CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #24

[casesensitive]

Who thought, the natural end of life for both Shermans wasn't close enough, even though they were 70/75 years old? Who risked spending the rest of their own life in prison as a convicted murderer just to kill old people, who would have died on their own in the foreseeable future?

Let me cite some stats Germany1. The average age of death of a Canadian male is 81.30 years. The average age of death of a Canadian female is 83.9 age. Based on what we know of the Sherman's health (with only Honey having a past health problem) there is no reason to think that they were going to die naturally in the "forseeable future". Being in their 70's was a good thing for living longer based on the stats.

I have always appreciated your input. When you reach 70, you wont think that you are old.

 

[Charlot123]

Let say for a minute that Barry and Honey were not killed that evening. Some how they chased the killer(s) away. How would things be different in the aftermath?

Barry would have maintained control of Apotex.
The kids would not have received the money windfall.
Frank d'Angelo would likely still have Barry funding him.
Honey would still do her charity work.
All the personal staff employed by the Sherman's would still be working.
The new house in Forest Hills would be built.

Can we assume therefore that F d'A and the charities and many others did not have a motive.

Who did benefit by the deaths? People who wanted money and/or people who hated the Sherman's

The people who hated the Sherman's enough to kill them is a pretty short list. You cannot include anti-Semites and the like, because they did not claim responsibility or get any publicity. You probably cannot include those who were either lost money or owed money to the Sherman's as the deaths would not change anything in the financial status. We also know that these business issues did not result in a great windfall for any corporate entity.

For the haters I would specifically look for someone who knew the Sherman's fairly well, has had some personal emotional difficulties in the past, and possibly has had some business failures or setbacks. They might see themselves as 'not quite measuring up' to Barry's standards.

It becomes a pretty short list of POI's in my opinion.

Well, hypothetically, emergence of an extra child on the side could change the whole setup - and the will. (What do we know about “the situation” Holly was dealing with?)

Any hint at changing the will (and the Shermans could be unpredictable and impulsive in this regard, maybe even manipulating it) could have had unexpected consequences.

About the haters. They were hating for a long time. Something must have happened to push them on that day. The house was not yet built. Maybe putting the old house on the market became the catalyst. Then think of the ones who had access to the old house but not the new one. Could be the staff, too. Maybe they planned to hire a new handyman or a cleaner. Not impossible.

Anti-Semitic angle. Complicated. Not as a “political statement”, no. But the Shermans were regular, pretty accessible people. A “not quite stable” person who was also anti-Semitic, working in a nearby market, for example, and perhaps smarting for harming someone anyhow could have thought, “and then this Jew looks at me and says…” So not an act against them Jewish cause, but them being Jewish just tipping the scales. I can see it.

But I’d first think of the fear of changing the will. And also, Barry did make enemies so it still could be more random than we think.

I think there must be some factor that was new, that very few were aware of and that became the catalyst. We just don’t know what it was.

 

[fadedglitter]

Barry’s will divided everything between the four kids in a way that didn’t take into account the number of offspring each had. There’s no reason to think he would change his will because of the newest grandchild or the surrogate.

 

[FromGermany1]

Let me cite some stats Germany1. The average age of death of a Canadian male is 81.30 years. The average age of death of a Canadian female is 83.9 age. Based on what we know of the Sherman's health (with only Honey having a past health problem) there is no reason to think that they were going to die naturally in the "forseeable future". Being in their 70's was a good thing for living longer based on the stats.

I have always appreciated your input. When you reach 70, you wont think that you are old.

I reached it long ago. But of course, the stats certify a longer life expectancy than 70/75 or even 80.

If I remember well, BS also had a serious illness in the past?

 

[AndrewM71]

Barry’s will divided everything between the four kids in a way that didn’t take into account the number of offspring each had. There’s no reason to think he would change his will because of the newest grandchild or the surrogate.

Almost all wills are drafted to account for future unplanned events. It’s inefficient and can be impossible for some people to change their wills with every death, birth or divorce.

Most commonly, the surviving spouse leaves their estate in equal shares to their children, per stirpes. This means that if a child predeceases, that share goes to their children (the grandchildren), in equal shares. The children aren’t even named unless their is some unusual circumstance or one or more are disinherited.

Dividing based on number of grandchildren would be unusual, especially as it may not be a static number. If people wish to leave a cash legacy to grandchildren, it’s usually drafted as “$10,000 to each grandchild who survives me”.

The Shermans had also made inter vivos family trusts, in which grandchildren would be accounted for. The trust or trusts would also take all the contingencies into account.

 

[fadedglitter]

This case has so many “what ifs” for me. One of them is “what if Alex hadn’t been so devastated by the murders that she took drastic steps to protect her privacy, including hiring a law firm to apply for a sealing order on the will and then take the case all the way to the SCC?”

Having the will sealed gave KD the inaccurate impression that whatever it contained was highly secret and important. When it was eventually released, as was a near certainty given Canadian law, it was found to contain no surprises at all. Everyone who was expected to be in the will was in the will. Barry’s will was set up exactly like my grandmother’s: net income to the spouse and then all assets to the kids in equal shares after the spouse’s death. There’s nothing notable about the will at all; I do think it’s weird that Honey didn’t have one but people are weird about wills sometimes. Frequently they think there’s no need for a will if all of their assets are going to the kids anyway, and they don’t want to go through the hassle of figuring out exactly what they own.

Public service announcement: yes, everyone needs a will, even if it is just to confirm that everything is going to the kids.

 

[dotr]

I reached it long ago. But of course, the stats certify a longer life expectancy than 70/75 or even 80.

If I remember well, BS also had a serious illness in the past?

You remember very well!
https://www.theglobeandmail.com › article37355332
''Dec 15, 2017 — He even beat prostate cancer at the age of 65, declaring after successful surgery in 2007 that he had no intention of retiring.''

 

[J Sleuth]

Well, hypothetically, emergence of an extra child on the side could change the whole setup - and the will. (What do we know about “the situation” Holly was dealing with?)

Any hint at changing the will (and the Shermans could be unpredictable and impulsive in this regard, maybe even manipulating it) could have had unexpected consequences.

About the haters. They were hating for a long time. Something must have happened to push them on that day. The house was not yet built. Maybe putting the old house on the market became the catalyst. Then think of the ones who had access to the old house but not the new one. Could be the staff, too. Maybe they planned to hire a new handyman or a cleaner. Not impossible.

Anti-Semitic angle. Complicated. Not as a “political statement”, no. But the Shermans were regular, pretty accessible people. A “not quite stable” person who was also anti-Semitic, working in a nearby market, for example, and perhaps smarting for harming someone anyhow could have thought, “and then this Jew looks at me and says…” So not an act against them Jewish cause, but them being Jewish just tipping the scales. I can see it.

But I’d first think of the fear of changing the will. And also, Barry did make enemies so it still could be more random than we think.

I think there must be some factor that was new, that very few were aware of and that became the catalyst. We just don’t know what it was.

Well, hypothetically, emergence of an extra child on the side could change the whole setup - and the will. (What do we know about “the situation” Holly was dealing with?)

Any hint at changing the will (and the Shermans could be unpredictable and impulsive in this regard, maybe even manipulating it) could have had unexpected consequences.

About the haters. They were hating for a long time. Something must have happened to push them on that day. The house was not yet built. Maybe putting the old house on the market became the catalyst. Then think of the ones who had access to the old house but not the new one. Could be the staff, too. Maybe they planned to hire a new handyman or a cleaner. Not impossible.

Anti-Semitic angle. Complicated. Not as a “political statement”, no. But the Shermans were regular, pretty accessible people. A “not quite stable” person who was also anti-Semitic, working in a nearby market, for example, and perhaps smarting for harming someone anyhow could have thought, “and then this Jew looks at me and says…” So not an act against them Jewish cause, but them being Jewish just tipping the scales. I can see it.

But I’d first think of the fear of changing the will. And also, Barry did make enemies so it still could be more random than we think.

I think there must be some factor that was new, that very few were aware of and that became the catalyst. We just don’t know what it was.

 

[J Sleuth]

There must have been some factor that was new….
Well, I think there was.
IMO, BS did not want HS to control any of his capital. Note that his will stated that HS would get the income from the capital but not the capital. In other words, she could not sell Apotex. IIRC, there was a mention in the bio BS drafted (on a trip to Africa?) that women were too emotional to handle financial decisions os something to that effect. IIIRC, BS changed the trustees of his will which had all his children as trustees to removing all children except his son JS.
OK, so, at least in my mind, it’s pretty clear that BS was not keen on HS having any control over his capital before or after he was gone.
So, my next question is was BS really considering giving a large sum to HS? Well according to KD’s book (page 252), he was and both HS and BS had told friends about this. Now IMO, this gives with MS saying that HS was going to give her $300/$500 million. I could see HS saying BS is going to give me this money and I am going to give it to you to invest in Toronto real estate for me. IMO, it would be easy to drop the last part and simply say she was going to give me this money. Pure speculation on my part here.
Ok, the next point I want to raise is the new merga-mansion. I recall seeing somewhere that BS wanted to stay at Old Colony Road but I don’t know where I saw that. This would be consistent with “Take the new sports car back, my old clunker is fine” - my words here.
Sorry to ramble, now I’ll get to my point. IMO, BS was against transferring significant amounts of capital to HS and he was also against building the new mega-mansion.
So my question is: Why was BS going along with the transfer of the capital and the building of the mega-mansion?
I have considered several answers however the only one that makes any sense to me is that HS was demanding the funds and the mega-mansion and that she had leverage that BS could not ignore.
Purely speculation here but a conversation may have been as follows:
HS to BS: If you don’t build me my mega-mansion and give me my money, then I will do the following…….and I don’t know what that is.
OR
Purely speculation here as well:
HS to BS: If you don’t build me my mega-mansion and give me my money, then I will reveal your secret…….and I don’t know what that is.
IMO, the whole thing about the mega-mansion and the transfer of money to HS goes against everything I know about BS.
So why was he going along with this?

 

[fadedglitter]

Married people do things all the time because their spouses want those things. Are you suggesting this was murder/suicide?

You’re correct that Barry did not want to move; Honey was insisting. KD’s book says that they had purchased and renovated another house but it was not large enough for Honey. Both were on the market and the plan was to sell one and live in the other until the mansion was completed.

It is very strange that Honey did not have her own money, apparently not even a bank account. It’s an odd approach but every couple approaches money differently. The “gift” to Honey that might then be regifted to MS is also weird except maybe from a tax perspective. Who “gifts” large sums to their spouse?

Both of these things suggest they were soft-pedalling a financial settlement and new home before a divorce, but that doesn’t make sense either: the amount would be far more than $500 million and Barry wouldn’t have been as involved in design details for Honey’s new home.

 

[J Sleuth]

Married people do things all the time because their spouses want those things. Are you suggesting this was murder/suicide?

You’re correct that Barry did not want to move; Honey was insisting. KD’s book says that they had purchased and renovated another house but it was not large enough for Honey. Both were on the market and the plan was to sell one and live in the other until the mansion was completed.

It is very strange that Honey did not have her own money, apparently not even a bank account. It’s an odd approach but every couple approaches money differently. The “gift” to Honey that might then be regifted to MS is also weird except maybe from a tax perspective. Who “gifts” large sums to their spouse?

Both of these things suggest they were soft-pedalling a financial settlement and new home before a divorce, but that doesn’t make sense either: the amount would be far more than $500 million and Barry wouldn’t have been as involved in design details for Honey’s new home.

No, not suggesting M/S as the facts don’t support that IMO. However, I do speculate that if HS was threatening to reveal something, it could have involved someone else who had a lot to lose.

 

[Cedars]

There must have been some factor that was new….
Well, I think there was.

I agree, and will repeat like a broken record, that one thing that was new was that they'd put their house on the market, and therefore would be moving to a different home that very likely would have proper security, unlike the Old Colony home.

ETA, remembering the Liknes case in Calgary, the grudge holder was motivated to act by discovering they were selling their home and just about to move to Mexico. Last chance to get revenge.

JMO

 

[WINDSOR]

It has been presented that Barry had some real objections to selling Old Colony home, and building a new mansion. Is there any main stream media accounts that support this?

If Barry was against selling Old Colony, he did not have to sign the agreement to list the house. Barry was strong willed and determined, if he really did not want move he would not. As well Barry seemed agreeable to meet the architects, and no doubt had paid them money at the beginning of the project.

Have we heard from either the architects or the listing agent specifically that Barry objected to selling and building a new home?

Now a a murderer might not want Barry and Honey to move, because if the murderer expected to financially benefit from their deaths, having millions tied up in real estate would not be to the murderers' benefit.
MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

Donovan’s reporting over the years makes it clear that Barry was not “against” selling Old Colony but would not have done so without Honey’s insistence. He thought the new home they were building was too costly. He thought Old Colony was worth more than it was.

The general picture that emerges is that he was going along with it because Honey wanted it.

A murderer who expected to benefit from their deaths would benefit LEAST at the stage the build was at. Money had been spent on planning and permits that would never be recouped. Three properties needed to be sold, and Old Colony needed to be demolished and sold at a loss. Had this theoretical murderer really wished to maximize the financial benefit, he would have waited until the sales were complete and the new mansion was constructed, then murdered them somewhere other than the home. There is no financial benefit in inheriting a “murder home”.

 

[WINDSOR]

Donovan’s reporting over the years makes it clear that Barry was not “against” selling Old Colony but would not have done so without Honey’s insistence. He thought the new home they were building was too costly. He thought Old Colony was worth more than it was.

The general picture that emerges is that he was going along with it because Honey wanted it.

A murderer who expected to benefit from their deaths would benefit LEAST at the stage the build was at. Money had been spent on planning and permits that would never be recouped. Three properties needed to be sold, and Old Colony needed to be demolished and sold at a loss. Had this theoretical murderer really wished to maximize the financial benefit, he would have waited until the sales were complete and the new mansion was constructed, then murdered them somewhere other than the home. There is no financial benefit in inheriting a “murder home”.

I am not so sure the murderer would see the advantages you present.

• If he were to wait for the new home to be completed, that could be two plus years. No benefit to him/her.
• It is a hassle selling high end custom built houses. Small number of potential buyer, Tastes of the seller and the buyer maybe divergent. Sometimes theses homes take years to sell.
• I believe the Sherman family demolished the Old Colony home out of respect for their parents, more so for the fact the home was unsellable. The land value was still there,
• The money's spent on permits and planning would be minimal at this point as compared to the amount of the total estate. So recouping that amount could be irrelevant.

 

[J Sleuth]

Several good posts about why BS would go along with the mega-mansion.
But what about the transfer of funds of several hundred million to HS?
I really think BS would have had trouble with that.

 

[WINDSOR]

Several good posts about why BS would go along with the mega-mansion.
But what about the transfer of funds of several hundred million to HS?
I really think BS would have had trouble with that.

It was, I believe, Honey's sister MS who spoke about her receiving a huge amount of money from Honey. We have no way of knowing that this ever was a topic of discussion for Honey and Barry.

I was under the belief that when the Sherman's donated or gifted money, it was as a team, Honey & Barry.

It is my understanding that if Barry died first, Honey would have control of the income from the estate, not the estate itself, which would be managed by the trustees. In that scenario, Honey would not likely be able to give MS a huge sum of money.

No doubt. honey knew the contents of Barry's will as well.

Many people dream of financial windfalls,

 

[J Sleuth]

It was, I believe, Honey's sister MS who spoke about her receiving a huge amount of money from Honey. We have no way of knowing that this ever was a topic of discussion for Honey and Barry.

I was under the belief that when the Sherman's donated or gifted money, it was as a team, Honey & Barry.

It is my understanding that if Barry died first, Honey would have control of the income from the estate, not the estate itself, which would be managed by the trustees. In that scenario, Honey would not likely be able to give MS a huge sum of money.

No doubt. honey knew the contents of Barry's will as well.

Many people dream of financial windfalls,

Actually KD claimed that both HS and BS had told their friends that BS was going to give a substantial sum to HS. In my edition, it is on page 252.

 

[dotr]

2019

Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or invest much of his fortune, sources say

In the year before he was murdered, Barry Sherman was working on plans to give large amounts of money to charity and his wife, Honey, who was also killed, as well as expand his company Apotex, people close to the late couple say.

www.thestar.com

''But for big-ticket items, she told her close friends she had to ask Barry.
That was all about to change, according to people close to Barry and Honey. Barry was contemplating making a major gift to Honey that she could spend as she pleased.
The amount was to be between $100 million and $500 million, according to friends who say they heard this from Honey. One use for the funds, friends say, would be for the numerous real-estate ventures Honey had on the go with her sister Mary Shechtman, who was also her closest friend and who acted as a sort of consultant to Honey on real-estate issues.''

 

[WINDSOR]

2019

Murdered billionaire Barry Sherman planned to give away or invest much of his fortune, sources say

In the year before he was murdered, Barry Sherman was working on plans to give large amounts of money to charity and his wife, Honey, who was also killed, as well as expand his company Apotex, people close to the late couple say.

www.thestar.com

''But for big-ticket items, she told her close friends she had to ask Barry.
That was all about to change, according to people close to Barry and Honey. Barry was contemplating making a major gift to Honey that she could spend as she pleased.
The amount was to be between $100 million and $500 million, according to friends who say they heard this from Honey. One use for the funds, friends say, would be for the numerous real-estate ventures Honey had on the go with her sister Mary Shechtman, who was also her closest friend and who acted as a sort of consultant to Honey on real-estate issues.''

I am trying to see if there was any change in behavior by either of the Sherman's that would have triggered somebody to murder one or both. If we agree with what KD wrote in his book, about HS and MS telling others that Honey was going to get a major gift, would this trigger somebody to plan their murder?

If I was expecting to inherit some of Barry's estate, I might consider my share being diminished if some portion of this major gift ended up in MS pocket. So a potential motive.

However, Barry tended to give gifts that always had strings attached. If he gave Honey millions for real estate investments, he would want to be on title, or hold a mortgage to protect his interests. That is how Barry did things in my opinion.

Secondly at the time of his death, Barry was telling people Apotex had a cash flow problem, due to a lost legal case. So it is doubtful he would be gifting any funds to anyone in the near future.

I think the proposed gifting of money to Honey was not likely the motive.