CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[Trudie]

There was something about one of his friends that had been texting him I believe on sunday and never got a response which they said was unlike Ben.

I think his Australian friend.

 

[MistyWaters]

No, it wouldn't help with that, but it might show when something happened. Though in my mind, middle of the night is a real possibility.

If it was preplanned whatsoever, that’d be when an intruder would most often strike, catching him off guard when he was asleep.

One thing I’ve noticed, we know virtually nothing about Ben’s social life in Merritt. Given he’s consistently described as a friendly, ongoing, really nice guy who’s successfully maintained strong friendships wherever he’s worked or lived in the past, so after two or three months at NR wouldn’t it be likely he’d began connecting with others there too? As an eligible single guy, was he dating? My experience living in smaller places, somebody new arrives and everyone knows everything about him before he ever set foot in town. I don’t think it’d be difficult for him to form social connections at all as others would be fascinated with his life’s journeys. Just another piece of the puzzle that seems to be missing...but could be connected somehow.

 

[MistyWaters]

@Satchie if you make a list of potential suspects, ruling out the general public, you’ll have a very short list.
IMO, we can completely rule out a stranger.
A stranger would have no knowledge of Ben’s horse, his tack or where to turn Gunny loose.
Jmo

But are we sure we can absolutely rule out that he wasn’t riding in a remote area when he was attacked?

The location where Gunny was found IMO is unusual. What do you think was the point behind letting her loose in a location that was being logged? That’s the significant contradiction that makes no sense to me. Anyone who is capable of murdering a man and hiding the body from discovery is surely capable of killing his horse too. Instead it was the discovery of Gunny and no trace of Ben that brought immediate questions about his disappearance.

 

[Trudie]

But are we sure we can absolutely rule out that he wasn’t riding in a remote area when he was attacked?

The location where Gunny was found IMO is unusual. What do you think was the point behind letting her loose in a location that was being logged? That’s a contradiction to me. Anyone who is capable of murdering a man and hiding the body from discovery is surely capable of killing his horse too. It was the discovery of Gunny and no trace of Ben that brought immediate questions about his disappearance.

Lol we can theorize how we like, ruling things in/out based on our own findings.
There would be no reason to kill the horse, she can’t talk.
IMO, the logging area was convenient & accessible (free of snow). Jmo

 

[MistyWaters]

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I’m not interested in accusing anyone. But until LE completes the investigation and charges are laid against somebody, what occurred could point in various directions. I don’t believe anyone is privy to details within that investigation and most often that includes family members as well. No doubt the waiting must be extremely difficult for them.

 

[Trudie]

IMO, the Tyner family alerted LE to the suspect based on knowledge they had from convo with Ben.
Agree, the family must be anxious for an arrest.

 

[MistyWaters]

Lol we can theorize how we like, ruling things in/out based on our own findings.
There would be no reason to kill the horse, she can’t talk.
IMO, the logging area was convenient & accessible (free of snow). Jmo

Okay, my apologies maybe I misunderstood. You mentioned knowledge of where to turn the horse loose ruled out a stranger.

That may be where we disagree because I don’t think we have enough information to rule out anything. It could be a deranged lunatic high on meth who spotted Ben while out riding and decided he didn’t like the look of him.

 

[zecats]

But are we sure we can absolutely rule out that he wasn’t riding in a remote area when he was attacked?

The location where Gunny was found IMO is unusual. What do you think was the point behind letting her loose in a location that was being logged? That’s the significant contradiction that makes no sense to me. Anyone who is capable of murdering a man and hiding the body from discovery is surely capable of killing his horse too. Instead it was the discovery of Gunny and no trace of Ben that brought immediate questions about his disappearance.

I’d say Gunny was dropped in a location where she WOULD be found. All saddled and bridled up with Ben’s tack. She was supposed to be found for a reason. imo.

If not why bother putting a saddle on her. Killing the horse would not require a saddle and would provoke a mystery. This whole deal makes the riding accident feasible and it matches the story that claimed that Ben went off riding. To search cattle or whatever. All imo.

 

[MistyWaters]

IMO, the Tyner family alerted LE to the suspect based on knowledge they had from convo with Ben.
Agree, the family must be anxious for an arrest.

Part of me hopes the family have been able to offer tips to LE based on prior conversations. But if you’re suggesting you think they suspect someone with any level of certainty, I’m not certain it can be taken quite that far. That’s sort of a hefty weight to place on their shoulders I think because of the obvious question — if they were aware Ben believed a situation with someone posed a serious threat to his life why didn’t they ensure he reported it to the RCMP as well?

 

[Trudie]

I’d say Gunny was dropped in a location where she WOULD be found. All saddled and bridled up with Ben’s tack. She was supposed to be found for a reason. imo.

If not why bother putting a saddle on her. Killing the horse would not require a saddle and would provoke a mystery. This whole deal makes the riding accident feasible and it matches the story that claimed that Ben went off riding. To search cattle or whatever. All imo.

Also, my suspect likes horses. Killing a horse wouldn’t be his style. Horses don’t talk. Moo

 

[zecats]

Also, my suspect likes horses. Killing a horse wouldn’t be his style. Horses don’t talk. Moo

And killing the horse would make it MORE likely to point to Ben being killed too instead of missing from a fall.
Unless someone were to hide the horse as well. That doesn’t work with accident scenario trying to be portrayed. JMO

 

[Trudie]

Part of me hopes the family have been able to offer tips to LE based on prior conversations. But if you’re suggesting you think they suspect someone with any level of certainty, I’m not certain it can be taken quite that far. That’s sort of a hefty weight to place on their shoulders I think because of the obvious question — if they were aware Ben believed a situation with someone posed a serious threat to his life why didn’t they ensure he reported it to the RCMP as well?

Idk that Ben thought someone posed a threat to his life. I do think Ben discussed issues with his brother & immediately upon learning Ben was missing, Jack suspected his brother did not fall from Gunny. Furthermore, it is my opinion only that Jack shared his knowledge with RCMP & after a preliminary investigation into Jack’s info they realized MCU needed to get involved asap.

 

[MistyWaters]

I’d say Gunny was dropped in a location where she WOULD be found. All saddled and bridled up with Ben’s tack. She was supposed to be found for a reason. imo.

If not why bother putting a saddle on her. Killing the horse would not require a saddle and would provoke a mystery. This whole deal makes the riding accident feasible and it matches the story that claimed that Ben went off riding. To search cattle or whatever. All imo.

There’s a very wide rugged area surrounding Merritt. If the riderless Gunny had not found so soon, everyone would’ve been baffled about where both the missing horse and rider had disappeared to for much longer.

I agree it appears Gunny was intended to be found, but that’s why I still can’t think of a good reason for the perpetrator to intend on bringing attention to Ben’s disappearance relatively shortly thereafter, especially because a truck and trailer would’ve been required for transport.

 

[zecats]

There’s a very wide rugged area surrounding Merritt. If the riderless Gunny had not found so soon, everyone would’ve been baffled about where both the missing horse and rider had disappeared to for much longer.

I agree it appears Gunny was intended to be found, but that’s why I still can’t think of a good reason for the perpetrator to intend on bringing attention to Ben’s disappearance relatively shortly thereafter, especially because a truck and trailer would’ve been required for transport.

Gunny was found Monday morning. Maybe only because KR was out there then. Who knew she would be found quickly.

And, we don’t know when Ben really went missing. Friday night? Probably not. But at least as early as Saturday afternoon. That gives some time leeway.

And Ben would have been found to be missing anyway. Probably Monday when he didn’t show up to work.

 

[Trudie]

Gunny was found Monday morning. Maybe only because KR was out there then. Who knew she would be found quickly.

And, we don’t know when Ben really went missing. Friday night? Probably not. But at least as early as Saturday afternoon. That gives some time leeway.

And Ben would have been found to be missing anyway. Probably Monday when he didn’t show up to work.

Exactly. Then the “he rode out around 2 Saturday” storyline would have still been the theme, farm staff calling each other “have you seen Ben?”
Moo

 

[Sillybilly]

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[Satchie]

There’s a very wide rugged area surrounding Merritt. If the riderless Gunny had not found so soon, everyone would’ve been baffled about where both the missing horse and rider had disappeared to for much longer.

I agree it appears Gunny was intended to be found, but that’s why I still can’t think of a good reason for the perpetrator to intend on bringing attention to Ben’s disappearance relatively shortly thereafter, especially because a truck and trailer would’ve been required for transport.

I don't think it could have been anticipated how soon the horse would be found, that's not within anyone's control.

Also, IMO, the area seems wide open but it's almost all private land with fences and locked gates (I've stayed near the ranch at Monck Park, and Quilchena). So maybe not many routes to take on horseback from the ranch, and definitely not many places to pull in somewhere with a truck and horse trailer, where you won't potentially be approached by a vigilant landowner.

 

[superbee]

But are we sure we can absolutely rule out that he wasn’t riding in a remote area when he was attacked?

The location where Gunny was found IMO is unusual. What do you think was the point behind letting her loose in a location that was being logged? That’s the significant contradiction that makes no sense to me. Anyone who is capable of murdering a man and hiding the body from discovery is surely capable of killing his horse too. Instead it was the discovery of Gunny and no trace of Ben that brought immediate questions about his disappearance.

Perhaps Ben and Gunny were both transported up to the logging area by someone Ben trusted, maybe the evil one offered to show Ben caves, old mines, and shacks on the mountain by horseback? Up on the mountain Ben unloads and gets on Gunny, his back is turned, boom, and Ben falls. Gunny is upset by all the sudden commotion, the killer cannot catch her in his hurry, so he loads Ben in the horse trailer beside his horse, and takes off, leaving Gunny on the logging road. Gunny is from Wyoming, and if trailered in, could be confused where 'home' to return to, is. This ambush could have happened near a big log landing (logging truck loading area) where the killer's truck and trailer could be turned around.

Maybe the killer is capable of killing a human, but cannot shoot a horse? In a WS case in Ohio, 8 adult family members were shot dead in bed in the night, but 2 children and several dogs at the homes were not hurt. Or he hopes when Gunny is found, or makes her way back to the ranch, it will be simply assumed Ben was fatally injured during a ride somewhere on the big mountain. Perhaps the reason the police are asking for any cam coverage is they are certain that Ben and his horse were taken up that mountain by someone, and they had to be on and near that big busy highway to do it. Are there highway traffic cams in the area?

Was there minute blood spatter of Ben's on Gunny's saddle, reins, Gunny? Hopefully some clue was left showing Ben was attacked in the saddle. Maybe the person with the trailer will not willingly surrender it because there is blood evidence from Ben, and no matter how much it is scrubbed Luminol will glow? jmo

 

[Jim_M]

Perhaps Ben and Gunny were both transported up to the logging area by someone Ben trusted, maybe the evil one offered to show Ben caves, old mines, and shacks on the mountain by horseback? Up on the mountain Ben unloads and gets on Gunny, his back is turned, boom, and Ben falls. Gunny is upset by all the sudden commotion, the killer cannot catch her in his hurry, so he loads Ben in the horse trailer beside his horse, and takes off, leaving Gunny on the logging road. Gunny is from Wyoming, and if trailered in, could be confused where 'home' to return to, is. This ambush could have happened near a big log landing (logging truck loading area) where the killer's truck and trailer could be turned around.

Maybe the killer is capable of killing a human, but cannot shoot a horse? In a WS case in Ohio, 8 adult family members were shot dead in bed in the night, but 2 children and several dogs at the homes were not hurt. Or he hopes when Gunny is found, or makes her way back to the ranch, it will be simply assumed Ben was fatally injured during a ride somewhere on the big mountain. Perhaps the reason the police are asking for any cam coverage is they are certain that Ben and his horse were taken up that mountain by someone, and they had to be on and near that big busy highway to do it. Are there highway traffic cams in the area?

Was there minute blood spatter of Ben's on Gunny's saddle, reins, Gunny? Hopefully some clue was left showing Ben was attacked in the saddle. Maybe the person with the trailer will not willingly surrender it because there is blood evidence from Ben, and no matter how much it is scrubbed Luminol will glow? jmo

You present a strong scenario with your entire post. I like it. However. Yeah, I know, there's always a wise guy with a 'however' in the peanut gallery.

You got me to thinking. Serious smoke outta the ears stuff.

What if there was no blood on the saddle? Or on Gunny? What if the criminality not only included the murder of Ben, but the staging of Gunny out in the wilds? Ben didn't need to be transported with his horse. But the horse being found was crucial to the whole, "Ben went for a ride", scenario to work. We don't even really have a locked in timeline for Ben's last 'seen alive', do we?

There appears to be a lot of time that the killer(s) had at their disposal. It could have even been from town, if that's where he ended up. They could have ambushed him, taken him somewhere that LE needs to find, and then returned his truck back to home. Then carried on with the Gunny plan. If that's what this was.....

Or maybe LE does have a better feel, and is tracking down leads from there?

Slightly OT, but I would have bought this man a drink. And I would have happily listened to his many stories of the life that he led. The world is a darker place with his loss. All JMO.

 

[zecats]

You present a strong scenario with your entire post. I like it. However. Yeah, I know, there's always a wise guy with a 'however' in the peanut gallery.

You got me to thinking. Serious smoke outta the ears stuff.

What if there was no blood on the saddle? Or on Gunny? What if the criminality not only included the murder of Ben, but the staging of Gunny out in the wilds? Ben didn't need to be transported with his horse. But the horse being found was crucial to the whole, "Ben went for a ride", scenario to work. We don't even really have a locked in timeline for Ben's last 'seen alive', do we?

There appears to be a lot of time that the killer(s) had at their disposal. It could have even been from town, if that's where he ended up. They could have ambushed him, taken him somewhere that LE needs to find, and then returned his truck back to home. Then carried on with the Gunny plan. If that's what this was.....

Or maybe LE does have a better feel, and is tracking down leads from there?

Slightly OT, but I would have bought this man a drink. And I would have happily listened to his many stories of the life that he led. The world is a darker place with his loss. All JMO.

This is the theory many of us believe. And you’re absolutely spot on about losing a man like Ben. I’d drink with him too. Cheers to this kind cowboy.