Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #4

[Kaley Smith]

I heard on CBC TV news an hour ago that the private investigators said Honey had put up quite a fight as there were cuts and scrapes on her hands. They also said she was killed elsewhere as there was a pool of her blood that her body had been removed from. Also, that there were multiple people involved in the murders.

Then, there's also this which may or may not have been posted already:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

 

[Kaley Smith]

Notice: [FONT=&amp]Their wrists showed evidence that they had been, at one point, bound together.
I'm thinking this couple was put through a lot. Revenge motive in my opinion.

Who, when committing suicide, binds their arms up in their jacket? Given this and the many years of a loving relationship between the Shermans, I think it's bizarre to think this was a murder-suicide.


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[JDG]

Notice: [FONT=&amp]Their wrists showed evidence that they had been, at one point, bound together.
I'm thinking this couple was put through a lot. Revenge motive in my opinion.

Who, when committing suicide, binds their arms up in their jacket? Given this and the many years of a loving relationship between the Shermans, I think it's bizarre to think this was a murder-suicide.


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IMO, all of this, plus your previous post are still in the realm of rumour at this time. Greenspan says they haven't leaked anything and nothing official has been said. This info. is all from sources and Im not sure why CBC is 'running with it', seeing as Greenspan himself says its not from leaks/sources from his side. Its also not from TPS. Think we need a tsp of salt with it. IMO

No doubt there were all kinds of marks, scrapes etc on the bodies but that will be in the autopsy reports which have not been released yet. IMIO

 

[Peace777]

Experts shade their findings all the time. They can interpret facts differently.

Henry Lee gave evidence in support of OJ. It didn’t harm his career.

I agree there may be more than 1 interpretation on some things but in my reply I said "they can't change facts/evidence to fit what the family want to hear" something to that affect. Interpretation is different than changing facts... IMO

 

[Kaley Smith]

IMO, all of this, plus your previous post are still in the realm of rumour at this time. Greenspan says they haven't leaked anything and nothing official has been said. This info. is all from sources and Im not sure why CBC is 'running with it', seeing as Greenspan himself says its not from leaks/sources from his side. Its also not from TPS. Think we need a tsp of salt with it. IMO
No doubt there were all kinds of marks, scrapes etc on the bodies but that will be in the autopsy reports which have not been released yet. IMIO

CBC is a very reputable source. I believe the information. The only thing that would give me pause is they often do not have their top staff on during the weekend, so it's possible this did not go through their top team of reporters first (or the ones who decide what gets on air). The private investigators are retired detectives. They know what they're doing, and so does the CBC in my experience.

 

[Tighthead]

I agree there may be more than 1 interpretation on some things but in my reply I said "they can't change facts/evidence to fit what the family want to hear" something to that affect. Interpretation is different than changing facts... IMO

And where did I suggest they were changing facts? Please provide a specific quote.

”Evidence” is a broad term which includes opinions, and experts tailor their opinions on a regular basis. The majority of civil suits involve opposing expert opinions - medical, engineering, etc.

Did Henry Lee and Barry Sheck lose credibility for aligning with OJ?

How many times have you been involved in the retention and instruction of an expert witness by a lawyer?

Do you think experts who are retained and compensated by people in processes are perfectly objective? If so, how do you explain experts regularly coming to opposite opinions based on the same facts?

 

[Kaley Smith]

IMO, all of this, plus your previous post are still in the realm of rumour at this time. Greenspan says they haven't leaked anything and nothing official has been said. This info. is all from sources and Im not sure why CBC is 'running with it', seeing as Greenspan himself says its not from leaks/sources from his side. Its also not from TPS. Think we need a tsp of salt with it. IMO
No doubt there were all kinds of marks, scrapes etc on the bodies but that will be in the autopsy reports which have not been released yet. IMIO

Last year the the CBC won numerous awards, and this year they will walk away with the majority of the awards for news TV, radio and digital reporting again. They don't get these by reporting rumours. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cbc-r...-news-association-awards-journalism-1.4134730

 

[JDG]

Toronto Sun is also MSM and they ran a 'story' with similar statements. Don't know who issued this information but its this very information that Greenspan refuted. Seems CBC is now running with it. Wouldn't be the first time MSM got it wrong. IMO

**I suspect that with another huge murder arrest the other day, the spotlight is off the Shermans, so 'stuff' was released, then refuted in order to keep them on the front page. ** IMO

TPS is still holding the crime scene, it hasn't been turned over to the PIs yet. TPS won't share with private investigators until they've released the crime scene. IMO

 

[Kaley Smith]

Time will tell. I think the Toronto police made a huge mistake when they suggested murder-suicide right off the bat. What were they thinking? (Answer: They weren't thinking, which is kind of scary. Their only excuse is if they were trying to lull the killers into a false sense of security, which is a possibility, I suppose.)

 

[Tighthead]

Last year the the CBC won numerous awards, and this year they will walk away with the majority of the awards for news TV, radio and digital reporting again. They don't get these by reporting rumours. http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/cbc-r...-news-association-awards-journalism-1.4134730

CBC is reporting what has been leaked, so it’s not a rumour. However, CBC can’t verify the actual information. I’m sure the PIs have leaked the information - but that doesn’t make their opinion valid.

 

[Kaley Smith]

To tighthead re. your question:

"Did Henry Lee and Barry Sheck lose credibility for aligning with OJ?"

They did with me and many in the public; not that it matters when there is a trial
unless we're on the jury.

 

[Tighthead]

To tighthead re. your question:

"Did Henry Lee and Barry Sheck lose credibility for aligning with OJ?"

They did with me and many in the public; not that it matters when there is a trial
unless we're on the jury.

Did it destroy their careers?

No. The concept that experts must be perfect and infallible is not supported in practice.

 

[Veeduck]

Does anyone else see a possible connection between these possible murders and the Rebecca Nalepa case? Both involve pharma execs and suspicious hangings.

When I first heard the circumstances of this case, it immediately reminded me of CEO Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend Rebecca Nalepa. I never bought that she committed suicide in such a bizarre manner. But there doesn't seem to be any connection, other than a sheer coincidence that the Shermans were likely murdered on the 13th of the month, which would make it the 77th mensiversary of Nalepa's death. The victimology is entirely different for the two cases.

 

[JayFriend]

Just jumping of your post JayFriend....
Tight lipped AND short staffed....FWIW.

:thinking:

I did see something about short staffed. But a double murder changes the whole perspective from a murder suicide and the TPS is large and resourceful. I fully appreciate why they wouldn't be feeding the media unless it helped the investigation and staffing has nothing to do with it.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I heard on CBC TV news an hour ago that the private investigators said Honey had put up quite a fight as there were cuts and scrapes on her hands. They also said she was killed elsewhere as there was a pool of her blood that her body had been removed from. Also, that there were multiple people involved in the murders.

Then, there's also this which may or may not have been posted already:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

I'm wondering why the same sources did not describe the condition in which BS was found.

I've noticed some twitter responses to the Star story asking if the private investigators have been in the home considering that the TPS still have the scene taped off.

 

[dotr]

See the thread about Andrew Kinsman. Its all on there. Wish I could link it for you.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?342310-Canada-Andrew-Kinsman-49-Toronto-26-June-2017
[h=2]Andrew Kinsman, 49, Toronto, 26 June 2017[/h]

 

[JDG]

I'm wondering why the same sources did not describe the condition in which BS was found.

I've noticed some twitter responses to the Star story asking if the private investigators have been in the home considering that the TPS still have the scene taped off.

PIs have not been inside the home nor on the property. TPS is holding the scene and nothing will be known until after TPS makes a statement or hands the property over to the family. Everything else is rumour. It cannot be substantiated folks.

 

[Veeduck]

... I wouldn't rule out the possibility that the killer(s) were female, and may have lacked the upper body strength to lift their victims higher for a 'full' hanging.

By the same logic, its entirely possible that the killer(s) were young and/or short in stature. Has anyone considered the possibility that neighborhood juvenile delinquents might have been looking for a thrill kill? The Shermans were elderly and lived in a house without security cameras. They were 'soft targets,' and yet Honey appears to have put up a fight against her assailant(s). That suggests the killer(s) weren't so big and strong (or professional), IMO. If the deed was done by juvie neighbors whose family were friends of the Shermans, that could also explain how the killer(s) may have been familiar with their house, and possibly known that household staff were instructed not to enter the pool room.

 

[kay74]

When I first heard the circumstances of this case, it immediately reminded me of CEO Jonah Shacknai's girlfriend Rebecca Nalepa. I never bought that she committed suicide in such a bizarre manner. But there doesn't seem to be any connection, other than a sheer coincidence that the Shermans were likely murdered on the 13th of the month, which would make it the 77th mensiversary of Nalepa's death. The victimology is entirely different for the two cases.

Rebecca's case is what got me going on webleuths. Yes that was not suicide. They have a suspect, Jonah's brother, but I'm sure he's lawyered up and it will unfortunately go nowhere, IMO

 

[kay74]

I heard on CBC TV news an hour ago that the private investigators said Honey had put up quite a fight as there were cuts and scrapes on her hands. They also said she was killed elsewhere as there was a pool of her blood that her body had been removed from. Also, that there were multiple people involved in the murders.

Then, there's also this which may or may not have been posted already:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...rivate-investigators-believe-source-1.4496686

Also posted on Fox.