CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #22

[dotr]

I am curious to know what anyone on this thread would respond to the following…I know some will react with a raised brow

Let’s for a moment, assume that BS and HS were just average ordinary people (not billionaires), and we knew the following facts about the murder (feel free to correct me on this):

Husband (age 75); wife (age 69)
Location: victims’ home (Toronto, 2017)
Method: ligature neck strangulation
restrained by a belt around the neck
hands were tied (at some point)
staged by the pool fully clothed

No signs of forced entry
Possible suspect (on video)
5-6 to 5-10
seen walking within close vicinity of the victims’ house
walks with a gait
on the heavier weight side

What would be some first impressions regarding the murders?

Personally, the first thought that came to mind after seeing the suspect on video was
“Could it have been Bruce MacArthur?!”

MOO

Had speculated half-jokingly about BM considering his landscaping business and in particular the expansive gardens HS was planning for the mansion she was going to have built.
Plus, other family members and associates may have encountered him in a social setting of some kind. speculation, imo.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am curious to know what anyone on this thread would respond to the following…I know some will react with a raised brow

Let’s for a moment, assume that BS and HS were just average ordinary people (not billionaires), and we knew the following facts about the murder (feel free to correct me on this):

Husband (age 75); wife (age 69)
Location: victims’ home (Toronto, 2017)
Method: ligature neck strangulation
restrained by a belt around the neck
hands were tied (at some point)
staged by the pool fully clothed

No signs of forced entry
Possible suspect (on video)
5-6 to 5-10
seen walking within close vicinity of the victims’ house
walks with a gait
on the heavier weight side

What would be some first impressions regarding the murders?

Personally, the first thought that came to mind after seeing the suspect on video was
“Could it have been Bruce MacArthur?!”

MOO

No, unfortunately. McArthur was under close police surveillance during the weeks leading up to his arrest.

I think the killer knew the Shermans, and there’s no link between McArthur and them as the police found with all of his victims.

 

[FromGermany1]

Had speculated half-jokingly about BM considering his landscaping business and in particular the expansive gardens HS was planning for the mansion she was going to have built.
Plus, other family members and associates may have encountered him in a social setting of some kind. speculation, imo.

You (and I) don't know, if he was a chartered hitman in his past, earning much money, he had to bury in soil somewhere and not to deposit into his bank account. He is a mean guy and capable of anything, IMO. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. We will see ....

 

[dotr]

No, unfortunately. McArthur was under close police surveillance during the weeks leading up to his arrest.

I think the killer knew the Shermans, and there’s no link between McArthur and them as the police found with all of his victims.

True!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/mcarthur-investigation-timeline-1.4697727

''Dec. 11, 2017: Police install a hidden camera to capture the garage door of 53 Mallory Crescent, where McArthur worked as landscaper and stored tools.''

 

[Maple]

You (and I) don't know, if he was a chartered hitman in his past, earning much money, he had to bury in soil somewhere and not to deposit into his bank account. He is a mean guy and capable of anything, IMO. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. We will see ....

now that’s an interesting perspective…

 

[Maple]

Had speculated half-jokingly about BM considering his landscaping business and in particular the expansive gardens HS was planning for the mansion she was going to have built.
Plus, other family members and associates may have encountered him in a social setting of some kind. speculation, imo.

Where did you read about BS’s comment regarding BM? I am curious…

 

[ldlager]

I am curious as to why we continue to believe without questioning that the scene was staged as a M/S. it would have been so easy for the killer to force BS to draft a suicide note and leave it at the scene. But there was none apparently. Similarly, if it’s supposed to look like a M/s, why leave Barry’s papers, gloves etc scattered on the floor? Plus any killer would have known that careful scrutiny of the bodies would reveal non belt related ligature marks on the neck, and restraint impressions on the wrists.
Do we actually have ANY evidence that would point to the killer intentionally staging the scene to look like a M/S?
There is no doubt the bodies were staged for dramatic effect. But I would welcome hearing ANY evidence or clues that the staging was intended to portray a M/S.
It seems many of us have just accepted the MS staging version of events. But why?

 

[Maple]

Had speculated half-jokingly about BM considering his landscaping business and in particular the expansive gardens HS was planning for the mansion she was going to have built.
Plus, other family members and associates may have encountered him in a social setting of some kind. speculation, imo.

Oh, I now understand your comment.
There is that big planter in front of the Sherman house as shown in news coverage.

 

[Maple]

I am curious as to why we continue to believe without questioning that the scene was staged as a M/S. it would have been so easy for the killer to force BS to draft a suicide note and leave it at the scene. But there was none apparently. Similarly, if it’s supposed to look like a M/s, why leave Barry’s papers, gloves etc scattered on the floor? Plus any killer would have known that careful scrutiny of the bodies would reveal non belt related ligature marks on the neck, and restraint impressions on the wrists.
Do we actually have ANY evidence that would point to the killer intentionally staging the scene to look like a M/S?
There is no doubt the bodies were staged for dramatic effect. But I would welcome hearing ANY evidence or clues that the staging was intended to portray a M/S.
It seems many of us have just accepted the MS staging version of events. But why?

I personally think the dramatic effect was intentional. But the question remains as to the meaning behind the staging. Why stage the bodies?

 

[dotr]

Where did you read about BS’s comment regarding BM? I am curious…

Unaware of any comment regarding BS and BM,

Oh, I now understand your comment.
There is that big planter in front of the Sherman house as shown in news coverage.

Had thought along the lines of BM hearing about the new house and trying to get a contract to do the gardening, speculation.

The house Honey and Barry Sherman would have built

Just over a year before the billionaire couple’s deaths, a property on Old Forest Hill Rd. was transferred to Honey Sherman.

www.thestar.com

''Outside, gardens would wrap around the house, with spots designated for sculptures. An outdoor dining area included a barbecue station, trailing over to a concrete path, another sculpture and a high garden wall. Stepping stones would lead you to the driveway. Three vehicles could fit in the garage, which included a car lift.
There would be canopies around the sides of the house. And they’d proposed a combination of hedges, seasonal deciduous trees and perennials to fill the property with greenery.''

 

[J Sleuth]

I personally think the dramatic effect was intentional. But the question remains as to the meaning behind the staging. Why stage the bodies?

That is the big question. I’ve always wondered if the killer wanted or needed to take a photo.

 

[Maple]

The Rarity of “Unusual” Dispositions of Victim Bodies: Staging and Posing

“…the relative frequency of unusual body dispositions is revealed as a very rare occurrence. Only 1.3% of victims are left in an unusual position, with 0.3% being posed and 0.1% being staged. The characteristics of these types of murders also set them apart: compared to all other murders, in staged murders the victims and killers are, on average, older. All victims and offenders in the staged murders are white, with victims being disproportionately white in murders with any kind of unusual body disposition.”

 

[Cedars]

I am curious as to why we continue to believe without questioning that the scene was staged as a M/S. it would have been so easy for the killer to force BS to draft a suicide note and leave it at the scene. But there was none apparently. Similarly, if it’s supposed to look like a M/s, why leave Barry’s papers, gloves etc scattered on the floor? Plus any killer would have known that careful scrutiny of the bodies would reveal non belt related ligature marks on the neck, and restraint impressions on the wrists.
Do we actually have ANY evidence that would point to the killer intentionally staging the scene to look like a M/S?
There is no doubt the bodies were staged for dramatic effect. But I would welcome hearing ANY evidence or clues that the staging was intended to portray a M/S.
It seems many of us have just accepted the MS staging version of events. But why?

I can't read the mind of this murderer.

Is a particular murderer more preoccupied with getting away with the murders, or with creating a tableaux?

IMO, when murders stage a tableaux for effect, the purpose is to make the deaths appear even more gruesome than if the bodies are left where they fell.

It's an old technique to display a hated tyrant's head on a pikestaff, or leave their body hanging in a prominent location. Similar with KKK murders in the south.

The Delphi murders apparently involved moving and posing the bodies to look like a 'ritualistic sacrifice'. Court docs reveal horrifying new claims in killing of 2 young girls in Delphi, Indiana

This is not uncommon in murders of girls and women, eg Christine Jessop was posed in a very degrading manner.

Whereas, to pose Barry as seated peacefully, his glasses on, his feet crossed, not restrained, IMO that's not reflective of a murder's hatred and desire to humiliate him.

I think it was staged to, at least temporarily, confuse and delay police.

JMO

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Hi
I’m back on WS and new to this thread. I’ve been trying to familiarize myself with the BS/HS case (LE facts and various theories discussed by others), and have found myself also wondering a few things discussed by others in this thread.

Theory 1) The murders were committed by persons(s) “very close” to the Shermans…”follow the money” etc.
IF so, then why the stalking or following the Shermans weeks before and leading up to the murders, per LE? Wouldn’t such family member(s) have insider knowledge to know when both were going to be home alone - he/she knew BS was going to be home early that evening and specifically chose that time frame to commit the murders so as to stop something from happening (changes to a will?) in order to maintain his/flow of $. And IF so, why not simply stage it as a burglary gone bad given the number of break ins in the area? Or why not just stage suicide via other means such as overdose? Why strangulation? Why by the pool? Why the Canadian tire belts? What significance did any of the staging have? To humiliate? BUT who would have gained from humiliating both BS and HS? Thus, not only for financial gain but also revenge due to anger and possibly hate? Does the act of humiliating BS and HS hint to his/her need to have power over them? IF so, who had felt (or was feeling or would soon feel) powerless in the family circle? Who felt shamed by either of them?
On that note…I also wonder a lot about the involvement of JS and a business partner who was said to have a lot of influence on JS. Was JS blackmailed by the business partner in any way, as in “do it or else!”? Did JS blackmail anyone into doing it?
Makes me also wonder whether JS or business partner or both were involved in grand scale money laundering and BS and HS had to act before getting tied up in it?


Theory 2) The NW (a disgruntled individual who had crossed paths with the Shermans at some point) committed the murders to seek revenge. IF so, why the need to stage the bodies as such? Why HS and not just BS or vise versa? Why the need to commit the murders during such a specific time frame and how would they have had knowledge of the fact that BS and HS were going to be home alone between 8:30-9pm. Is this specific time frame merely coincidental? What would this individual gain by staging it as murder-suicide?

Theory 3) It was done by big pharma. IF so, why the need to stage murder-suicide?

Theory 4) Targeted due to HS and BS connection Israel/Jewish/anti-semitism/hate crime. IF so, why the need to stage murder-suicide? To buy time to skip the country? WHY that specific time frame/that day? Why not any other day such as the next day?

MOO

1/ One theory is that it was someone close enough to profit from the murders, but there were few people who were close enough to know the daily moving schedules of both Shermans. Son JS, for example, told police that he didn’t remember the last time he spoke with Honey. If he needed to communicate with her he emailed her.

The NW suspect seemed to move in sync with Honey and Barry on Wednesday night. If KD is correct, he was caught on cctv a 15-minute walk away from their home at 59 Bannatyne at around 8:30: ten minutes after Honey arrived home and the same time Barry left Apotex.

It’s easy to find out when someone has scheduled something and when they might arrive, but more difficult to guage when they may leave. That’s why the timing of the NW’s travel aligning with the Shermans heading home stands out.

2 & 3/ The staging is a mystery to me. They made huge errors if they were aiming to make it look like a m/s. It just seems like they wanted to add insult to injury, imo. Part of the terrifying part of this crime is how much time the killer spent in the home.

 

[FromGermany1]

You (and I) don't know, if he was a chartered hitman in his past, earning much money, he had to bury in soil somewhere and not to deposit into his bank account. He is a mean guy and capable of anything, IMO. I may be wrong, but I don't think so. We will see ....

Stupid me, I thought of another landscaper, whose initials are the same.
Bruce McArthur/B*rry M*rphew
It would have been a long journey to Canada from IN. The idea of BMo possibly being a hitman in/before 2017 came to me long time ago; that's why I fell for the initials. Sorry.

 

[WINDSOR]

I am curious as to why we continue to believe without questioning that the scene was staged as a M/S. it would have been so easy for the killer to force BS to draft a suicide note and leave it at the scene. But there was none apparently. Similarly, if it’s supposed to look like a M/s, why leave Barry’s papers, gloves etc scattered on the floor? Plus any killer would have known that careful scrutiny of the bodies would reveal non belt related ligature marks on the neck, and restraint impressions on the wrists.
Do we actually have ANY evidence that would point to the killer intentionally staging the scene to look like a M/S?
There is no doubt the bodies were staged for dramatic effect. But I would welcome hearing ANY evidence or clues that the staging was intended to portray a M/S.
It seems many of us have just accepted the MS staging version of events. But why?

Interesting. It is not unusual for older couples to be found dead as a result of murder suicide. I think there was a great deal of intellectual laxity by the media, the public and possibly by the TPS. This resulted in the belief of M/S or the staging as a murder suicide.
The more often this theory is mentioned, the more believable it becomes to many people.

I agree with you, there is a good chance that the evidence that makes people believe in the M/S staging theory is simply coincidental.

Often humans see only the evidence that supports their existing beliefs.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I am curious as to why we continue to believe without questioning that the scene was staged as a M/S. it would have been so easy for the killer to force BS to draft a suicide note and leave it at the scene. But there was none apparently. Similarly, if it’s supposed to look like a M/s, why leave Barry’s papers, gloves etc scattered on the floor? Plus any killer would have known that careful scrutiny of the bodies would reveal non belt related ligature marks on the neck, and restraint impressions on the wrists.
Do we actually have ANY evidence that would point to the killer intentionally staging the scene to look like a M/S?
There is no doubt the bodies were staged for dramatic effect. But I would welcome hearing ANY evidence or clues that the staging was intended to portray a M/S.
It seems many of us have just accepted the MS staging version of events. But why?

I was thinking that maybe everything the killer did was with minimal effort and had a practical purpose.

Before he left the home he needed to know with 100% certainty that both Shermans were deceased, and there are many examples of killers who have left victims for dead and they survived horrific injuries.

Maybe that’s why he staged them in awkward positions and then spent more than an hour inside the home after the attacks? The pool room with one glass wall would also enable him to periodically check from a distance if they moved.

 

[FPoulet]

For me, the posing —like the timing— suggests a close personal relationship between the murderer(s) and victims. Whether the tableau was intended to humiliate, “honour”, create a sense of closure, or evoke M/S imagery, it involved spending more time with the bodies and more time in the house. To me, this suggests intimacy.

 

[Maple]

I was thinking that maybe everything the killer did was with minimal effort and had a practical purpose.

Before he left the home he needed to know with 100% certainty that both Shermans were deceased, and there are many examples of killers who have left victims for dead and they survived horrific injuries.

Maybe that’s why he staged them in awkward positions and then spent more than an hour inside the home after the attacks? The pool room with one glass wall would also enable him to periodically check from a distance if they moved.

I am not sure the killer would be spending more time in the house after killing as it would risk being discovered - especially if HS did in fact dial the 911 call. If he/she was looking to find something (a will?), I am sure he got it out of HS as she would have known.
IMO

 

[Maple]

A quick question, did any of the Shermans have a social media page?
I recall that in the Millard case, it played a big role especially when Dellen posted a picture of himself with bloody eye prior to killing his dad.