Thank you and you gave me a thought, what if the staged scene was not to imply a M/S at all. My initial thoughts were they were hung like puppets, displayed but hidden, a story was being told, something about control and who the boss is now. It was personal, if it was not why not leave HS where she was killed? why hide them in an moist and potentially humid environment, why sit up deceased bodies.
What if the murderer is happy the scene was so cryptic that only a few understood it, maybe only "they" and BS & HS knew what the scene represents, does anyone else know? Personally I do not think it had anything to do with the statues, if you nit pick down the details are so few it is not at all the same.
Nobody seriously believed the murder-suicide assessment, especially after the two autopsies. JS would have looked like a fool if he stuck to that belief at all. If what some people are implying regarding JS being involved is true, he knew for a fact it was not M/S.
Hiring a Private investigative team, does a several things that could place JS in a good light.
a) It implies the TPC is incompetent and will not catch the correct criminals. This would be a good scenario if a family member is charged and ends up in court.
b) With access to the PI's investigation, JS would know in general what the TPS is doing as well.
c) Not likely PI's would find anything, as they have less legal investigative resources than the TPS. In the real world, PI's solve very few homicide cases.
d) JS and the children, by hiring the Investigative team, and offering the big reward come across as loving and caring children.
I disagree with this post. Imo BS co-opted (def: to take or assume for one’s own use), the Winter children’s inheritance (Empire and its successors). Imo he (at a minimum) romanced it out from under RT. I’m sure some people have wondered just how well he and Ulster knew the guys at RT.. I know I have. Whether they knew them or not though, I think it’s very possible that BS misrepresented the condition of Empire and it’s prospects to the (imo unengaged at best) executors and trustees of the Winter estate (Royal Trust). I think Barry was good at that
From KD’s book: “Three days after Beverley died, Sherman wrote a letter to Royal Trust. He had a plan.” You bet he did.
BS claimed “he was anxious to protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter. He proposed that he would purchase all of his deceased uncle’s assets… […] Sherman gave Royal Trust a twenty four hour time limit to consider his offer.” Three days.. The children were seven, five, four, and three
That offer was rejected, but two years later, when Sherman came back to Toronto, he “had an idea”. “Sherman drove over to Empire Laboratories…”
Then, apparently just by “chatting with people at the company, asking questions about revenues, expenses, and most importantly, product line” (and I guess using his vast business knowledge, experience and acumen), Barry determined that George Wright was “absolutely incompetent when it came to business issues.” The company is on life support
He then apparently convinced Royal Trust of the same. Imo BS got RT to agree to a fire sale price, partly by using an unenforceable “sweetener”. For those who would argue that Royal Trust was not unengaged/ incompetent - using BS’s own description of GW - who put the “incompetent” George Wright in charge of Empire in the first place?
By this time the Winter children (who I guess were nine, seven, six, and five) were living it up with their new foster parents. Btw, jmo, but I don’t think the Winter children should be blamed for their mother’s decision not to allow a relative to raise them
I’m not familiar with all the details of the Winter children’s later legal action against RT, but imo it was RT’s job to protect the children’s assets (incl imo, from people like BS) and (again imo) they failed them miserably. If RT eventually fell for a “sweetener” in the second offer that later turned out to be legally unenforceable when BS left it on the table when he sold Empire (while also being disingenuous (or lying?) in the non-compete clause), they didn’t do a very good job of protecting the children’s assets to begin with. We now know the “sweetener” was worthless.
What kind of sweetener was it? Reportedly, the children were to be able purchase 5 percent of Empire in the future - but did it name a price? Just whose obligation was it to assure (for the children) that the sweetener was enforceable and not just for show?
And as for BS’s sale of Empire? It’s hard to believe BS was handcuffed and unable to protect the Winter children’s assets during the sale. And by then of course, RT was long gone. It just doesn’t seem that BS tried real hard to “protect the value of said assets for the benefit of the children of Louis and Beverley Winter.” Maybe he changed his mind, or forgot. But then again we know how BS felt about altruism. The Serengeti and all that. Every man for himself
Everybody is welcome to their own opinion, but mine is that BS absconded with part of the Winter children’s inheritance (and in the process, changed their future). Then later in life, when the cousins discovered BS’s deception, BS used money and power and lawyers and lawyers and more lawyers to keep from having to make things right (jmo). There was obviously a lot at stake - more even (imo) than the Winter children knew. I can’t think of a more despicable act. Who was it who said that BS was the one person he’d ever met who had absolutely no redeeming quality?
Re: how the Winter cousins might now feel about the Sherman children’s billions? I don’t think any Winter cousin has ever suggested that the Sherman children have stolen anything. That doesn’t mean they don’t see the Sherman children as being in possession of (some, anyway) stolen property.
Trust companies were perfectly happy to collaborate with chiselers in those days. The Hilton in downtown Toronto was built on land where Canada Permanent Trust and a prominent lawyer conspired to devalue the property and cheat the remaining shareholders of most of its sale value.
Apr 5, 2023 The No Good, Terribly Kind, Wonderful Lives and Tragic Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman l Weekly
''After our year-long investigation, in this final episode we revisit the murder/suicide theory. That misstep set the whole investigation off on the wrong foot, and might have derailed any chance of finding out who killed the Shermans. To the Sherman's children, it's one of the biggest police screw-ups in recent history – a botched job that muddled the truth and stained the family. But the theory hangs in the air because its adherents, especially Kerry Winter, aren’t budging. In the end, what is the Shermans’ legacy? And what was all that money really for?''
Can you tell me, does this podcast mention the suspect/nightwalker?
I began to listen, but even this final episode begins with the long-disproven m-s stuff. Police have known from very early on that someone was on the property at the time of the murders. They just didn't tell the media or the family.
ETA: probably to try to suss out who was behind it: watching carefully who might have secret meetings/burner phones, financial transactions, etc
Can you tell me, does this podcast mention the suspect/nightwalker?
I began to listen, but even this final episode begins with the long-disproven m-s stuff. Police have known from very early on that someone was on the property at the time of the murders. They just didn't tell the media or the family.
ETA: probably to try to suss out who was behind it: watching carefully who might have secret meetings/burner phones, financial transactions, etc
They did briefly discuss the nightwalker suspect during episode 6:
‘…KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: And then there's the Walking Man video.
SOUNDCLIP LISA GABRIEL: The Walking man is really not good enough for anyone except perhaps the perp's wife or mother to recognize the person.
KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: In December 2021. Toronto police held a press conference and released a video of a man walking on a residential street at night. The only distinguishing characteristic is that his right foot kicks out to the side as he walks.
SOUNDCLIP POLICEMAN: We were able to eliminate pretty well every other person on the video footage that we've obtained. And so we're left with a very glaring sort of unknown with this individual.
KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: If the police had hoped that releasing this video four years after the murder would help break the case open, they were out of luck. But it did give Websleuths a boost…’
Any suggestions who she might be? (Altho you've been posting the podcast Dotr, I don't suspect you!).
Is KD posting on here too? JS?
Well, I'll confess: I'm a detective from TPS, trying to steer this vital crime-solving forum in the right direction, to find out the truth of what really happened, because it's clearly beyond us incompetent police. It's up to the media and random members of the public with too much time on their hands.
I began to listen, but even this final episode begins with the long-disproven m-s stuff. Police have known from very early on that someone was on the property at the time of the murders. They just didn't tell the media or the family.
I'm new to WS, but more than a little obsessed with the B&H Sherman case. Just wondering - how do you know that the police knew that someone was on the property at the time of the murders? Are you referring to the walking man?
I'm new to WS, but more than a little obsessed with the B&H Sherman case. Just wondering - how do you know that the police knew that someone was on the property at the time of the murders? Are you referring to the walking man?
Yes. Per the TPS press conference, the first thing police did was seize a large amount of video footage. Common sense says you look first at any and all cameras around the home (I recall a very early police comment/ complaint that the Shermans didn't have security cameras. But I bet all their neighbours did).
In the question and answer after the press conference, Brandon Price explained that the suspect is seen, on the night of the murders, on a property adjacent to the Sherman's, going in the direction of the non-video'd Sherman property.
The walker was not recorded by cameras on the other side of the Sherman property, as they would have if they'd walked past the Sherman property.
The walker stayed in this unfilmed zone of the Sherman property for a 'period' of time that coincides with when the murders took place, before he is seen again on the neighbour's camera walking away.
I think this would stand up in court, if supported with other evidence, as circumstantial proof the walker spent that period of time in the Sherman home, murdering them, rather than innocently loitering, on a very cold night, just outside a property where a double murder just happened to be in progress.
I think LE would have identified this footage very quickly. 'Hey Sarge, look at this!' 'That's him, that's our murderer'.
I realize most people are used to people who exaggerate in order to win arguments, whereas LE have to hedge and understate, because their words have real consequences. But IMO, it only takes a little familiarity with police procedure to realize they made this discovery very early on. They just didn't release it to the public for 3 years.
Yes. Per the TPS press conference, the first thing police did was seize a large amount of video footage. Common sense says you look first at any and all cameras around the home (I recall a very early police comment/ complaint that the Shermans didn't have security cameras. But I bet all their neighbours did).
In the question and answer after the press conference, Brandon Price explained that the suspect is seen, on the night of the murders, on a property adjacent to the Sherman's, going in the direction of the non-video'd Sherman property.
The walker was not recorded by cameras on the other side of the Sherman property, as they would have if they'd walked past the Sherman property.
The walker stayed in this unfilmed zone of the Sherman property for a 'period' of time that coincides with when the murders took place, before he is seen again on the neighbour's camera walking away.
I think this would stand up in court, if supported with other evidence, as circumstantial proof the walker spent that period of time in the Sherman home, murdering them, rather than innocently loitering, on a very cold night, just outside a property where a double murder just happened to be in progress.
I think LE would have identified this footage very quickly. 'Hey Sarge, look at this!' 'That's him, that's our murderer'.
I realize most people are used to people who exaggerate in order to win arguments, whereas LE have to hedge and understate, because their words have real consequences. But IMO, it only takes a little familiarity with police procedure to realize they made this discovery very early on. They just didn't release it to the public for 3 years.
I think it was another terrible mistake by the TP not to release that video the second they found it. It was a Wednesday night on December 13th. It was freezing cold and snowing. Between 8 pm and midnight not to many people would be walking on those streets unless they lived there or walking their dog. Releasing it early while people have a fresh memory would have been the right thing to do. The video they show of him he is over 1 kilometre away from Old Colony rd going in the direction of Lesley St.
This is the fourth bonus episode of “The Billionaire Murders: The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman.”
www.thestar.com
''Barry Sherman was up millions one day, down millions the next. That’s just how he rolled, gambling on everything from drugs to cow flatulence cures. Now try being a homicide detective used to street murders, suddenly investigating a high society murder.
Any suggestions who she might be? (Altho you've been posting the podcast Dotr, I don't suspect you!).
Is KD posting on here too? JS?
Well, I'll confess: I'm a detective from TPS, trying to steer this vital crime-solving forum in the right direction, to find out the truth of what really happened, because it's clearly beyond us incompetent police. It's up to the media and random members of the public with too much time on their hands.
A non-athlete still cheers and boos, discusses and dissects a sport they do not play, even if it does not alter the outcome of a game.
You are correct, i am not the mystery podcaster, just someone who chooses to spend time here.
A non-athlete still cheers and boos, discusses and dissects a sport they do not play, even if it does not alter the outcome of a game.
You are correct, i am not the mystery podcaster, just someone who chooses to spend time here.
I'm sorry Dotr if my comment stung you, you were not my target.
I am impatient with how many who look at this case express contempt for LE and presume their own superiority in solving crimes. Family, media, public.
None of them ever say "when I solved the similar x crime, I chose to use y technique and it was successful because...".
TPS has solved many, many murders. Just because these victims were richer than others makes no difference. That they haven't solved this one says more about whomever committed it, than about TPS, IMO.
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I'm sorry Dotr if my comment stung you, you were not my target.
I am impatient with how many who look at this case express contempt for LE and presume their own superiority in solving crimes. Family, media, public.
None of them ever say "when I solved the similar x crime, I chose to use y technique and it was successful because...".
TPS has solved many, many murders. Just because these victims were richer than others makes no difference. That they haven't solved this one says more about whomever committed it, than about TPS, IMO.
Any suggestions who she might be? (Altho you've been posting the podcast Dotr, I don't suspect you!).
Is KD posting on here too? JS?
Well, I'll confess: I'm a detective from TPS, trying to steer this vital crime-solving forum in the right direction, to find out the truth of what really happened, because it's clearly beyond us incompetent police. It's up to the media and random members of the public with too much time on their hands.
We’ve had officers on threads before, they’ve been very helpful. I’m not sure, but you may want to check with the mods if you have to be verified if you’re identifying as one. You remain anonymous, but get a ‘verified LE’ attached to your profile.
We’ve had officers on threads before, they’ve been very helpful. I’m not sure, but you may want to check with the mods if you have to be verified if you’re identifying as one. You remain anonymous, but get a ‘verified LE’ attached to your profile.
In addition, I am certain that there are people on this thread who would qualify as Verified Insiders but choose not to disclose their true Identity, or their relationship to the case, the company, or the Sherman family.
KD's next podcast episode comes out Friday, April 14 and weekly thereafter, according to him. I was listening to an older episode and that came on before the episode started.
As SK Capital Partners completes its acquisition of Apotex, generics industry veteran Allan Oberman has been named as the new president and CEO of the Canadian giant, replacing Jeff Watson who will remain on the company’s board.''
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