Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #3

[darring21]

100% agree, all those could be valid reasons for putting a property in one spouse's name. I wouldn't think twice about it... Except...

the current house is titled in both names. So why the difference? Any of those reasons for holding title in Honey's name would be just as valid with the current house.

And that the current house was bought 20+ years ago and they just never changed it just doesn't cut it. It would be a very minor task for an attorney to draw up and file paperwork to remove Barry from the title, and they certainly had regular contact with attorneys and likely had their estate plan reviewed and updated annually.

So why the difference?

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I believe one reason is that when he dies, she would get to continue in the house without it going through the probate process like the rest of their marital assets. Kind of a guess, though.

 

[Tighthead]

I believe one reason is that when he dies, she would get to continue in the house without it going through the probate process like the rest of their marital assets. Kind of a guess, though.

Assets held in jointure don’t require probate and there would be no transfer or CG tax. That way you don’t have to guess who dies first.

I think the house was likely in her name alone because that way the permitting, build and variance process wouldn’t require any signing and authorizations from him.

I think that if they separated word would have leaked by now, and I’m sure journalists have dug around. Had she filed for divorce there would be a record. There is no evidence suggesting they have separated, but Coyote has made the same point about 4 times on this thread.

Barry may have been prevented from transferring his half interest to his wife as to do so in the face of litigation would be seen as a fraudulent conveyance and cause more problems.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Assets held in jointure don’t require probate and there would be no transfer or CG tax. That way you don’t have to guess who dies first.

I think the house was likely in her name alone because that way the permitting, build and variance process wouldn’t require any signing and authorizations from him.

I think that if they separated word would have leaked by now, and I’m sure journalists have dug around. Had she filed for divorce there would be a record. There is no evidence suggesting they have separated, but Coyote has made the same point about 4 times on this thread.

BBM
Lol, sorry, don't mean to beat a dead horse! It just keeps bugging me because it doesn't make sense.

Do permits, variances, build paperwork, etc. all require the signatures of all owners? When we built, or had significant work done, only one homeowner's signature was needed, but I'm in the US.

Also, a limited power of attorney would easily accomplish the same thing. Again, would take an attorney about 15 minutes to draw up. Not to mention, almost everything is done with electronic signatures now anyway, so he wouldn't have to leave his desk to sign anything necessary.

Given their social position and age, maybe it wasn't a formal separation or divorce. Maybe stay married, make the frequent public and social appearances that you have to, but other than that live separately. Lol, like Bill & Hilary. The public happy couple and the private separated couple.


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[Jealoushe]

The presenter were Christopher Souster, Lawyer; Chad Lefevre, of the Canadian Cannabis Chamber of Commerce; and Lindsay Blackett. They are involved in the process of legalizing mj use in Alberta, so I am sure they are able to support what they presented. They did not give a list of references for the presentation, and I did not request one.

What they said was “There were disappointed that no medical or expert practitioners were involved in the process”.
Meaning the federal government did not consult experts or seek out medical practitioners who were accredited and had done placebo controlled studies.

Most people self-medicate or use it recreationally, which means it cannot be used in independent research. THC has gotten the majority of attention, but there has not been much investigation into CBD’s effects. Also they stated for the most part there is no control over what chemicals etc. mj is grown in today.

Interested in your studies and what medical research you are basing your opinion on.

Is it ok to share on this thread? If so I will.

 

[AllyJane]

Rightfully so, the Toronto real estate market has cooled, its possible they hoped to negotiate a lengthy possession date, and they owned other properties. But as finances were obviously not a consideration, the question mark arose why would a senior couple comfortable in a home for 30 years did not wait to list near the completion of their new dream home? Others have suggested the new home registered in only Honey's name to be indicative of separation of assets and each planing on going their seperate ways.

While the listing of the home may not have absolutely any connection to their deaths, the timing is still curious.

My parents are of the Sherman's generation and they always listed the home in my mom's name to protect it in case there were lawsuits or bankuptcy in my father's business. This is a common practice.

HS and BS were building a home together in Forest Hill so why would they both go to the architect meeting together if they were planning to separate. Plus HS's email to her friends about her coming down to Florida on the 18th and BS on the 25th shows they are still together. (Again my parents used to go down separately as my dad had to stay behind for work).

It is interesting that we haven't heard any chatter from friends or relatives that state anything negative about the couple (violence, rocky marriage, etc.) Even the employees are tight lipped. In this day and age of instant camera time if you have juicy gossip (true or not), I am surprised that someone hasn't wanted to cash in on adding drama. To me it may be an indication on the marriage being a solid one. OMO

 

[Hazel]

I don’t think the new home being registered in Honey’s name alone is indicative of them separating. It could be down to estate planning, protection from lawsuits or other financial reasons.

BBM
Lol, sorry, don't mean to beat a dead horse! It just keeps bugging me because it doesn't make sense.

Do permits, variances, build paperwork, etc. all require the signatures of all owners? When we built, or had significant work done, only one homeowner's signature was needed, but I'm in the US.

Also, a limited power of attorney would easily accomplish the same thing. Again, would take an attorney about 15 minutes to draw up. Not to mention, almost everything is done with electronic signatures now anyway, so he wouldn't have to leave his desk to sign anything necessary.

Given their social position and age, maybe it wasn't a formal separation or divorce. Maybe stay married, make the frequent public and social appearances that you have to, but other than that live separately. Lol, like Bill & Hilary. The public happy couple and the private separated couple.

(respectfully snipped and coloured by me)
I noticed in the new house floor plans, they would no longer be sharing the bathroom, like in the current house. Of course that is no indicative that they were living separate lives, but to me it shows that BS didn't care much for luxuries or perhaps it just made him happy to see her happy and wanted to please her.

Notice the small closet and bathroom for him (light blue), as opposed to the 2 closets and bathroom for her (pink).

The office could have been for both of them, so I coloured it purple, same as the master bedroom.

Source for new house floor plans = Page 120 = https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf

 

[tarabull]

Notice the small closet and bathroom for him

RSBM

It's called downsizing :blushing:

:sorry:

 

[Hazel]

It's called downsizing :blushing:

:sorry:

The :couch: could come in handy also.
illowfight2:

 

[pamelado2]

(respectfully snipped and coloured by me)
I noticed in the new house floor plans, they would no longer be sharing the bathroom, like in the current house. Of course that is no indicative that they were living separate lives, but to me it shows that BS didn't care much for luxuries or perhaps it just made him happy to see her happy and wanted to please her.

Notice the small closet and bathroom for him (light blue), as opposed to the 2 closets and bathroom for her (pink).

The office could have been for both of them, so I coloured it purple, same as the master bedroom.

Source for new house floor plans = Page 120 = https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf
View attachment 128385

Now see, that's what I just call smart. [emoji39]

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[Gardenista]

(respectfully snipped and coloured by me)
I noticed in the new house floor plans, they would no longer be sharing the bathroom, like in the current house. Of course that is no indicative that they were living separate lives, but to me it shows that BS didn't care much for luxuries or perhaps it just made him happy to see her happy and wanted to please her.

Notice the small closet and bathroom for him (light blue), as opposed to the 2 closets and bathroom for her (pink).

The office could have been for both of them, so I coloured it purple, same as the master bedroom.

Source for new house floor plans = Page 120 = https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf
View attachment 128385

Thank you for doing this. Agree, not sharing a bathroom has nothing to do with intimacy or lack thereof. I think it's wonderful.

 

[deugirtni]

100% agree, all those could be valid reasons for putting a property in one spouse's name. I wouldn't think twice about it... Except...

the current house is titled in both names. So why the difference? Any of those reasons for holding title in Honey's name would be just as valid with the current house.

And that the current house was bought 20+ years ago and they just never changed it just doesn't cut it. It would be a very minor task for an attorney to draw up and file paperwork to remove Barry from the title, and they certainly had regular contact with attorneys and likely had their estate plan reviewed and updated annually.

So why the difference?

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Has it been established that the S's current residence was in both B&H's names? Or are we guessing?

 

[Snoop Sister]

Do you have a source for this, because from my experience neither of these are true. Who were the experts? Did they supply medical research for these points?




hardly screams suicide...

There are several studies, which suggest that the human brain continues to develop until the around the age of 25. Additionally, the studies indicate that the developing brain is negatively affected by the use of marijuana. Also, studies indicated that psychosis and other mental health issues may develop as the result of regular marijuana use while the brain is still developing.

A few sources are as follows:
http://www.thecannabist.co/2014/11/17/marijuana-young-brain-study/23251/

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/lif...ffects-of-marijuana-on-teens/article21127612/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3930618/

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/marijuana/what-are-marijuanas-long-term-effects-brain

 

[gregjrichards]

(respectfully snipped and coloured by me)
I noticed in the new house floor plans, they would no longer be sharing the bathroom, like in the current house. Of course that is no indicative that they were living separate lives, but to me it shows that BS didn't care much for luxuries or perhaps it just made him happy to see her happy and wanted to please her.

Notice the small closet and bathroom for him (light blue), as opposed to the 2 closets and bathroom for her (pink).

The office could have been for both of them, so I coloured it purple, same as the master bedroom.

Source for new house floor plans = Page 120 = https://www.toronto.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/8f7a-C_of_A_TEY_Decisions_June_28_2017.pdf
View attachment 128385

It is very sad this dream home will never be built or enjoyed by the Sherman’s.

 

[gdalton]

Has it been established that the S's current residence was in both B&H's names? Or are we guessing?

I don't think it means anything being in Honey's name...she could have been the one doing most of the planning/meeting etc.
Was the Florida condo in Honey's name?
Would owning Real Estate in the U.S. mean that Barry would have tax exposure with the IRS?

I'm actually surprised neither of the houses were listed under numbered holding companies (i.e. 50 Colony Road Ltd.).

 

[Tighthead]

If you put the house in a holdco you lose the CG exemption. It’s rarely done.

 

[SeesSeas]

I don't think it means anything being in Honey's name...she could have been the one doing most of the planning/meeting etc.
Was the Florida condo in Honey's name?
Would owning Real Estate in the U.S. mean that Barry would have tax exposure with the IRS?

I'm actually surprised neither of the houses were listed under numbered holding companies (i.e. 50 Colony Road Ltd.).

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/12/28/the-house-honey-and-barry-sherman-would-have-built.html
The Bernard Sherman Family Trust, of which Honey is a trustee, bought a property in Sunny Isles Beach, Fla., six years ago. The property was granted to the family trust for $10, according to a warranty deed from 2011.

http://www.miamidade.gov/propertysearch/#/

WARRANTY DEED:
https://www2.miami-dadeclerk.com/Of...aI4/TgV0MYCt1nEyNbdhQdKnvVRUKc05JBUuaOzcWDQ==

 

[clearskies1]

If B & H met with the architect shortly before they died I'd like to know what the architect had to say about their demeanor and behavior. Were they getting along? Arguing? Distant? The house staff certainly must have seen a lot in their relationship. All unknown to us.

 

[kiwi50]

If B & H met with the architect shortly before they died I'd like to know what the architect had to say about their demeanor and behavior. Were they getting along? Arguing? Distant? The house staff certainly must have seen a lot in their relationship. All unknown to us.

And I’m sure Honeys sister and brother in law would know plenty. I see the BIL worked at Apotex at one point. I get the impression Mary and Honey spent a lot of their time together.

 

[Jennifer17]

I knew a young woman once, whose father murdered her mother. She swore that they never argued and there had never been any violence in the marriage .She was still living at home when he killed her, but was on holidays in another location at the time.
Even after he confessed and was found guilty, I think that she didn't totally believe it.

 

[gregjrichards]

If B & H met with the architect shortly before they died I'd like to know what the architect had to say about their demeanor and behavior. Were they getting along? Arguing? Distant? The house staff certainly must have seen a lot in their relationship. All unknown to us.

I would like to know this information too it would be useful.