CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered at Home, Toronto, 15 December 2017 #24

[ldlager]

Inside the battle over Barry Sherman’s billions. Why a court may soon open the books on the murdered tycoon’s family legacy

We may soon get an inside look at the family fallout from the billionaire murders.

www.thestar.com

 

[fadedglitter]

And yet it was almost 50 days after the murders before LE interviewed KW and Desai. 50 days! Friends and relatives were not asked to provide alibis. Recent visitors to the home immediately before and after the murders weren’t asked for fingerprint or DNA samples until much later. LE’s actions or lack thereof entirely support the idea that they suspected this was a M/S from the outset. It is not reasonable, based on their investigative actions, to assume they were pursuing a double homicide case until the private detective team and Dr Chiasson pointed out the obvious.

I’m now going to speak in broad generalities: when police think a specific person (or people) might have committed a murder, they interview that person or people last. They want to collect as much evidence as possible before calling in a person to lock in their story. By waiting, they have more evidence that can be matched against the suspect’s story.

In this case police continued to conduct interviews after speaking to Kerry, as their investigation wasn’t over. But I do not think they were dragging their heels on the interviews with these three men. I think they purposely waited to speak with them on camera.

 

[ldlager]

I’m now going to speak in broad generalities: when police think a specific person (or people) might have committed a murder, they interview that person or people last. They want to collect as much evidence as possible before calling in a person to lock in their story. By waiting, they have more evidence that can be matched against the suspect’s story.

In this case police continued to conduct interviews after speaking to Kerry, as their investigation wasn’t over. But I do not think they were dragging their heels on the interviews with these three men. I think they purposely waited to speak with them on camera.

It would be much more efficient for police to interview first, get the interviewee’s statements on record, and then corroborate the specific things that the individual said afterwards, including their alibi. Which they didn’t do.
And it certainly was not advisable to wait 50 days to interview someone who knew the Sherman’s intimately, and who had already expressed hatred for the Sherman family. Remember, the Sherman children were I am sure very frightened, and had to engage private security during that time. No one knew if the children and other family members might also be targets of the killer(s).
The police believed the killer was already dead. So why rush any investigation…..

 

[fadedglitter]

It would be much more efficient for police to interview first, get the interviewee’s statements on record, and then corroborate the specific things that the individual said afterwards, including their alibi. Which they didn’t do.

You may wish suspects were Interviewed before witnesses, but that is not the way it works. Witness statements and physical evidence lead police to identify suspects.

Again, you can attend literally any trial in Canada and see this in action.

 

[WINDSOR]

I do not know if it is a coincidence or something to focus on, but there seems to be a common thread of disruptive actions emanating from one person.

The refusal to arrange mortgaging on real estate properties, when requested by Barry Sherman.
The ending of Honey's sister, free storage space.
The firing of Jack Kay after he stepped in to run Apotex.
The construction of the Hockey Arena.
Now the current lawsuit with the trustee's.

Is there a pattern, to undo everything that Honey and Barry established, when they were alive?


Also Jon has stated “I’m not going to kill my dad because he needs $50 million to get through a crisis,”
I find this an interesting turn of words, as I always believed the crisis was Jon's (who appeared not to be able to pay the money back) not Barry's.

MOO

 

[WINDSOR]

One of my goals when posting, is to stimulate thought, discussion, and hopefully some insight. I always feel bad, when it appears my post put an end to discussion or comments.

MOO

 

[Ssschu]

I do not know if it is a coincidence or something to focus on, but there seems to be a common thread of disruptive actions emanating from one person.

The refusal to arrange mortgaging on real estate properties, when requested by Barry Sherman.
The ending of Honey's sister, free storage space.
The firing of Jack Kay after he stepped in to run Apotex.
The construction of the Hockey Arena.
Now the current lawsuit with the trustee's.

Is there a pattern, to undo everything that Honey and Barry established, when they were alive?


Also Jon has stated “I’m not going to kill my dad because he needs $50 million to get through a crisis,”
I find this an interesting turn of words, as I always believed the crisis was Jon's (who appeared not to be able to pay the money back) not Barry's.

MOO

I completely agree. Jon has a peculiar perspective on things. It also says a lot that he tried to turn it around and blame his Dad for having a crisis. IF he isn't responsible for their deaths, he certainly has been dancing on their graves, IMO.

 

[Aquabot13]

I do not know if it is a coincidence or something to focus on, but there seems to be a common thread of disruptive actions emanating from one person.

The refusal to arrange mortgaging on real estate properties, when requested by Barry Sherman.
The ending of Honey's sister, free storage space.
The firing of Jack Kay after he stepped in to run Apotex.
The construction of the Hockey Arena.
Now the current lawsuit with the trustee's.

Is there a pattern, to undo everything that Honey and Barry established, when they were alive?


Also Jon has stated “I’m not going to kill my dad because he needs $50 million to get through a crisis,”
I find this an interesting turn of words, as I always believed the crisis was Jon's (who appeared not to be able to pay the money back) not Barry's.

MOO

One of my goals when posting, is to stimulate thought, discussion, and hopefully some insight. I always feel bad, when it appears my post put an end to discussion or comments.

MOO

You keep this thread alive! I think the slowing of comments is unfortunately the result of a lack of new information, nothing to do with your thought-provoking post.

I'll tread lightly here based on some previously modded posts, but I think there are a lot of large personalities at play in this case, BS and HS included.

I believe the ultimate motive is most likely a (real or perceived) personal slight, even if money is involved. For example, not the fact that a loan was being recalled, but WHY it was being recalled and whose loans were picked to be called first. Another scenario I'm considering involves founders/scientists at Apotex or their acquisitions - someone who had pride in their research and, regardless of the money exchanged, disagreed with the handling of their life's work.

I think it's important to note that it's possible to make a lot of money in a deal and still harbor resentment. Someone receiving "good" money shouldn't necessarily rule them out, IMO, especially the closer their orbit to the Ss and the more opportunities they had to keep score. IME, people in this tax bracket are exponentially more likely to make a mountain out of a molehill when their feelings get hurt (which is often).

Re: your questions - I do think it's possible/likely that, while JS is not involved in the murders, he has strong feelings about how to run things "his way," similarly to how BS had his own opinions and ways of operating. Now free to spend his money how he pleases, he's doing just that. I actually think the way he's acting makes him even less likely to be involved - he's being pretty brazen.

I forget what my overall theory is in this case, to be quite honest. I hope it's solved soon - I wonder if we'll be shocked in the end...

MOO

 

[ldlager]

One of my goals when posting, is to stimulate thought, discussion, and hopefully some insight. I always feel bad, when it appears my post put an end to discussion or comments.

MOO

It’s not your post, don’t worry! This discussion seems to go in fits and spurts. Keep posting!

 

[ldlager]

It’s not your post, don’t worry! This discussion seems to go in fits and spurts. Keep posting!

 

[WINDSOR]

Was Barry calling other people, to payback the money he lent them, when he asked for the money back from Jon? Or was Jon the only one?
Was it possible that Barry found out that the money Jon borrowed, was in excess to what Jon needed to buy the real estate, and Jon was lending out the excess money on the secondary market at relatively high interest rate. Could Barry have felt he was being scammed by Jon?
Was there an exchange of angry words?

 

[fadedglitter]

Was Barry calling other people, to payback the money he lent them, when he asked for the money back from Jon? Or was Jon the only one?
Was it possible that Barry found out that the money Jon borrowed, was in excess to what Jon needed to buy the real estate, and Jon was lending out the excess money on the secondary market at relatively high interest rate. Could Barry have felt he was being scammed by Jon?
Was there an exchange of angry words?

1. Yes, Barry was asking others to pay back money. He asked these people to get mortgages and give back all of the money he had provided years earlier.

2. What is your source for claiming Barry lent his son more than the value of the property? Barry routinely registered loans against titles that were higher than the amount he lent. Speculation: this was likely to prevent those borrowers from getting additional mortgages against those properties.

3. We know Barry had angry exchanges with Frank, Kerry, and Honey. There were likely others. His business rivals described him in unflattering terms.

 

[WINDSOR]

1. Yes, Barry was asking others to pay back money. He asked these people to get mortgages and give back all of the money he had provided years earlier.

2. What is your source for claiming Barry lent his son more than the value of the property? Barry routinely registered loans against titles that were higher than the amount he lent. Speculation: this was likely to prevent those borrowers from getting additional mortgages against those properties.

3. We know Barry had angry exchanges with Frank, Kerry, and Honey. There were likely others. His business rivals described him in unflattering terms.

1) Yes, but was Barry calling in loans from others at the same time he was asking Jon to pay him back.(Fall of 2017)

2) The properties Jon bought and paid for, and the amount given to him by Barry has been disclosed previously on this forum, and also by Kevin Donovan in his reporting.

3) So therefor everybody who Barry got angry with, had a murder motive? That would be a lot of suspects.

 

[fadedglitter]

1) Yes, but was Barry calling in loans from others at the same time he was asking Jon to pay him back.(Fall of 2017)

2) The properties Jon bought and paid for, and the amount given to him by Barry has been disclosed previously on this forum, and also by Kevin Donovan in his reporting.

3) So therefor everybody who Barry got angry with, had a murder motive? That would be a lot of suspects.

Yes, he was calling loans from other people. The day he was murdered he was making arrangements for repayments.

Jonathon has specifically said that Donovan is incorrect about the amount his dad gave him.

It is indeed a lot of suspects. That was the grim joke at the time of the murders.

 

[fadedglitter]

Here’s a bizarre detail about the loan that was being called on the day he died: it was for $447,000.

This is approximately the amount he gave his son that month to pay his surrogate: $311,609 US on December 5, and another $17,677 US on the day he died.

Barry had asked for the $447,000 back in late October or early November; it had taken a few weeks to make the arrangements.

Such a small amount for a billionaire; an amount he immediately handed over to his son based on an email, but still wanted his friend to repay.

 

[dotr]

If the Shermans divorced, would that negatively affect any person or charity financially?

Suspicion | The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman - S2 The Billionaire Murders | E12 Domestic Troubles and More Transcript and Discussion

S2 The Billionaire Murders | E12 Domestic Troubles and More - Suspicion | The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman Transcript and Discussion

podscripts.co

Episode Date: December 27, 2024'

''Five weeks before the brutal murders of Barry and Honey Sherman, the couple had a toxic email exchange, an indication that the outwardly content Shermans were unhappy behind closed doors. When this exchange took place, Honey was away with girlfriends on a golf trip in the US. Barry was at home in Toronto. Honey wants Barry to attend a memorial in Montreal for one of Canada's most beloved musicians. Barry, the Leonard Cohen event. Please, go with me. Not going. Please, let's try to get along.

Starting point is 00:00:32Let's try to get along won't work unless you understand what the problem is, and it appears that will never happen. I do understand, but I'm not alone in this. I would try, if you're willing as well, okay? Apparently you do not understand. You have been abusive to me for over 40 years. Whenever I've asked you to stop, the response has been, you stop.''

''In an email chain written 10 years before the murders, in 2008, the Sherman's eldest daughter, Lauren, complains about Barry's poor treatment of her brother, Jonathan. Barry fires an email back to Lauren.

Starting point is 00:05:37Lauren, your emails are frightening. They're increasingly accusatory and extreme. I know without doubt that I'm a loving father to all four of my children and there's nothing I would not do to try to ensure your happiness. Yet you continuously paint me as a monster and see no fault whatsoever in yourself or any of your siblings." Around the same time, Barry wrote this email to his son, Jonathan. John, I want you to know that despite any belief that you may have to the contrary, I love you very much and always will, and there is little I would not do to help you''

 

[ldlager]

Yes, he was calling loans from other people. The day he was murdered he was making arrangements for repayments.

Jonathon has specifically said that Donovan is incorrect about the amount his dad gave him.

It is indeed a lot of suspects. That was the grim joke at the time of the murders.

There are realistically fewer than ten individuals who would be considered by most to be legitimate suspects. They have all been identified on this thread in the past. Relatives, certain business associates of relatives, Apotex employed business associates and people/groups linked to the 1 Bloor St project.
An elderly friend of Barry’s that owes a mortgage to him of $400k isn’t about to kill Barry and Honey over the debt.

 

[WINDSOR]

fadeglitter stated:

'Yes, he was calling loans from other people. The day he was murdered he was making arrangements for repayments.'
Is there any evidence or media reporting that he was calling loans from many people within two months of his death? I had not heard any specifics.

'Jonathon has specifically said that Donovan is incorrect about the amount his dad gave him.'
However Jonathon never gave a corrected amount, to clarify the situation. Most importantly Jonathon never confirmed he planned to pay the money back as his father requested.

'It is indeed a lot of suspects. That was the grim joke at the time of the murders.'
One way to take focus off an individual, is to introduce the concept that many people had a motive.

Since the TPS has stated that no one has been cleared, JS is as viable suspect as anyone else.
MOO

 

[fadedglitter]

Obviously the recipient of that loan did not commit these murders. If police thought so, they would not have unsealed the portions of his statement about the loan (and the statements others made about the loan). The redactions cover information that would reveal current police theories and persons of interest.

But the ITOs contain information that is relevant to the warrants they are seeking. Something about that loan is relevant, but it’s not that the debtor is a suspect. It could be as simple as the timeline: conversations about repayment were ongoing until just before the murders and establish times when Barry was and was not reachable by phone. Those conversations also reveal Barry’s demeanour just before he was murdered: people who spoke with him did not notice that he was behaving oddly.

 

[fadedglitter]

fadeglitter stated:

'Yes, he was calling loans from other people. The day he was murdered he was making arrangements for repayments.'
Is there any evidence or media reporting that he was calling loans from many people within two months of his death? I had not heard any specifics.

'Jonathon has specifically said that Donovan is incorrect about the amount his dad gave him.'
However Jonathon never gave a corrected amount, to clarify the situation. Most importantly Jonathon never confirmed he planned to pay the money back as his father requested.

'It is indeed a lot of suspects. That was the grim joke at the time of the murders.'
One way to take focus off an individual, is to introduce the concept that many people had a motive.

Since the TPS has stated that no one has been cleared, JS is as viable suspect as anyone else.
MOO

The $447k loan was to a friend named Stanley. He asked his buddy Bernie not to cash his monthly “gift” cheque. Alex G told police he had started liquidating assets to free up cash. We don’t know all of the details.

Jonathon told Donovan the total amount his dad lent him was $125M.