Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[DarkSkink]

I wish we knew what there interactions were like in the week running up to their deaths. I don’t really understand going to meet your architect if you planned to kill yourself and murder your wife, why would you waste your time going to a meeting about a house you knew would likely never be built?

Why hang with belts if you had planned it? Why not buy a gun, or get some pills?

It's highly likely it wasn't planned.

 

[DarkSkink]

No if this was rage, things would not have been this clean and neat.

We don't know it was clean and neat at all. Something told investigators right away that one killed the other. If they were both hanging, how do you determine that without something being very messy and out of place?

 

[DarkSkink]

hmmm yes that is what everyone has been saying, but...... what prevents them from just standing up?

If you've ever started blacking out, you'll know you go down, not up. You become disoriented and dizzy and essentially lose your balance.

You can have the presence of mind to move your hands, like if you're falling you can put your arms out to protect your head, but if you are fainting, you are going down.

 

[DarkSkink]

Hadn't pictured that, but makes sense. Other than the reports they were in a sitting position.

Wasn't it a semi-seated position?

 

[gdalton]

Wasn't it a semi-seated position?

We've also had reports their legs were straight out...which could prevent you from taking the weight off your neck, especially with your arms trapped in your jacket sleeves.

A lot of these rumours...we don't know what's made up or what has actually leaked from the police.
Probably never know now, since the Police are especially wary of upsetting the family now.

 

[DarkSkink]

IF she was killed, first presumably by him, and then he hung himself, why the jackets???

... because she may not have been killed first, but incapacitated, possibly in a violent manner.

That would make LE think murder-suicide at first glance.

 

[gdalton]

I think the suit is still pending.

Can't find the article now, but a whistler-blower at Apotex claimed the company had inside knowledge of Teva's products.

The Apotex CEO was getting info from his GF who was working at Teva US.
They were a couple and living together in the U.S. before they got their "opposing" jobs.

The fact that Desai is still CEO at Apotex tells you has the full backing of the company board (meaning Sherman's backing).
Any other CEO would have been fired immediately.

 

[JDG]

Lauren, with her son Cedar was off to the side. Kaelen was the blondish lady who recited 'you are my sunshine' and Alexandra was the lady who sang. Jonathan gave the eulogy. Then, Honeys sister Mary.....whose distress was very palpable. I believe Kaelen is about to marry and Alexandra just had a new baby.

 

[otto]

Astounds me that at their ages they would be wanting to build another 20000 sq foot house, even more so after what happened last time they built.
If one partner was opposed to the idea, that could cause ructions.

Perhaps Barry thought 10000 sq feet would be big enough, especially if he didn’t enjoy hosting 80 people for dinner regularly.
If it is murder/ suicide I think it was unplanned. Some straw broke the camels back.

That's the magic question isn't it. Would a modest, frugal 76 year old man choose to build an enormous self-indulgent palace that did not meet his needs? I don't have any problem recognizing that the interests of the couple could be in conflict regarding building their retirement home. Should there be an elevator or would it be better if there were no stairs in a home for elderly Barry Sherman, what's the point of high ceilings if it doesn't add to natural light, do sky lights actually compensate for natural light and at what cost, other than drawing and visualization of someone else's ideas what good are architects,

What was the new house going to cost?
I think that might give clarity to the question of murder because although the wealth of Barry Sherman is in the billions, that money is his company, not his back pocket. Did she overstep with money and he got pissed off?

What is a "ructions"?

 

[otto]

Would the house on Old Colony Road be sold as a tear down? I mean before the deaths.

Edited to add. The house was old and dated, so probably would be a teardown?

Are you asking whether the seven million house they died in should be torn down? That would be as stupid as tearing down the house that the Sherman's destroyed in Forest Hills.

No, the several million dollar home with two swimming pools and nine bathrooms should not be torn down, eh.

 

[otto]

And anyone could have hidden down there for quite a while, bathroom, kitchen...large area apart from the house. Perhaps, Honey came home first and was killed. Then, Barry came home later to a murderer(s) staged scene and knew that he would likely be killed. Maybe revenge? Someone knew the home. Laid in wait perhaps. Could he/she/they have gotten in with a garage door opener? My one mechanic said that he could literally drive down any road and hit any garage door opener in a car and different garages open up. He said that many people use the same codes, such as 1234. He also said it is also easy to swipe someone's code. Scary thought. Easy access. The litigations and the money makes motive for murder plausible.

There's the pool area,and then there's the mother-in-law suite. They are far enough from each other with stairwells and exits that I would find it extraordinary that there would be a commotion between the pool area and the suite. Surely someone murdering the Shermans is not stopping for a snack in the mother-in-law kitchen.

The couple arrived home almost at the same time. One was killed in one part of the house, taken to the pool area and staged as a hanging death from the railing beside the pool. The other person who was known to be in the house was found dead next to her. There are no signs of a break in. Regardless of claims that they left their side door open for health services home care, even they knew how to lock their doors at night. That is, throat cancer health care come to the house during work hours.

Why would anyone bother with the garage? It was multicar underground garage. Even if someone got into the garage, what then, get into the house? What then? Go upstairs to where the cars are parked and then murder the wife, then what?

It's quite a stretch to view this as a double murder.

 

[otto]

From the plans its a retirement home for them. Elevator to all three levels or was it two? Beautiful gardens with sliding doors and lots of bright sunlight coming in. I guess with their income, heating/cooling isn't a problem but I noticed that both homes have a lot of glass walls and skylights. Some in the new home were to be very large and I wouldn't think it would be easy to keep the place warm.

Guess they were off to Florida for the winters, or that was the plan. You know, when a spouse (Honey) has had 30 yrs to do her own thing, then Barry takes a 'retirement of sorts' often the one at home gets frustrated with the newly retired. They are under foot, interfere with your normal day to day stuff. That can build up some friction, as they often say 'what are WE doing now?'

BBM

Do you have a link to the plans for the new house?

 

[kiwi50]

That's the magic question isn't it. Would a modest, frugal 76 year old man choose to build an enormous self-indulgent palace that did not meet his needs? I don't have any problem recognizing that the interests of the couple could be in conflict regarding building their retirement home. Should there be an elevator or would it be better if there were no stairs in a home for elderly Barry Sherman, what's the point of high ceilings if it doesn't add to natural light, do sky lights actually compensate for natural light and at what cost, other than drawing and visualization of someone else's ideas what good are architects,

What was the new house going to cost?
I think that might give clarity to the question of murder because although the wealth of Barry Sherman is in the billions, that money is his company, not his back pocket. Did she overstep with money and he got pissed off?

What is a "ructions"?

Ructions definition and meaning | Collins English Dictionary
https://www.collinsdictionary.com › ructi...
ructions in British. (ˈrʌkʃənz) plural noun. a violent and unpleasant row; trouble. Both activities have caused some ructions.

 

[otto]

I really think it's more than preserving his reputation and legacy. I think they desperately want to know what so horrifically and tragically happened to their deeply loved parents. Why not be as thorough as possible?

You have to assume that something tragic and horrific happened to the parents in order to put desperation for criminal act above the obvious answer of marital conflict that resulted in murder suicide.

Police were thorough and the family is acting like a bunch or of spoiled brats because they don't like the police conclusion. Family have made such a big show of posturing, complaining to the mayor and hiring a questionable lawyer and his retiree since they were delivered the bad news. One is left sitting on the edge of the seat waiting for any scrap of information that supports double murder ... but alas, it's not to be had. I hope the family doesn't spend too much money encouraging their "investigative" team to concoct conspiracy theories.

 

[otto]

The house was getting old and dated. If I had the kind of money to buy that home, probably would have enough to tear down and build what I wanted.

Here is a link to a very interesting article on development in Forest Hill.
https://torontolife.com/city/mcmansion-wars-neighbour-versus-neighbourh-forest-hill/

BBM

Seriously? If you have enough money to buy a 400,000 house, you have enough money to buy it and tear it down?

No. Even if you did, it's a bit of a disgrace to do so. Wasn't the house that was torn down somewhat gifted to them - friends who helped them avoid any public information about the house transfer? This was no regular sale, this was a sale between to people who knew each other. The wife then demolished the house.

Why did they buy the house in the first place if they didn't like it? Were they only interested in the property? If so, why did they get any sort of special privilege on the purchase. Clearly they didn't value the home ... they were like all the other vultures on the market for an inner city lot.

Did the husband like the house, or did he think it should be demolished?

What happened with the demolition of the Forest Hill house?
What was the cost of the house that the wife wanted to build?

 

[Jennifer17]

I am their age and I cannot imagine buying a house, having it demolished and waiting maybe two years before it was ready to move into. And then going through all the dramas and law suits that they did with the existing house. You would think that people at that stage of life would not want to go there again.

 

[otto]

It just not registering for me. If this was really the case, why now, at this point? Wouldn't the argument have ensued when the property was bought? When the construction plans were drawn up? When the house was demolished? Etc?

I just can't reconcile that BS decided, over square footage or custom finishings, that he was going to kill HS. I think if this was a murder-suicide, (which I remain undecided on) it would be over something much more sinister that we are no where close to being privy of.

The property was transferred into the wife's name in November 2016, and demolished two weeks prior to the deaths.

We're not talking about custom fittings, we're talking about commercial building sky lights that spanned something like 27 feet and sliding doors of something like 27 feet that opened to an indoor pool. I'm sure it would have been somewhat nice, but at the same time probably gaudy, kitch, self-indulgent, ugly, pretension, and completely opposite of what they needed.

Murder suicide about a difference of opinion, and desire to preserve reputation.

 

[dotr]

BBM

Do you have a link to the plans for the new house?

Re post.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html

[h=1]The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built[/h]

 

[otto]

http://www.timescolonist.com/apotex...g-latest-order-of-canada-inductees-1.23132727
Apotex founder Barry Sherman among latest Order of Canada inductees
[FONT=&]The Canadian Press
[/FONT][FONT=&]DECEMBER 29, 2017 01:00 PM[/FONT]
[...]
The Order of Canada cannot be awarded to someone after their death, but Sherman was nominated more than six months ago. The Order of Canada advisory council, which decides who gets the award, granted it to him at their November meeting. Payette signed the appointment prior to his death.
A Rideau Hall spokeswoman says a family member can stand in for Sherman at the investiture ceremony, likely some time in 2018.
[...]

Who nominated him? Was it Trudeau or someone in the Liberal party who has a questionable relationship with financing from the Shermans? If so, the nomination should be withdrawn.

Regardless, unless Barry Sherman can be ruled out for the murder of his wife, his nomination should be withdrawn. Isn't that how it works ... someone is a suspect until such time as being ruled out? Surely with that fancy family investigative team they can demonstrate to the public why Barry Sherman should be ruled out for the murder of his wife.

Other than the liberal party, someone he works with, gives money to, or family, why would he be nominated to the order of Canada? What neutral party did this?

 

[Tortoise]

The property was transferred into the wife's name in November 2016, and demolished two weeks prior to the deaths.

We're not talking about custom fittings, we're talking about commercial building sky lights that spanned something like 27 feet and sliding doors of something like 27 feet that opened to an indoor pool. I'm sure it would have been somewhat nice, but at the same time probably gaudy, kitch, self-indulgent, ugly, pretension, and completely opposite of what they needed.

Murder suicide about a difference of opinion, and desire to preserve reputation.

BBM, his reputation as a murderer?