Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #2

[DarkSkink]

Because she died first.

Did She?

 

[Snoop Sister]

The housekeeper, who worked there during the day said when asked by LE that she and other staff ( maybe health care workers, not sure ) did not go to the pool area. They had no reason to. Maybe they had a special pool service looking after not only the pool, but the rest of the area, and the hot tub, as well. I cannot give a source for the housekeeper's explanation, but I remember reading it very early on in the Mainstream Media news. It was the realtor, going from room to room getting ready for the planned open house later that day, and who was also looking for the Shermans in order to talk about the open house or other business, who found them Fri. morning. IMO

I have been following the Sherman’s death since almost right after it happened. The interview with the housekeeper was never released. Please post a link or don’t post because you are making it sound as fact.

 

[Tortoise]

There are many possible motives, which is why so many believe it was murder. It's a legitimate theory given the numerous enemies he had, and the possible money involved.

As for the trouble someone would go through, look at Douglas Garland, who executed a plan to kidnap and dispose of a retiring couple. It does happen.

I suspect we will find out what happened. I keep going back to the initial reports of the murder-suicide, and the reaction of LE only AFTER the family complained. They sat on some sort of glaring evidence for 2 days before seemingly begrudgingly letting homicide take over.

2 days. It wasn't a missing persons case.

BBM

Not only motive. If LE could see that Honey's death was murder, Barry had injuries from a struggle with Honey, a separate scene of death or injury, or her body had additional injuries, for example, why did Barry bother going to the trouble he did? He doesn't strike me as the type to set himself up to fail at something apparently so important to him.

Why would he want the additional legacy of not only killing his wife but being too cowardly to admit it?

Do you think perhaps he wasn't aware there was evidence he killed her or hurt her, or that it didn't matter to him - even though he was going to such lengths to make it look like suicide?

That is the inconsistency that needs an explanation IMO.

Given that it was the intention to make this look like a double suicide (whoever did it) I'm not surprised that police thought that one of them at least was likely to be a suicide before the full facts could be established. It's more surprising that there was evidence that Honey's obviously wasn't. Who out of Barry or a killer is likely to have had more opportunity to come up with an alternative plan to deal with an unexpected scene? If it were Barry's solution to an unintended death it would likely have been devised specifically to take account of the unexpected scene - leaving her where she was and developing staging around that.

I've ruled out deliberate murder-suicide staging in my own mind. If anyone wanted Honey's death to look like a murder or even unintentional killing, they only had to leave her dead somewhere else. A killer wouldn't go to the extra trouble of Barry wanting to cover up his own wife's death as a suicide, given the potential for leaving more evidence the more involvement one has at a scene.

 

[Snoop Sister]

Quote Originally Posted by Carioca View Post
Thanks, Sanz, for reposting. This is IMO the best interview to date. BTW I am not on the wall in this case. IMHO Double Murder, up close and personal, follow the money. I have several friends in Toronto and they agree. Absolutely NO one believes the suicide story...

These are totally irrational statements. I have friends in Toronto as well and they don't belive it was murder. Even more irrational is no one believes the suicide theory. Apparently, many do believe the “suicide story.”

 

[human]

I have been following the Sherman’s death since almost right after it happened. The interview with the housekeeper was bpnever released. Please post a link or don’t post.

I read the same thing somewhere that the staff did not go to the pool area. The realtor found them. Is there a media section on this case?

If the realtor was scheduled to come on Friday, I imaging the pool area was cleaned earlier. But then again, I would think that at least Honey used the pool everyday.

 

[human]

I wonder if Barry might have started having personality changes due to something such as Alzheimer's. Some people have been known to get paranoid and violent. I personally know someone who was nice and sweet but now is hateful and says "I could kill you" frequently and means it.


Maybe something like lewy body dementia, that Robin Williams had. Maybe Barry didn't want to go alone.

That does happen , but as far as we know, no one has mentioned it. He was in contact with a lot of people

 

[Snoop Sister]

I read the same thing somewhere that the staff did not go to the pool area. The realtor found them. Is there a media section on this case?

If the realtor was scheduled to come on Friday, I imaging the pool area was cleaned earlier. But then again, I would think that at least Honey used the pool everyday.

Yes, it was said that the house keeper did not go to the pool area. However, it was not a direct quote from the housekeeper or LE so I was asking for the source.

 

[human]

BBM

Not only motive. If LE could see that Honey's death was murder, Barry had injuries from a struggle with Honey, a separate scene of death or injury, or her body had additional injuries, for example, why did Barry bother going to the trouble he did? He doesn't strike me as the type to set himself up to fail at something apparently so important to him.

Why would he want the additional legacy of not only killing his wife but being too cowardly to admit it?

Do you think perhaps he wasn't aware there was evidence he killed her or hurt her, or that it didn't matter to him - even though he was going to such lengths to make it look like suicide?

That is the inconsistency that needs an explanation IMO.

Given that it was the intention to make this look like a double suicide (whoever did it) I'm not surprised that police thought that one of them at least was likely to be a suicide before the full facts could be established. It's more surprising that there was evidence that Honey's obviously wasn't. Who out of Barry or a killer is likely to have had more opportunity to come up with an alternative plan to deal with an unexpected scene? If it were Barry's solution to an unintended death it would likely have been devised specifically to take account of the unexpected scene - leaving her where she was and developing staging around that.

I've ruled out deliberate murder-suicide staging in my own mind. If anyone wanted Honey's death to look like a murder or even unintentional killing, they only had to leave her dead somewhere else. A killer wouldn't go to the extra trouble of Barry wanting to cover up his own wife's death as a suicide, given the potential for leaving more evidence the more involvement one has at a scene.

Makes sense to me. You explain it far better than I tried to do.

 

[Snoop Sister]

I think it might be time to start thread #3?

 

[Gardenista]

I'm not sure why the opinion of an ex-FBI investigator is holding so much weight in this case since he was not there on the scene and is not part of this investigation at all. The Toronto officers on scene at the Sherman house were so calm when approached by reporters and I believe it when the officer says there is no danger to the public. These investigators have likely seen many, many variations of suicide similar to what was discovered at the Sherman house.

If they were targeted, there would be no danger to the public

 

[kiwi50]

I read the same thing somewhere that the staff did not go to the pool area. The realtor found them. Is there a media section on this case?

If the realtor was scheduled to come on Friday, I imaging the pool area was cleaned earlier. But then again, I would think that at least Honey used the pool everyday.

After all of Honey’s surgeries for arthritis, I think it quite possible the personal trainer gave her exercises in the pool. Possibly significant.
Wonder what days of the week he came, we know he was coming tha Friday, unless he was just passing and saw the police.

 

[dotr]

Re post of lengthy article and pic of Barry's attire..
https://torontolife.com/from-the-archives/barry-sherman-bitter-pill-from-the-archives/

This article was first published in the July 2008 issue of

Toronto Life, when Barry Sherman was embroiled in a lawsuit brought by his cousins, who claimed they were owed a piece of his pharmaceutical company. That suit was dismissed in late September.

Barry Sherman parks his 2005 Chrysler Sebring convertible in the spot closest to the main door of the Apotex headquarters in Weston.

Honey and Barry Sherman in the backyard of their York Mills home.

Barry and Honey Sherman live in an unassuming, modern house on one of those mature York Mills streets where ranch-style bungalows are being replaced by French châteaux. Barry had refused my interview requests, but his wife, Honey, had agreed to speak to me. On the day I visited, their front door was opened by a hearty bleached-blond housekeeper wearing khaki shorts and Crocs. She took me to wait near the kitchen, where Barry Sherman stood in a blue terry cloth robe at the counter in his bare feet, reading the paper and eating breakfast.

“What are you doing here?” he asked. Either Honey had not told him about the interview or he’d forgotten. He listened to my explanation, then went back to his paper. No small talk. Honey appeared, dressed not unlike her housekeeper in a white T-shirt, green pants and white Crocs, no jewellery. She’s short and solidly built, with heavy eyebrows, sable hair and the look of someone who plays tennis daily. It once was one of her sports, along with skiing, but now she plays golf when she can, her athletic life curtailed by severe arthritis.
She led me down a hall beside a glassed-in swimming pool. The house had an overstuffed 1980s look, with lots of leather, glossy stone floors and a spiral staircase. We sat across from each other in the den, close to her workstation piled high with papers.

 

[human]

After all of Honey’s surgeries for arthritis, I think it quite possible the personal trainer gave her exercises in the pool. Possibly significant.
Wonder what days of the week he came, we know he was coming tha Friday, unless he was just passing and saw the police.

I wonder about the pool swimming. Did she swim alone? It is curious that the camera in the pool area was disabled somehow.

Since it is a lap pool, do you think she swam laps? Wouldn’t one want someone watching the pool while swimming is happening?

Why would a pool camera be disabled?

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Why would an older man choose hanging as a way of murder then suicide? There are many other ways to end life that are quicker and less involved. Unless he was in very good physical condition, the method he chose would have been exhausting. I would think pharmaceuticals would be one of his first choices.

Over the past ten years, the most common method of suicide in Canada has been hanging (44%), which includes strangulation and suffocation; followed by poisoning (25%) and firearm use (16%).

Males were most likely to commit suicide by hanging (46%) while females most often died by poisoning (42%) (Chart 2). Males (20%) were far more likely to use firearms than females (3%).

(Emphasis mine)

https://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/82-624-x/2012001/article/11696-eng.htm


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[Snoop Sister]

After all of Honey’s surgeries for arthritis, I think it quite possible the personal trainer gave her exercises in the pool. Possibly significant.
Wonder what days of the week he came, we know he was coming tha Friday, unless he was just passing and saw the police.

Good point! I can attest that aquatic exercising is much easier than other types of exercise programs.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

BBM

Good post. Good points. People survive a lot worse crashes than 90 miles an hour into a concrete abutment.

My younger brother did. He hit a bar ditch at close to 100 miles an hour when he was 18. He was street racing another car and lost control. He hit the bar ditch, went airborne and sheared off a telephone pole about 3 quarters of the way up it. He came out of the car and fell on the ground then the car landed on top of him. He suffered a horrible cut on his forehead that literally peeled the skin on the top of his head back, a broken leg and a bruised body and an even more bruised ego.

My BIL was riding in a car that was hit head on by a semi truck at highway speed. Amazingly, all four in the car survived, although a couple had very serious injuries.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[JayFriend]

Okay, here is the blue car, and here is Honey's car on Saturday the 17th. When you zoom in, there appears to be a dusting on the roof of her car, but, there is nothing on the blue car.

https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/billiona...sherman-mourned-by-jewish-community-1.3726527

As was speculated earlier, HS must have arrived home from the meeting earlier. And we saw her car towed away, but not his car. Could it be that the killers apprehended her as she arrived and took her inside, killed her, then waited for him to arrive later?

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I wonder about the pool swimming. Did she swim alone? It is curious that the camera in the pool area was disabled somehow.

Since it is a lap pool, do you think she swam laps? Wouldn’t one want someone watching the pool while swimming is happening?

Why would a pool camera be disabled?

bbm

Maybe she liked to swim in the nude?

Just speculation on my part.

 

[Snoop Sister]

As was speculated earlier, HS must have arrived home from the meeting earlier. And we saw her car towed away, but not his car. Could it be that the killers apprehended her as she arrived and took her inside, killed her, then waited for him to arrive later?

Is it possible that one of the cars was moved out of the garage? Just throwing it out there....

 

[tarabull]

"The indoor lap pool is where the Shermans were found hanging on Friday afternoon. (HOUSSMAX.CA) "

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/20...sherman-sued-builders-of-north-york-home.html

:thinking:

.....so is it one of these railing they were hanging from???

still :thinking:

.........................................