CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #21

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  • #701
But how did they know BS would park in the garage, and not outside on the driveway near the front of the house Or the front door?
If there were 2 of them, as there likely were, one could have waited downstairs, the other upstairs. If there was only 1, they could have waited upstairs, waited to see where he would park and then run downstairs when they saw he pulled into the underground.
 
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  • #702
KD thinks the Thursday visitor was a plainclothes officer. He went back and forth to his car three times and spent 29 minutes at least at the door.

Did he attempt to call the real estate office? The sign was right on the front lawn. I would think if he did, the real estate office would have called the agent and the word would have gone around that an officer was at the door.
 
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  • #703
But how did they know BS would park in the garage, and not outside on the driveway near the front of the house Or the front door?

I don’t know. It was just the friend’s theory.

Maybe he did routinely park there? Somehow it seems he was surprised at that door.
 
  • #704
Kevin Donovan’s documentary episode 4, series finale.

New information and spoilers bolded.


-The entire series has frequently cut to recreated images of the hall leading to the pool room and the room itself, with the deceased Shermans accurately depicted. This episode gives closeups.

-KD discussed the sculptures.

- Former FBI profiler: This crime reeks of someone they know or someone really close to them.

-effect of the pandemic and the stall in KD obtaining information about the investigation is discussed. KD gets hold of witness interviews. Each of the four children identify people they believe are suspects, but it is blacked out.

-The relationship between Honey and her children was not a positive one.

-Anonymous service worker: ‘The times that I (heard them speak to her), they were just rude. It was (hilarious?) <my note: it was hard to hear her> because she was pretty nice and timid, and they spoke to her the way that she spoke to other people that she didn’t know. They were incredibly disrespectful.’ <Previously this person said that Honey was rude to wait staff and service people she didn’t know >.

-Barry was in financial trouble prior to the murders as he was not liquid and owed a $580 million judgement. He was calling in loans.

-Jonathon agreed to an interview at his home, and KD told a family source about it. A family source called him quickly and told him to ‘watch his back’: Alexandra believes he was involved in the murders.

-KD described meeting Jonathon. He videotaped his drive to the home and told someone in LE that he was going to meet him.

-Jonathon lives on a heavily wooded large estate.

-KD wonders if it’s a set up, and says “Once more into the breach” (A Shakespeare quote: ‘Once more unto the breach … or close the wall up with our English dead' can be paraphrased as 'charge at the wall once more or die in the attempt'.)

-Jonathon would look off to the side when answering KD’s questions.

-KD described the interview we all know (excerpt and link in media thread.)

-Jonathon believes FD’A had something he was holding over Barry, but doesn’t know what it was.

-Jonathon showed him a photo of his hand with crypto currency codes connected to an account, time stamped 7:17, December 13th, the night of the murders. The documentary has an illustration of the photo. It had the words : ‘cycle, giants, rollover, camping, yellow,’ (some words and numbers were covered by his fingers), a series of numbers and letters.

-KD had previously spoken to a friend of Jonathon’s who had told him he was Jonathon’s alibi: he was with him on the night of the murders. (Later this friend says he was mistaken, he was with him on Thursday night.)


-Jonathon “Only *I* know that I didn’t kill my parents. I’m the only person that knows that.”

-3 sisters are now against him.

-Jonathon discussed firing Jack K.

-KD: ‘I believed some of the things Jonathon said. I didn’t believe everything he said. But I don’t have the proof to disprove some of the key things he said’. (Yes, that’s verbatim.)

-KD talked to Alexandra. She said Jonathon is ‘power hungry and she didn’t like it.’ She grew up knowing Jack Kay. Jonathon started butting heads with him. Jonathon was trying to control everything.

-Jack Kay to Joe Warmington: Follow the money.

-KD won the SCC case, a huge win.

-he got hold of hundreds of documents about the estate at 5:30, got back to the office at 6:30, and the story was online by 9:00 pm.

-KD was surprised Honey died intestate. The anonymous person told of meeting Honey and how Honey told her about updating her will.

-The estate is divided between the four heirs. KD: ‘Are they in anyway involved? I don’t know. I do know the police consider the estate part of their investigation.’ He would expect at this point that the police would say the family is not involved. ‘We’ve not heard that’—KD.

-Many photos and closeups of Jonathon in this episode.

-KD has interviewed over 250 people connected to this case

-The day of December 13th was talked about, moment by moment (outlined on media thread), up to the time Honey arrived home.

-he believes she arrived home at 8:20 pm, and was attacked when arriving: she was either with someone who attacked her, or someone was waiting there.

-he believes she ran for the front door and dropped her phone (in the previous episode he suggested she may have tried to call 911).

-she was brought to the pool either unconscious or deceased.

-At Apotex, Barry had no idea about what had happened at home. He sent his last email from his desktop computer at Apotex at 8:23 pm, and was home by 9:00pm

-a friend says she believed the killer was waiting in the pool room and saw Barry’s headlights through the glass brick wall of the pool room as he entered the underground garage. That’s how they knew he was home. They went down the hallway and met him as he entered the home.

-KD believes: Barry was taken to the pool room while still alive, and he was showed Honey. Whoever did this to him wanted him to see his wife in that situation (bloodied, tied to the railing by her neck, unconscious or deceased). He was then killed with a thin ligature and staged similarly to the statues. (The pathologist said he believed there was significance to how Barry’s legs were crossed and the way he was posed or staged.)

-the thin ligature was used to kill them, the belts simply kept them in position.

-FBI profiler: that was done as a shock factor for whoever walks in and finds them.

-pathologist: the killer took delight in setting the scene.

-KD talked about the Thursday visitor caught on cctv, and the 911 call that was being investigated on Old Colony at the same time.

- He believes Honey made that 911 call using her cell phone on Wednesday evening when she was first attacked. (It’s difficult for the police to track 911 calls from cell phones, especially brief ones.)

-Chief Saunders said he knew who the Thursday morning visitor was and why he was at the home (no one else does that is close to the Shermans, including the PIs). To KD, that means the visitor was a plain clothed officer in an unmarked car.


-Friday December 15th morning and the discovery of the bodies were discussed, and then the ‘Walking Man’ suspect was talked about (details are in the timeline and posts on the media page.)

-police looked at about 300 people in the Shermans’ orbit from about September of 2017, to about 2 days after the murders to see if anyone was tracking them.

-police have cleared a few people, but their names are redacted in the courts documents.

-Different friends of the Shermans commend Kevin Donovan for his work on the case.

Clips of the interviews of dear Sherman friends Murray and Roda Rubin have been showed throughout the series and they’re given some of the last words, and it’s heart wrenching.

Murray Rubin: ‘Why can’t they find who did it?! That’s all I think about.’


Last words-KD: I have a theory of the case. I have a belief that I know who did it. I think the police share the same belief. They know that I’m not going away anytime soon. I’m going to keep fighting this fight. I do think that one day, the murders of Barry and Honey Sherman will be found out. I think that somebody out there knows a piece of information that will help. And my hunt continues.
Thanks to everyone posting here. We can’t get the documentary in the USA so these summaries are very helpful.
 
  • #705
Thanks to everyone posting here. We can’t get the documentary in the USA so these summaries are very helpful.
 
  • #706
I feel the killings and staging were more perfunctory than symbolic, but am interested in reading the analysis.

I was following the Titan tragedy and the captain’s wife is related to Isador and Ida Straus who chose to go down arm in arm together on the Titanic, although Ida had the chance to go on a lifeboat.

This is inscribed on a memorial for them:

“In death they were not divided.”
It’s from 2 Samuel 1:23—
‘Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided: they were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions.’

It reminded me of some of the references in Jonathon’s eulogy.(‘Lock and key’, ‘you didn’t suffer the way we are now’, ie. being divided, imo, because they did suffer.)

I get the impression that Honey was moved into the pool room to be with Barry and that had no practical function, imo. So there must have been meaning to the killer, maybe they thought it was wrong to leave them separate.
I feel the killings and staging were more perfunctory than symbolic, but am interested in reading the analysis.

I was following the Titan tragedy and the captain’s wife is related to Isador and Ida Straus who chose to go down arm in arm together on the Titanic, although Ida had the chance to go on a lifeboat.

This is inscribed on a memorial for them:

“In death they were not divided.”
It’s from 2 Samuel 1:23—
‘Saul and Jonathan were lovely and pleasant in their lives, and in their death they were not divided: they were swifter than eagles, they were stronger than lions.’

It reminded me of some of the references in Jonathon’s eulogy.(‘Lock and key’, ‘you didn’t suffer the way we are now’, ie. being divided, imo, because they did suffer.)

I get the impression that Honey was moved into the pool room to be with Barry and that had no practical function, imo. So there must have been meaning to the killer, maybe they thought it was wrong to leave them separate.
I think they wanted them together purely because they despised them and that was it
 
  • #707
If there were 2 of them, as there likely were, one could have waited downstairs, the other upstairs. If there was only 1, they could have waited upstairs, waited to see where he would park and then run downstairs when they saw he pulled into the underground.
yes agreed. But it is not certain they waited in the pool area for him to enter the garage. That was the point I was trying to illustrate.
 
  • #708
KD thinks the Thursday visitor was a plainclothes officer. He went back and forth to his car three times and spent 29 minutes at least at the door.

Did he attempt to call the real estate office? The sign was right on the front lawn. I would think if he did, the real estate office would have called the agent and the word would have gone around that an officer was at the door.
If it was a police officer, how did he/she justify leaving the site of a suspected 911 call without ensuring there was nothing wrong at the site? Surely it’s not standard TPS procedure to respond to a 911 call, ring the bell, and just leave when no one comes to the door?
Is LE not confirming this was a police officer because it might point to incompetence or a failure to follow procedures?
 
  • #709
He says in this clip that he never had an argument with Barry in 17 years. I guess yelling at someone to the point it can be heard through closed doors isn't an argument because it's one sided.
Thanks to everyone posting here. We can’t get the documentary in the USA so these summaries are very helpful.
I was told that everyone should email apple , Netflix and Amazon etc and tell them they are missing out on this.
When the news broke that they were murdered it was news all over the world.
 
  • #710
I don’t know. It was just the friend’s theory.

Maybe he did routinely park there? Somehow it seems he was surprised at that door.
From what I have heard from people who were familiar.
He always parked underground if he was not going back out and in the winter.
 
  • #711
My nagging question........ why, really, did the kids tear the house down so soon....
It’s nagging at you because it’s absolutely astounding that they were allowed to do it.
The whole case is a laughing stock all over the world according to people I know.
 
  • #712
Think of all of the horrific crimes Canada has had. The Paul Bernardo case comes to mind and they tore his house down, but I believe it was a year or 2 after he was arrested, ( I think).
Many people do tear their homes down or the law does because it becomes a "weird" tourist attraction or people drive bye just to get a look at the house. I can see them tearing it down BUT not so soon after the murders. It also bothers me that they left many possessions behind. That is strange and odd to me, I know they are billionaires so they can replace anything they want. Leaving behind photos, paperwork and sentimental items is shocking to me.
 
  • #713
Many people do tear their homes down or the law does because it becomes a "weird" tourist attraction or people drive bye just to get a look at the house. I can see them tearing it down BUT not so soon after the murders. It also bothers me that they left many possessions behind. That is strange and odd to me, I know they are billionaires so they can replace anything they want. Leaving behind photos, paperwork and sentimental items is shocking to me.
bbm
It seems to show quite the same disdain to the victims like the murder and positioning of them sitting both dead at their pool railing. IMO
 
  • #714
Think of all of the horrific crimes Canada has had. The Paul Bernardo case comes to mind and they tore his house down, but I believe it was a year or 2 after he was arrested, ( I think).
Many people do tear their homes down or the law does because it becomes a "weird" tourist attraction or people drive bye just to get a look at the house. I can see them tearing it down BUT not so soon after the murders. It also bothers me that they left many possessions behind. That is strange and odd to me, I know they are billionaires so they can replace anything they want. Leaving behind photos, paperwork and sentimental items is shocking to me.
As I stated in a previous post, in Jewish culture, the act of hanging defiles the person hanged, and quite possibly the place where it was done as well. This might also be extended to the killers. Would there be a curse on them too? I am not sure, since I am not familiar with Jewish culture. Maybe the children did not want anything from that house, and they may have already had copies of most of the photos they wanted. Also money was not a concern for any of them. IMO
 
  • #715
Think of all of the horrific crimes Canada has had. The Paul Bernardo case comes to mind and they tore his house down, but I believe it was a year or 2 after he was arrested, ( I think).
Many people do tear their homes down or the law does because it becomes a "weird" tourist attraction or people drive bye just to get a look at the house. I can see them tearing it down BUT not so soon after the murders. It also bothers me that they left many possessions behind. That is strange and odd to me, I know they are billionaires so they can replace anything they want. Leaving behind photos, paperwork and sentimental items is shocking to me.
They had arrests already in the B and H case so no need to preserve the house as a crime scene.
 
  • #716
how is having fights as a long married couple is note worthy
both my grands never stopped fighting till the end ..sometimes spilling death threats at each other lol..its really part of the love/hate of very long marriages

I have heard that having fights in a marriage can also result in the early demise of one of the partners as well.

Unresolved conflicts are never a good thing in any marriage. If there is a conflict/(fight) and the result is peaceful resolution that is normal and healthy. I believe that would characterize the Shermans' relationship.

I also believe it is important to recognize there is a difference between peacefully and not-peacefully resolved conflicts in a marriage, and it is important to make that distinction. IMO
 
  • #717
Noting Fwiw..
Soon after the still unsolved, grisly (and believed to be staged) murder of the brilliant Ms. Audrey Gleave in Ancaster Ont., her home and all the contents were also razed and the land quickly purchased.
 
  • #718
There was a close-up depiction of the belts. Barry had worn one to work that day. In the documentary, it seems the other belt was left on the padded bench within the master bedroom.

The friend who had the theory of the killer waiting in the pool area for Barry is a good one, imo. That would explain why the main lights were off. As soon as Barry would arrive in the underground garage, his headlights would shine through the glass brick wall of the pool room.

They’d then go down the hall towards the spiral staircase and be close to the door Barry would be entering. The lights upstairs would illuminate that area, imo. (There were spotlights above that area.)
Somebody waiting in the pool room, likely knew beforehand, that the car lights in the garage could be seen in the pool room.
 
  • #719
I don’t know. It was just the friend’s theory.

Maybe he did routinely park there? Somehow it seems he was surprised at that door.
Wasn't it snowing or predicted to be a snow-fall that night, when he got home? One good reason to park inside.
 
  • #720
Somebody waiting in the pool room, likely knew beforehand, that the car lights in the garage could be seen in the pool room.

I agree. They knew the home and where Barry would park, imo.

Her explanation helps me understand why the lights were off.

I was looking at the real estate photos. I think that person has a good theory.

There was another glass block feature in the basement staircase by the door Barry entered. The garage was on the other side and his headlights would also shine through. So that’s another possibility.
821E42C9-C3E6-4B54-B46C-675029E0C4F6.jpeg

Houssmax.ca real estate photos.
 
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