Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Jealoushe]

Jealous this is a very strong statement. Who do you believe has the motivation and power to be able to instruct the TPS to treat this as a murder suicide? Any why would they do so? Interested in your thoughts on this.

Ties to the Clinton Foundation.

Multiple high level strange suicides happening to those related. Like the Dr who apparently stabbed himself 11 times in the chest... or so they said.

 

[AddyFinch]

The details about Honey are so horrible. It just seems to get worse and worse - sounds like the killer(s) bashed a helpless woman in the face. If it is true that a sizeable portion of the currently illegal marijuana market is mob-controlled, could there be a connection to Apotex/ Sherman trying to develop a cannabis pill - currently for the medical market, but after legalization, perhaps more mainstream? Just speculating, of course, but this sounds like a very cold-blooded hit.

I agree, all possible. It's the staging of bodies that I find bizarre. Hired hits, are in and out, they leave no evidence and take nothing. If those hands were bound, they wouldn't stop to cut off and then take out of the house. I would think the police have gone over those grounds with a fine tooth comb. Although with the snow falls, it may have been impeded. I wonder if they've checked the pool filter? Drains in the pool room floors?
Maybe BS was already dead when HS arrived home. She was in the wrong place at the wrong time therefore had to kill her too?? I bet she fell and hit her face on the tiles, while her hands were bound.
Instinctively you would put out your hands when falling, hence so many # wrists in the winter from falls on ice.
She would either be unconscious during that fall, or hands bound. If she fell after death, how large would the pool of blood be? Probably not much if heart not working, and if large it could simply be she was still alive when she hit floor, as facial and head lacerations always bleed more due to vascularity in areas.

 

[WINDSOR]

The first thing this sparked for me was 'were the phones left at the scene'? Imo, if this was a hit, and by skilled individuals, they would be wise to leave the phones. However, if the phones are gone, that's a huge sign to support a double-homicide.

No reason for 'skilled individuals' to remove phones.

Taking phones could possibly link assailants with the crime.

Assailants would be responsible for disposing of the phones to get rid of incriminating evidence.

Rule #1 in Forensics, "Something is left, something is taken, from scene". Pros do not purposely take things, unless that was the reason for the 'job'. True, contents of a cell phone may have value, but I do not think the Sherman's were killed for their phones or the contents.

 

[tarabull]

The details about Honey are so horrible. It just seems to get worse and worse - sounds like the killer(s) bashed a helpless woman in the face. If it is true that a sizeable portion of the currently illegal marijuana market is mob-controlled, could there be a connection to Apotex/ Sherman trying to develop a cannabis pill - currently for the medical market, but after legalization, perhaps more mainstream? Just speculating, of course, but this sounds like a very cold-blooded hit.

:yeahthat:

Legalized marijuana presents opportunity of a lifetime for Canadian entrepreneurs
Canada is creating a $23 billion business opportunity. And that's just the beginning.
November 3, 2017

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/canada-cannabis-greenrush-1.4383010

 

[JDG]

Does this mean the Sherman's were already dead when they were meeting with the Architect?

????

Perhaps re-read my post

 

[BUF]

If Honey was discovered with the last clothes she was seen in, I assume that info came from the architect (although it could have been from house staff, etc.) as she also had an outside coat on. So, the next question is did they drive there in separate cars or together? Did she arrive first and was abducted as she entered, then Barry walked in...or could it have been the other way around and that's why Honey had the other injuries...or they could have walked in together, grabbed Honey first and Barry complied so they wouldn't hurt her anymore.

If the story about the architect meeting is correct, maybe someone was able to shed some light on their driving arrangements, or it could simply be finding a parking receipt in the car(s).

Although I have tried to keep an open mind, for myself, I have always thought this was a double murder due to the way the bodies were discovered posed in an eerily macabre setting found hanging from the railing by the pool in the lower level of the home. ...this recent information has confirmed that even more.

 

[nuff]

Re: the remote possibility of murder/suicide. Is it physically possibly to strangle yourself with a belt? Hang yourself, yes; asphyxiate yourself with a plastic bag, yes,;but if you try to strangle yourself with some kind of ligature like a belt, I believe you lose consciousness before you die and the chokehold loosens. That's assuming you're also a contortionist who can tie your own hands together and then release them.

 

[Grey-St]

No reason for 'skilled individuals' to remove phones.

Taking phones could possibly link assailants with the crime.

Assailants would be responsible for disposing of the phones to get rid of incriminating evidence.

Rule #1 in Forensics, "Something is left, something is taken, from scene". Pros do not purposely take things, unless that was the reason for the 'job'. True, contents of a cell phone may have value, but I do not think the Sherman's were killed for their phones or the contents.

Which is exactly why I said a skilled perpetrator would not remove the phones. A non-pro may impulsively take their phones to destroy or dispose of.

I'm definitely not implying they were killed for their phones or their contents. Was just wondering if they were found at the scene.

 

[Grey-St]

Re: the remote possibility of murder/suicide. Is it physically possibly to strangle yourself with a belt? Hang yourself, yes; asphyxiate yourself with a plastic bag, yes,;but if you try to strangle yourself with some kind of ligature like a belt, I believe you lose consciousness before you die and the chokehold loosens. That's assuming you're also a contortionist who can tie your own hands together and then release them.

This is what I have been saying and thinking forever! I have always questioned the cause of death as ligature neck compression. That's essentially strangulation with a ligature. Asphyxiation is often the term used when it's a hanging. So I've literally been trying to make sense of how BS could have strangled himself with a belt/ligature, without the use of hanging. Now with the information from the pathologist suggesting their wrists were bound, but then released, I can hardly entertain the idea...

 

[AddyFinch]

If the hands are bound on death, why remove? If you undo, to make victim do something, like put a belt on her own neck, then you lose control. Unless you are pointing a gun at them.
So if hitman has a gun, why strangle them? Noise?
Do hired hitmen use anything but guns these days? And if not strangled by belt ,but a ligature, brings the whole thingback to the staging.....wth does it mean???? Someone alive knows:thinking:

 

[Alice Ramnit]

If the hands are bound on death, why remove? If you undo, to make victim do something, like put a belt on her own neck, then you lose control. Unless you are pointing a gun at them.
So if hitman has a gun, why strangle them? Noise?
Do hired hitmen use anything but guns these days? And if not strangled by belt ,but a ligature, brings the whole thingback to the staging.....wth does it mean???? Someone alive knows:thinking:

Maybe they removed the ties because they had brought them with them and they might contain forensic evidence? They may have removed them after they were killed so that they could be disposed of or destroyed?

 

[BillieL]

I haven’t kept up with this thread. Has the police confirmed that it is a double murder?


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[AddyFinch]

Maybe they removed the ties because they had brought them with them and they might contain forensic evidence? They may have removed them after they were killed so that they could be disposed of or destroyed?

Has to be the answer.
The more i mull all this over in my head, the more I think there are personal overtones to the killing. Very personal and angry.

 

[Snoop Sister]

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-honey-sherman-were-murdered-sources-say.html

People providing information for this story are not identified as they were not authorized to discuss the case.

I wonder who released this information and for what purpose. Who is the source that gave this information out about the autopsy. IMO until a legitimate source is identified, it is rumour. Just like the murder-suicide is rumour as well.

However, I speculate that if it is double murder, it is not a hit but someone known to the Shermans.

 

[Lynngrace]

I believe they drove in their own cars....can’t remember where I saw it but.....makes more sense though if they drove in her car....would explain why they have t taken his car in.....only hers......maybe someone was in the vehicle when they left the meeting and threatened them with a gun etc. It to do anything out of the usual with the car....just guessing obviously....

 

[Tortoise]

rbbm.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

Just Honey's location as regards receiving her facial injuries on the tiles is an indication to me that this wasn't Barry, unless he chased her there to attack her, and even then she's hardly likely to have cooperated while he bound her wrists. I wouldn't attribute him with the physical fitness of a police officer trained to restrain the arms of a person resisting. This isn't a lashing out crime in a rage, it is pre-planned with wrist bindings ready and belts tied to the rail. No corresponding blood on Honey's upper clothing means she probably wasn't injured elsewhere and then dragged there.

Wearing outdoor coats - they were ambushed when they arrived home.

IMO.

 

[Lynngrace]

Apparently they may have used those heavy plastic ties to bind them....they could get prints from that so they had to remove.....apparently that is what police were looking for in the sewers

 

[Lilibet]

Has to be the answer.
The more i mull all this over in my head, the more I think there are personal overtones to the killing. Very personal and angry.

Yes, very personal and very angry. I can’t imagine a business-related “hitman” going to all this trouble. They would be in and out as fast as possible and probably use guns or just leave them wherever they strangled them. Why pose them by the pool? If this was personal, whoever did it hoped it would look like a double suicide or murder/suicide and throw LE off.

 

[Tortoise]

If the hands are bound on death, why remove? If you undo, to make victim do something, like put a belt on her own neck, then you lose control. Unless you are pointing a gun at them.
So if hitman has a gun, why strangle them? Noise?
Do hired hitmen use anything but guns these days? And if not strangled by belt ,but a ligature, brings the whole thingback to the staging.....wth does it mean???? Someone alive knows:thinking:

I would guess they brought the wrist binding/handcuffs whatever with them and to leave them behind would provide opportunity for recognition or tracing the manufacturers and location of the perpetrators, as well as other traces such as DNA/fibres etc. They would undo them after strangling them. The coats back on sleeves means to me that they wanted to leave ASAP so unbound their wrists and left their arms restrained by coats in case they regained consciousness.

 

[Lynngrace]

Facing away is always what I thought....Makes no sense facing pool which has not been noted...people assumed this......but...semi sitting always bothered me.....this Makes perfect sense......