere they made even one mistake, that will lead LE to them. For the sake of justice, if this was a double murder, and I think it was, I hope that LE gets some kind of break, or that the private family investigation turns up something, so that justice will be done for the Shermans. It is also possible sadly, that it was a professional hit, or one very well carried out by amateurs that will never be solved. IMO

I don't recall reading about rope. I thought the belts themselves had been tied to the pool railing, which has now been reported (in the Frank article) to have been 36" from the floor, and that the belts had been used as the 'ligatures'. Were there also ropes?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Miscarriages ...

"A self-professed workaholic, he does worry about the future of his company, recognizing that it would be impossible for his children to duplicate his obsessive commitment to Apotex. Casually he informed me that Lauren, his oldest daughter, is his wife’s only “natural” child. Honey suffered several miscarriages after her birth. When it looked as if they couldn’t have more children, they decided against adoption and opted for surrogacy. As a committed Darwinian, he naturally favoured the preservation of his genetic material. In the early 1980s, surrogacy had just become an option in the U.S. It’s likely that his son, Jonathon, was the first child in Canada born to a surrogate mother. “It worked fine.”

https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

I guess I should of quoted more in my original post. Would have caused less confusion