Canada - BC Man seen carrying 'unconscious' child into woods nr Abbotsford

[Laughing]

I'm really at a loss in these cases but......does anyone know if laying down and refusing to move might be something a child with autism might do?

When not in CyberSpace, I work at Head Start.

Laying down & refusing to move is something most, if not all, North American children do from time to time.

The child laying down I understand; carrying that child I understand.

The warehouse area with trees, I don't understand....

 

[carbuff]

Yeah. Even going so limp they look unconscious is something my kids did once in a while. But the atea and the carrying into the wooded area are...sinister.

 

[Snoopster]

A few possibilities that I've come up with....

1) walking from the bus or walking to the bus
The closest bus stop is at Maclure (which effectively turns into McCallum) and Wren, which looks like it would be a 10 minute walk away. Route #6 stops there at 5:48 and 6:48.

If they were trying to catch a bus, they would have missed the 5:48 bus by a long shot and been much too early for the 6:48 bus, so this is unlikely.

If they had arrived by bus, it would have been on the 5:48 bus. But where would they be walking to, in that area, at that time of day? One possibility could have been the scraggly grouping of houses on Turner, south of Enterprise and east of McCallum. If walking there, the quickest route would be to cut through the small woodlot, through the business parking lots and into the field/back yards of the houses. Presumably LE checked with the occupants of those houses though?


2) the man is a trucker and he parked his rig in a spot that looks like are walking into the woods. Like here:

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.0589874,-122.2937925,3a,75y,138.05h,78.65t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snqoJxeCIw0NIxhlRp52gRw!2e0?hl=en


3) the man and the girl could have been out for a walk . there seem to be some trails to the south of Maclure/McLellan, but I don't see them come out on Maclure. Perhaps they were walking along the train tracks?


In any of these cases, I still find it surprising that a child of that age would become so tired as to completely fall asleep by the road while out walking at 6 pm.

 

[Snoopster]

Thinking of this young girl tonight. I hope that there is nothing sinister behind what the witness saw. Stay safe in your family's arms.
:hug:

 

[Sillybilly]

Police haven't given up investigating this case.

Press release today from the Abbotsford Police Department:

and from Global News...

http://globalnews.ca/news/1591735/abbotsford-police-looking-for-young-girl-seen-lying-by-the-side-of-the-road/

Images of the 'witness' trucks...LE would like to speak to these potential witnesses:

Streetview shows at least one white extended cab in the parking lot of Ritchie-Smith Feeds on the north side of Enterprise. Hopefully LE will have checked there (not sure if Ritchie Feeds operates round-the-clock to have been open around 6:00 pm).

I'm in BC and very familiar with the area, but am confused about the man carrying the girl west, because the west end of Enterprise is a T intersection with McCallum. The only treed area I see west of the T is behind the various businesses (Wolesley Mechanical, and Valley Caterers coffee shop) with the railway tracks right in behind the treeline that is visible. There are no residences in behind there and it appears to lead to a fair sized greenbelt.

From what I can see, in that greenbelt area behind the railway tracks, should be Willband Creek:

http://www.mapmywalk.com/ca/abbotsford-british-columbia/willband-creek-park-route-108367941

and the Discovery Trail runs through the greenbelt (although I think a bit further north of Enterprise):

http://www.abbotsford.ca/parksrecreationandculture/parks_fields/discovery_trail/about_the_trail.htm

 

[Sillybilly]

Let's keep in mind that the US border is VERY close to where this incident took place. I presume that it would be difficult for someone to get over the border with a child. Is there an 'unattended' crossing anywhere near here?

LE said they checked with the local school board for absences of young girls. What about homeschooled children? what about children who just moved here from other provinces or as immigrants?

No unattended crossings Snoopster. I agree wrt homeschooled kids, but also APD should be checking with Mission School District as well. Hwy 11 is the Mission-Abby Hwy going north to Mission just across the Fraser River.

 

[MsMarple]

The driver of the white pickup has gotten in touch with police. No word yet on what they said but it's a start - I hope.

“This remains an active investigation, but obviously with one of those drivers coming forward we are hoping that that will lead us to some more answers.”

http://www.cknw.com/2014/10/05/driver-comes-forward-in-abbotsford-missing-girl-story/

 

[MsMarple]

The FB page for Abbotsford Police:

https://www.facebook.com/AbbyPoliceDept

There are posts from them about the missing girl. So far the commenters are saying the same things as we are and asking the same questions. One says they've never seen anyone walking there - just cars speeding through.

ETA: One comment is about railroad tracks so maybe Snoopster is onto something. It looks like that person reported it. Comment was made Oct. 1.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I cannot help but think of similar cases we've looked at here on WS in the past couple of years. The boy in the subdivision with the bike, and the girl running into the woods in new england. Both never went anywhere and caused me to think it was the reporter seeing something that just wasn't there.

I dunno.....

 

[xtradegree]

I'm really at a loss in these cases but......does anyone know if laying down and refusing to move might be something a child with autism might do?

IMHO, it isn't so much if a child with autism might lay down and refuse to move ~ but rather would they go limp if carried when they do not want to go somewhere.
In my personal experience, no. It typically results in a meltdown, should that happen.

 

[carbuff]

I cannot help but think of similar cases we've looked at here on WS in the past couple of years. The boy in the subdivision with the bike, and the girl running into the woods in new england. Both never went anywhere and caused me to think it was the reporter seeing something that just wasn't there.

I dunno.....

I still worry about the boy with the bike in PA. If that was a family situation, he's living with a lot of violence and anger. And the other explanations are worse.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This man might have punched her and knocked her out before carrying her off.

There was a case like this here in 1999 where a witness phoned in suspicious behaviour of a man with a young girl.

On April 22, 1999, 9-year-old Keyra Steinhardt disappeared in broad daylight when she was taking a shortcut through a vacant lot on her way home from school. An eye witness to the abduction, who lived opposite the vacant lot, told police that she saw a man catch up with the little girl and hit her from behind. The child fell to the ground and she couldn't see her in the long grass but she saw the man fall on her.
Then the man ran away and returned shortly after with a car and lifted the little girl from the ground into the trunk and drove away. Terrified of repercussions, it took the witness a critical 20 minutes to pluck up the courage to make an anonymous phone call to the police. But by then, little Keyra was dead and disposed of.
The following day police traced Leonard Fraser through the witnesses description of his early model red Mazda 626 sedan and picked him up. It was two weeks before Fraser broke and confessed to Keyra’s murder and took police to her naked body. He had abandoned it on a thick bed of grass near the Rockhampton racecourse. Her throat had been cut and as if in a belated veil of chastity, Fraser had draped Keyra’s green school jumper over her torso.
DNA samples taken from the blood and hair found in the trunk of Fraser’s car matched that of Keyra Steinhardt.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...r-leonard-fraser/story-fnihsrf2-1226892135716

 

[Sillybilly]

The lying down aspect (whether autism, tantrum, joking, etc) doesn't bother me so much as does the report that he was seen carrying her off towards the bush. Can't think of any reasonable explanation for that.

 

[MsMarple]

No news yet. I was hoping that the man involved would come forward by now, especially since the driver of the white pickup heard about the police request and responded. It's so frustrating.

MacDonald said one possibility is that this young girl and her guardian are completely oblivious to the media attention. “Conversely, the young girl could have been lying on the ground because she was injured, but we’re not taking anything for granted,” he said.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/strang...bbotsford-b-c-still-baffling-police-1.2040228

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The lying down aspect (whether autism, tantrum, joking, etc) doesn't bother me so much as does the report that he was seen carrying her off towards the bush. Can't think of any reasonable explanation for that.

One reason to go into the bush for one or the other to go potty...

but that doesn't explain all the puzzling aspects of the case...

- Why were they not seen coming back out from the bush...

- Why were the two walking along a mostly vehicle used roadway..

- Why did the girl go "limp"...

- Why hasn't the "guardian" (or ???) come forward yet?

:waitasec:

 

[Snoopster]

So no new news. I have a feeling that this case will simply fade away and we will never know if a young girl was in distress or not.

 

[Sillybilly]

Carbuff, I see you here

I know the pics aren't great, but can you give me your thoughts on the red truck (age, make, anything). Thanks !!

 

[carbuff]

It's not a very good picture. I'd guess from an overall impression that it might be a fairly recent model Dodge Dakota or Toyota Tundra, but the cab has a squarish look that might mean it's an older model. Say 2004-2005.

Nissan, Ford, Chevy have a wider, flatter grille.

It's almost certainly a four-wheel drive -- see how high above the wheels the body rides.

But I can't make out any details.

 

[Snoopster]

So great to see two of my favorite (favourite, for us Canejuns) posters trying to solve this case. (SB and carbuff)

I really don't know what to expect here. What the heck??! I find it so upsetting to think about the possibility that a young girl may be in distress. Yes, it may be nothing, but I would feel so better to know that for a fact.

 

[TGIRecovered]

This man might have punched her and knocked her out before carrying her off.

There was a case like this here in 1999 where a witness phoned in suspicious behaviour of a man with a young girl.

On April 22, 1999, 9-year-old Keyra Steinhardt disappeared in broad daylight when she was taking a shortcut through a vacant lot on her way home from school. An eye witness to the abduction, who lived opposite the vacant lot, told police that she saw a man catch up with the little girl and hit her from behind. The child fell to the ground and she couldn't see her in the long grass but she saw the man fall on her.
Then the man ran away and returned shortly after with a car and lifted the little girl from the ground into the trunk and drove away. Terrified of repercussions, it took the witness a critical 20 minutes to pluck up the courage to make an anonymous phone call to the police. But by then, little Keyra was dead and disposed of.
The following day police traced Leonard Fraser through the witnesses description of his early model red Mazda 626 sedan and picked him up. It was two weeks before Fraser broke and confessed to Keyra’s murder and took police to her naked body. He had abandoned it on a thick bed of grass near the Rockhampton racecourse. Her throat had been cut and as if in a belated veil of chastity, Fraser had draped Keyra’s green school jumper over her torso.
DNA samples taken from the blood and hair found in the trunk of Fraser’s car matched that of Keyra Steinhardt.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...r-leonard-fraser/story-fnihsrf2-1226892135716

The fact that the person who witnesses the violent attack and rape of a little girl did not immediately call 911 the moment he or she saw the man hit the girl makes that witness 100% as responsible for the child's death, in my opinion. There is no excuse for refusing to do everything possible to stop an attack on a child. Calling 911 in a timely manner is the very least a human being could do.

Personally, I would have grabbed the nearest weapon even if it was nothing but a rock or a stick and ran at the pervert screaming like I was possessed by the devil. Let that disgusting excuse for a human being try to fight me of with his pants around his ankles. This 5' 2" gramma would rather die protecting a child from a pervert than cower around worrying about possible repercussions of reporting it while witnessing a child being raped and disposed the of like garbage. MOO

The witness could possibly have been a woman but my personal best guess would be that the cowardly witness is a man. The longer I live, the more I see how far our society has fallen from the days when decent men were expected to protect women and children.