Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #5

[Tighthead]

She's pushing a narrative implying that "team Sherman" is inferior to TPS. Or she's trying to at least.

I think her point is that the family was upset about leaks initially, but are happy to use leaks and planted information as it suits them.

Look at at how many people are taking it at faith that they were bound. CBC and The Star published the exact information that they were fed without hesitation.

 

[Tighthead]

She is actually - she uses a direct comparison:

"Team Sherman has a complement of seven, counting Greenspan, compared with the Toronto force, which has more than 7,000 employees, officers and civilians."

Why did she even bother saying that?



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She was was talking about the fact that TPS is locked down silent and the investigative team is now “leaking” like a sieve.

I can’t honestly believe that people think she was in any way implying that 7,000 people are working the case.

 

[Grey-St]

So you don’t think murder suicide is a possibility? What ruled it out for you?

I'm not talking about myself here. I'm saying, with the new information, there's two scenarios for double-homicide, and I'm unsure of what the evidence is that supports the professional hit/third party scenario.

 

[Tighthead]

I'm not talking about myself here. I'm saying, with the new information, there's two scenarios for double-homicide, and I'm unsure of what the evidence is that supports the professional hit/third party scenario.

Got it. It does seem like a huge leap to extrapolate a professional hit from the wrist markings. It’s curious that the investigators would make huge leaps as they did.

 

[deugirtni]

If a 'hit' is said to be a contract hit, it doesn't necessarily mean the job was contracted to 'professionals'. A 'professional' hit, might include a job that was hired out, presumably to 'professionals', but not necessarily?

The description of the scene in the S house doesn't seem to inspire a feeling that this could/would have been done by 'professionals'. (Too personal; an unlikely method of murder; staging involved; battering of the female before killing her; etc)

This leads me to wonder if this could have been arranged with a ****(s) by someone with a personal vendetta. jmo

 

[Grey-St]

Got it. It does seem like a huge leap to extrapolate a professional hit from the wrist markings. It’s curious that the investigators would make huge leaps as they did.

Yeah, it's interesting for sure. They either have more information to suggest a hit, or they simply have a hunch. I'm not writing the theory off necessarily, I just want to know what evidence there is to support it, if any.

 

[MizStery]

She was was talking about the fact that TPS is locked down silent and the investigative team is now “leaking” like a sieve.

I can’t honestly believe that people think she was in any way implying that 7,000 people are working the case.

I always read the the title for context.Then I read the opening paragraph if it is well written it should tell you what the POV of the author is.

The title was very specific as was the opening paragraph. The article was written to contrast leaks from the two investigations.

Then if you read the last three paragraphs it is clear she is contasting the anonymous leaks by LE and the current legal/investigative anonymous leaks.

Here are the last theee paragraphs to judge for yourself:

Thus far, it appears, they’re doing a bang-up job, right down to allegedly unauthorized leaks of information — and considerably more of it, too.

Team Sherman has a complement of seven, counting Greenspan, compared with the Toronto force, which has more than 7,000 employees, officers and civilians.

Perhaps the private team can take another leaf out of the TPS playbook, and simply clam up until they have something to say to which they will attach their names.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-private-investigators-in-sherman-case-share-police-penchant-for-leaks

​

What my take away from Christie is as sheer numbers go. If a huge department like LE can shut down leaks then the 7 member parallel investigation needs to take a page out of their book or simply do the same.

:cow:

 

[Grey-St]

If a 'hit' is said to be a contract hit, it doesn't necessarily mean the job was contracted to 'professionals'. A 'professional' hit, might include a job that was hired out, presumably to 'professionals', but not necessarily?

The description of the scene in the S house doesn't seem to inspire a feeling that this could/would have been done by 'professionals'. (Too personal; an unlikely method of murder; staging involved; battering of the female before killing her; etc)

This leads me to wonder if this could have been arranged with a ****(s) by someone with a personal vendetta. jmo

For sure. A hit, professional or not, simply implies a third party to the crime. The third party could have carried out the crimes based on instructions from the perpetrator(s), or the perpetrator(s) directly carried out the crimes on their own.

 

[deugirtni]

She is actually - she uses a direct comparison:

"Team Sherman has a complement of seven, counting Greenspan, compared with the Toronto force, which has more than 7,000 employees, officers and civilians."

Why did she even bother saying that?

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CB wrote a previous article regarding the 'initial leak' that LE was treating it as a M/S. In it, she was just saying that nobody knew where it came from, could have been any one of the entire TPS, or someone who heard it from one of them, etc. It's presumably much more difficult to control 7000 people, than it is to control 7.

It seems obvious to me that it is the family who is feeding the media with the findings via this most recent 'leak' of details - I don't suspect it was any of the actual Sherman Team members, but just my opinion.

Here is CB's other article: [FONT=&quot]http://nationalpost.com/opinion/chr...-screwed-up-investigation-into-sherman-deaths[/FONT]

 

[Grey-St]

I always read the the title for context.Then I read the opening paragraph if it is well written it should tell you what the POV of the author is.

The title was very specific as was the opening paragraph. The article was written to contrast leaks from the two investigations.

Then if you read the last three paragraphs it is clear she is contasting the anonymous leaks by LE and the current legal/investigative anonymous leaks.

Here are the last theee paragraphs to judge for yourself:

Thus far, it appears, they’re doing a bang-up job, right down to allegedly unauthorized leaks of information — and considerably more of it, too.

Team Sherman has a complement of seven, counting Greenspan, compared with the Toronto force, which has more than 7,000 employees, officers and civilians.

Perhaps the private team can take another leaf out of the TPS playbook, and simply clam up until they have something to say to which they will attach their names.
http://nationalpost.com/opinion/christie-blatchford-private-investigators-in-sherman-case-share-police-penchant-for-leaks

​

What my take away from Christie is as sheer numbers go. If a huge department like LE can shut down leaks then the 7 member parallel investigation needs to take a page out of their book or simply do the same.

:cow:

I mean, TPS had numerous leaks, not just that "LE is investigating the case as a murder-suicide". The entire description of the crime scene came from unnamed sources, as well as every task they were undertaking. But I agree now, that what Christie is likely saying, is that leaks happened on both sides, and that with TPS being a 7000 member organization, that's understandable.

 

[Tighthead]

If a 'hit' is said to be a contract hit, it doesn't necessarily mean the job was contracted to 'professionals'. A 'professional' hit, might include a job that was hired out, presumably to 'professionals', but not necessarily?

The description of the scene in the S house doesn't seem to inspire a feeling that this could/would have been done by 'professionals'. (Too personal; an unlikely method of murder; staging involved; battering of the female before killing her; etc)

This leads me to wonder if this could have been arranged with a ****(s) by someone with a personal vendetta. jmo

If it was a “hit”, I tend to think the same as you. It’s not clean.

If most ordinary people are going to hire a hit man, anything can happen. I guess you go hang out in a dumpy bar and start awkwardly soliciting lowlifes.

I think the story in the Markel case was that the rate was $5K. You get what you pay for, although driving a Prius is both brilliant and hilarious.

 

[pamelado2]

She was was talking about the fact that TPS is locked down silent and the investigative team is now “leaking” like a sieve.

I can’t honestly believe that people think she was in any way implying that 7,000 people are working the case.

That is what she's implying, how else would 7000 people have access to sensitive information that could be leaked?
She's comparing the 2 investigations - are 7000 people in LE working this case? Wouldn't the info be restricted?

Also, the only new information that has been received was that their wrists were bound and the injuries to HS. Who's to say it isn't the same person that leaked info about the winter coats, legs straight out, etc?
The PI said if he found it was anyone from his office they'd be fired.

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[Tighthead]

That is what she's implying, how else would 7000 people have access to sensitive information that could be leaked?
She's comparing the 2 investigations - are 7000 people in LE working this case? Wouldn't the info be restricted?

Also, the only new information that has been received was that their wrists were bound and the injuries to HS. Who's to say it isn't the same person that leaked info about the winter coats, legs straight out, etc?
The PI said if he found it was anyone from his office they'd be fired.

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The PI didn’t say it, the lawyer did. Doesn’t make it true. The information is far too detailed and self serving to be an actual leak.

She was comparing the leaks and the hypocrisy. The PI team isn’t just leaking details, but planting a speculative narrative.

The info is restricted but people still have a tendency to talk to co-workers, there are many hands involved.

The wrists being bound is an opinion, not a fact.

Both articles identified the source(s) as being connected to the private investigation. I don’t think many journalists would cover for a police source like that.

The idea of 7000 people being part of the investigation is too preposterous to be implied or inferred. People may not like Blatchford but that was clearly not her point.

 

[pamelado2]

The PI didn’t say it, the lawyer did. Doesn’t make it true. The information is far too detailed and self serving to be an actual leak.

She was comparing the leaks and the hypocrisy. The PI team isn’t just leaking details, but planting a speculative narrative.

The info is restricted but people still have a tendency to talk to co-workers, there are many hands involved.

The wrists being bound is an opinion, not a fact.

Both articles identified the source(s) as being connected to the private investigation. I don’t think many journalists would cover for a police source like that.

The idea of 7000 people being part of the investigation is too preposterous to be implied or inferred. People may not like Blatchford but that was clearly not her point.

In your opinion is wasn't her point, in my opinion it was - and definitely preposterous.

Also, we have no idea where the leaks came from as no names have been given.
In my opinion it didn't come from the PI team. Not only is it basically the same info as leaked before + a few more details, but why would they have to leak info? Why not call LE out? According to Blatchford there are 7000 people that have this info, it's much more likely to be one of them IMO.

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[Tighthead]

In your opinion is wasn't her point, in my opinion it was.

Also, we have no idea where the leaks came from as no names have been given.

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Sure it’s your opinion. Opinions can be irrational. It’s impossible for 7000 police to work on one investigation. You just don’t like the article.

The leaks are clearly identkfied as coming coming from the family’s side, so when you say we you mean you and you are being willfully blind.

 

[Satchie]

I mean, TPS had numerous leaks, not just that "LE is investigating the case as a murder-suicide". The entire description of the crime scene came from unnamed sources, as well as every task they were undertaking. But I agree now, that what Christie is likely saying, is that leaks happened on both sides, and that with TPS being a 7000 member organization, that's understandable.

Actually, I think all that info about the crime scene came originally from the person(s) who found the bodies. They probably told people, and the gossip spread. It also might have come from people the family confided in.

I also think the murder/suicide 'leak' was more probably a media person looking for someone/anyone to confirm that was the angle being considered most probable. It was probably more like a nod of the head in answer to "looks like murder/suicide, since there's no signs of break-in, eh?

 

[pamelado2]

Sure it’s your opinion. Opinions can be irrational. It’s impossible for 7000 police to work on one investigation. You just don’t like the article.

The leaks are clearly identkfied as coming coming from the family’s side, so when you say we you mean you and you are being willfully blind.

No it's got nothing to do with me liking or disliking the article.

The article is implying that 7000 people affiliated with LE (And I quote "the Toronto force, which has more than 7,000 employees, officers and civilians") had access to this information. There's no other way to interpret that sentence in my opinion. And that statement is ridiculous.


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[drama_farmer]

If the leaked autopsy findings of "possible evidence of binding" (my paraphrasing, IMO), represent what Team Sherman sees as evidence (or "best" evidence) for something other than a murder/suicide, I'd say, IMO, they haven't discovered the "smoking gun" they may have been looking for. Again, my speculation, IMO

 

[MizStery]

I mean, TPS had numerous leaks, not just that "LE is investigating the case as a murder-suicide". The entire description of the crime scene came from unnamed sources, as well as every task they were undertaking. But I agree now, that what Christie is likely saying, is that leaks happened on both sides, and that with TPS being a 7000 member organization, that's understandable.

I have to agree with you the numerous leaks reveal the ugly underbelly of a few ruthless individuals in the TPS world. It brought shame to the department but to their credit the anonymous sources were silenced. Enough said because I am going off in the weeds by discussing political science.

:cow:

 

[dotr]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/sherman-family-private-investigators-police-1.4498795
Sherman family private investigation could cost up to $1M

The Shermans are paying for another autopsy and a lot of top investigative talent

By Mark Gollom, CBC News Posted: Jan 23, 2018

"I wouldn't be surprised at the end of the day if their cost of that investigation is going to be in the $500,000 to million-dollar range," said Brian King, a Toronto-based private investigator whose cases have included aiding in overturning the wrongful murder convictions of Robert Baltovich and Steven Truscott.

[h=2]Police can be co-operative[/h] Perry said he mostly gets involved after police have concluded their own work, and at that point, detectives can be very co-operative. He said he has been given access to autopsy and crime scene photographs, witness interviews, police officer notes, forensic and post mortem reports — all of the things that would help an investigator come to a conclusion of how it is that this person died.

"I've had police services sit down with me, with investigators and sometimes with the senior officer who will say 'you know, we'd appreciate it if you would share with us anything that you find that is different than what we have."