CANADA Canada - Ben Tyner, 32, cowboy, horse returned w/o him, Merritt, British Columbia, 26 Jan 2019 - #2

[otto]

Just dawned on me when I read your first paragraph. Ben usually let someone know when he goes out. We only have someone's word that this time Ben didn't let anyone know he was going out or where he was going?

Whose word do we have? Do you recall who first reported him missing, and to whom? Did a ranch hand report it to his manager, and his manager couldn't find Ben so he called the RCMP, or was it another manager who first noticed him missing and how/when was it first reported to RCMP? Who knew that the Ranch Manager was on a weekend vacation without his cell phone or dog?

 

[otto]

I think it's important to remember that Ben, from Wyoming, worked ranches in Russia, and he was hired by a Taiwanese family to manage the second or third largest ranch in British Columbia, Canada. All this represents years of working with foreign time zones, and a problem if he misses a call. Does anyone actually believe that he didn't keep a cell phone with him at all times?

 

[otto]

Ben is not hiding.

• who had motive and means
• what did the murderer do with Ben's body
• was there a bonfire in the days after his murder
• was there logging at the ranch that weekend
• was there a dead animal smell

 

[Jim_M]

I think it's important to remember that Ben, from Wyoming, worked ranches in Russia, and he was hired by a Taiwanese family to manage the second or third largest ranch in British Columbia, Canada. All this represents years of working with foreign time zones, and a problem if he misses a call. Does anyone actually believe that he didn't keep a cell phone with him at all times?

I don’t believe anyone thinks otherwise. He obviously kept his phone close. That’s a big red flag in this case. And hopefully LE is investigating everything there!

 

[zecats]

That brings me back to the first question I had after learning that foul play was suspected: who first reported that he was going backcountry riding for the weekend? That is the first person I would suspect. When was it first said, who heard it second and when?

Everyone, even cowboys, has a cell phone next to them, especially the manager of a large ranch. Since when do ranchers take weekend getaway vacations? Cowboys and hunters never leave the dog at home.

Could the horse's rein have been broken if the horse was manhandled into a trailer?

I don't know what you mean by weekend getaway or winter camping trip. I have only read statements that he was "in the back country looking for strays." And that no one reported him missing because he was on his day off.

The questioning arose over who saw him last and when, many times being stated as Saturday afternoon at the ranch, Saturday afternoon riding out, and one time Saturday evening (article called "Time Frame Narrowed Down" and listed on thread). Some speculation even involved Sunday. It was never reported who gave any of this info to LE. And yes, we discussed that earlier that this person likely was spinning a tall tale, unless Ben was on horseback Saturday afternoon just riding close by, for example.. The Saturday afternoon time caused many here to question it initially since that was considered a late start to ride out looking for strays. I never read info that Ben intended to camp or stay out all weekend.

Ben was not reported missing until Monday, AFTER Gunny was found and identified as his horse. KR stated horse was jumpy and kept stepping on her reins the were dragging on the ground - most likely reason for rein being broken IMO.

 

[zecats]

Whose word do we have? Do you recall who first reported him missing, and to whom? Did a ranch hand report it to his manager, and his manager couldn't find Ben so he called the RCMP, or was it another manager who first noticed him missing and how/when was it first reported to RCMP? Who knew that the Ranch Manager was on a weekend vacation without his cell phone or dog?

Here's some early reporting. And I can see why you stated he was on a weekend camping trip. He being on his days off meant that he was not working that weekend and therefore no one reported him missing as he didn't have to show up for work. It is believed Ben's residence is not exactly adjacent to the main ranch or ranch hands residences. He could have been lounging around in his kitchen drinking coffee all weekend, or in town, because supposedly no one thought anything about not seeing him.

Discovery of riderless horse prompts search for missing B.C. 'cowboy'

Mounties are searching for a man they're describing as a missing cowboy after a riderless horse was located by loggers near Merritt, B.C.

The horse, which was in full gear, was discovered Monday morning, and local ranchers were able to identify its owner.

The 32-year-old man works on a ranch but had been on his days off, so his disappearance hadn't been noted. A manager at the ranch identified him to The Canadian Press as Ben Tyner.

PHOTOS


Ben Tyner was last seen Saturday, but was not reported missing until his horse was found in full gear without a rider two days later. (Facebook)

He was last seen Saturday afternoon, Merritt RCMP said in a statement. They believe he'd been riding in the backcountry, but his planned route and time of departure are unknown.

 

[zecats]

Whose word do we have? Do you recall who first reported him missing, and to whom? Did a ranch hand report it to his manager, and his manager couldn't find Ben so he called the RCMP, or was it another manager who first noticed him missing and how/when was it first reported to RCMP? Who knew that the Ranch Manager was on a weekend vacation without his cell phone or dog?

And another with TS the ranch's office manger statements.

Horse belonging to missing Merritt cowboy arrived at ranch unscathed

The horse owned and last ridden by missing cowboy Ben Tyner arrived at the Nicola Ranch unscathed with nothing to indicate how it had lost its rider, according to the ranch office manager.

Tammy Straya told Postmedia News that Tyner had brought the horse with him from Wyoming when he took the job as Nicola Ranch’s ranch manager three months ago.

“The horse is good. Nothing attacked the horse; something might have scared it, but there’s no blood, no spur marks, no scratches. It’s his horse, and it’s a gentle horse,” Straya said.

The search for Tyner has been underway since Monday afternoon, after the riderless and fully tacked horse was found by loggers in the area. The horse was taken to the Nicola Ranch where a brand inspector confirmed it was Tyner’s.

Nicola Valley SAR and Kamloops SAR began the search, backed by several volunteers from other search-and-rescue groups. By Tuesday there were 40 search-and-rescue workers on site plus police dogs, snowmobiles and RCMP air support, including drones. The search continued Wednesday, with the help of the Lower Nicola Indian Band.

Straya said Tyner was last seen on Saturday. She said his truck and trailer are still parked in his driveway and there was nothing to suggest in what direction he had headed or why.

“We don’t know where he was going. It’s totally out of character for him to leave the ranch without notifying someone. None of this is adding up. It’s a flippin’ mystery,” she said, adding the search was weighing heavily on ranch staff.

“It’s so horrible, none of us have ate or slept. We’re worried sick.”

 

[cody22]

That brings me back to the first question I had after learning that foul play was suspected: who first reported that he was going backcountry riding for the weekend? That is the first person I would suspect. When was it first said, who heard it second and when?

Everyone, even cowboys, has a cell phone next to them, especially the manager of a large ranch. Since when do ranchers take weekend getaway vacations? Cowboys and hunters never leave the dog at home.

Could the horse's rein have been broken if the horse was manhandled into a trailer?

The horse probably stepped on his loose rein while moving (walking, trotting, etc.) and broke it....moo

 

[MistyWaters]

I think it's important to remember that Ben, from Wyoming, worked ranches in Russia, and he was hired by a Taiwanese family to manage the second or third largest ranch in British Columbia, Canada. All this represents years of working with foreign time zones, and a problem if he misses a call. Does anyone actually believe that he didn't keep a cell phone with him at all times?

Cellphone reception is not always reliable off the beaten path. That could be one reason not to carry a cellphone into backcountry but I think it would depend on the individual.

“Reached briefly on her cellphone Wednesday morning, Jennifer told the National Post they were just going into a debrief and they likely wouldn’t be reachable for some time as cell reception was spotty.”
‘We’re coming for you’: Search on for ‘true American cowboy’ missing in B.C. backcountry

 

[MistyWaters]

I think all investigative avenues have already been covered here on WS!

“Another search could commence in the future, Shoihet added, but it depends on what investigators decide.

“I don’t know what the next steps will be, the investigators will go back and figure out what the next steps will be,” she said. “They will still be going over any investigative avenues that have not already been covered.”...”
Search for Ben Tyner “done for now” - Merritt Herald

 

[Trudie]

I think it's important to remember that Ben, from Wyoming, worked ranches in Russia, and he was hired by a Taiwanese family to manage the second or third largest ranch in British Columbia, Canada. All this represents years of working with foreign time zones, and a problem if he misses a call. Does anyone actually believe that he didn't keep a cell phone with him at all times?

IMO, he had it with him at all times, maybe even the day he went missing. The perp could have easily returned it to Ben’s house or truck.
Common sense goes a long ways in this case, I think.
He’s not playing Hide & Seek.
Again, the official Ben Tyner FB page has a wealth of info.
It is MOO the list of potential suspects is so very short, LE could arrest at any moment. I don’t think there was ever a list of several persons needing to be ruled out.
All MOO

 

[zecats]

Cellphone reception is not always reliable off the beaten path. That could be one reason not to carry a cellphone into backcountry but I think it would depend on the individual.

“Reached briefly on her cellphone Wednesday morning, Jennifer told the National Post they were just going into a debrief and they likely wouldn’t be reachable for some time as cell reception was spotty.”
‘We’re coming for you’: Search on for ‘true American cowboy’ missing in B.C. backcountry

Cellphones have other uses. And limited reception doesn’t mean no reception. Since people who know him say it’s unlike him to be without his phone, then my opinion also is it’s a red flag for phone to be left behind. Jmo.

 

[Trudie]

Ben is not hiding.

• who had motive and means

@otto the motive & means simplified this for LE, imo.

 

[Trudie]

Cellphones have other uses. And limited reception doesn’t mean no reception. Since people who know him say it’s unlike him to be without his phone, then my opinion also is it’s a red flag for phone to be left behind. Jmo.

I think his mom didn’t want to be bothered when she made her comment, they were also going up in the chopper, iirc.
Her priority was finding her son, her phone time reserved for personal calls with family & friends. Jmo
Ben, being new to the Valley area would not venture off w/o his phone, I think. My theory, it was on him but because of the host of tracking apps, the perp returned it to Ben’s property.

 

[Trudie]

My impression is that RCMP are revisiting everything they know about Ben : where he worked, who saw him last, where he was, what time it was, whether that information is consistent across more than one witness, who knew that he was going Winter camping, what was the horse eating during his Winter camping trip, how did his horse get to the logging road, where is Ben, what did he do in the time that he was at work, did he make any specific inquires about the ranch, so on.

Snow covered ground should have made it easy to track a horse and a man. If there are no horse tracks, the man is not there and there's no need to search the area again.

Resuming the search at NR is my interpretation of the latest news reports.
Early reports suggested no hoof prints were found. If someone saw him riding out, there’d be prints in the area he was riding, or a pile of manure. Something to indicate a horse traveled thru, leaving the ranch.
My theory has always been this will end at the starting point, NR.

Speculation, MOO, etc.

 

[zecats]

Resuming the search at NR is my interpretation of the latest news reports.
Early reports suggested no hoof prints were found. If someone saw him riding out, there’d be prints in the pre use area he was riding, or a pile of manure. Something to indicate a horse traveled thru, leaving the ranch.
My theory has always been this will end at the starting point, NR.

Speculation, MOO, etc.

Hoping it does end. I have a sinking feeling Ben won’t be found. Mucho evidence is needed to arrest any suspect. Imo.

 

[Trudie]

Hoping it does end. I have a sinking feeling Ben won’t be found. Mucho evidence is needed to arrest any suspect. Imo.

Imo search warrant evidence has been tested, at this point. So many little issues must all fit. Other ranchers reported the 2 pm sighting, as we know. Therefore, their phone data must put them in that precise area. I think cell phones were collected from every rancher that reported seeing Ben riding out. It is moo one cell phone collected reveals its owner traveling thru Merritt, a fact he initially denied. Again, moo.
We can expect the ranch owner was interviewed at length regarding any issues at NR, as well as what Ben might have been working on, any changes he might have been implementing and so forth.
Neighboring ranchers may have offered valuable info, as well.
All moo

 

[MistyWaters]

Imo search warrant evidence has been tested, at this point. So many little issues must all fit. Other ranchers reported the 2 pm sighting, as we know. Therefore, their phone data must put them in that precise area. I think cell phones were collected from every rancher that reported seeing Ben riding out. It is moo one cell phone collected reveals its owner traveling thru Merritt, a fact he initially denied. Again, moo.
We can expect the ranch owner was interviewed at length regarding any issues at NR, as well as what Ben might have been working on, any changes he might have been implementing and so forth.
Neighboring ranchers may have offered valuable info, as well.
All moo

If you’re referring to cellphone tower data, unfortunately that doesn’t identify a precise location, only a range within a few miles of the tower’s coverage.

It’s a cellphone option referred to as Location Services (ie Google mapping) that provides exact location data. However as it uses a great deal of battery power, it’s very common that people turn it off when they’re not requiring the service (ie find my phone or GPS).

Hopeful however LE would be extremely fortunate if the precise location of everyone involved could be confirmed by their cellphone.

Is there a reason for you to believe someone already questioned has lied to authorities?

 

[Sillybilly]

Just going back to the beginning from article linked above
Horse belonging to missing Merritt cowboy arrived at ranch unscathed

It’s totally out of character for him to leave the ranch without notifying someone.

IMO, equates to ... Ben was not alive when he left the ranch.

ETA: Over 40 hours passed before Gunny was found Monday morning but nobody from NR had reported Ben missing, nor have we heard that they were out looking for him, or that there was any conversation along the lines of "where the heck is Ben".

 

[Trudie]

Just going back to the beginning from article linked above
Horse belonging to missing Merritt cowboy arrived at ranch unscathed

It’s totally out of character for him to leave the ranch without notifying someone.

IMO, equates to ... Ben was not alive when he left the ranch.

ETA: Over 40 hours passed before Gunny was found Monday morning but nobody from NR had reported Ben missing, nor have we heard that they were out looking for him, or that there was any conversation along the lines of "where the heck is Ben".

Thanks @sillybilly I could not agree more with this post.
As we know, because LE refrain from naming a POI by no means indicate they lack one.
Too coincidental the first time Ben deviates from his normal protocol, this happens.
Moo