CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Lexiintoronto]

How did the blood get onto the pool's railing on which the Shermans were hung from and whose blood was it since they were both dragged as dead into the pool room for staging by the killer? This has not been answered before.

I don’t think KD knows the definite source of the blood on the railing.
He said when he looked at the crime scene photos he saw blood on Honey’s blue vest and her face.

“In Honey’s case, and Barry’s as well, the free end of the belt is looped through the buckle and cinched around the neck, and the free end is tied tightly to the railing, keeping them from falling backwards into the pool. On the pool railing near where Honey’s belt is tied there is a small smear of blood. There is also a smear of blood on the breast of a blue vest she is wearing. The information I have seen does not say whose blood it is.

Some media reports have said that Honey’s face looked like she was the victim of a severe beating. That is not the case. There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her.”

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I think I may know what you’re thinking of. Was it the podcast interview with the Greenspan pathologist? He said the Shermans were killed with a ‘soft ligature, 2-3 cm wide’. I think in KD’s book he said the belts could have been used, but in more recent articles he said that a ligature thinner than the belts was used to kill them.

ETA: or are you thinking of the resistance bands their trainer sometimes used? (She said she hadn’t used them that day), and KD said in his recent podcast that the wrist markings were severe, more so on Barry’s wrists and they were made shortly before their deaths.

yes the resistance bands is what was mentioned in the same context of the wrist ligatures.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Bobbi Pearl, what makes you think the home was approached in a stealth manor. For all we know someone could have simply walked up to the front door and rang the bell...

In relation to the question I was responding to it was said that KD felt 2 perps were onsite of the murder. We do not have any reports from neighbor video of any people entering via the front driveway of the home, be it on foot or a vehicle. Any other attempt than to enter via the front door of, especially in the darkness of an overcast cold dark night IMO would be in stealth - hide as much as you can.

Some early reports are the perp entered from the rear of the property from an adjacent back yard, again a stealth move IMO.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

Re ligatures in idlager's post..

CANADA - Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

-KD also said he believes the killer or killers are local and the police are trying to obtain financial information linked to them in 5 foreign countries, some of which do not have a Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty agreement with Canada. I never have even considered the possibility that the...

www.websleuths.com

ETA @ approx. 29:25

S2 The Billionaire Murders | E2 The Bodies

Podcast Episode · Suspicion: Murder on Mount Olive · S2 E2 · 40m

podcasts.apple.com

2019 rbbm.

Barry and Honey Sherman: how the second autopsy revealed it was a double murder

The Star’s Kevin Donovan’s new book The Billionaire Murders looks at the intriguing lives and mysterious deaths of the Apotex founder and his wife. In the first of two exclusive excerpts, he reveals new details about the second autopsy that would change the direction of the police probe.

www.thestar.com

''During the dual autopsies, Chiasson also paid close attention to the wrists. When he began his examination of the bodies, he had noted that skin biopsies had been taken from the wrists, which Pickup had done to determine the age of the markings. It appeared they were fresh, but a laboratory test would narrow the time frame. The bodies had remained undiscovered for two days, however, which might skew the timeline. Chiasson consulted Pickup’s photos.'
Barry and Honey Sherman: The first 48 hours are crucial in a homicide. The police acted like they were in no rush
''From the abrasions that were present in the photographs, it looked, and Pickup agreed, like some sort of rope or plastic tie had bound the wrists. Checking the police photos of the death scene, Chiasson did not see any indication that there were ropes or ties near the bodies. Others in the room speculated that the Toronto police were searching the sewers to see if — and this seemed a fruitless task — ropes or ties had been flushed down a toilet and into the sewer system.''

Awesome find dotr!

I was wrong, I must have assumed the neck soft ligature was the same used to bind the hands, sorry everyone for the rabbit hole.

thank you again dotr!

 

[newclues]

I don’t think KD knows the definite source of the blood on the railing.
He said when he looked at the crime scene photos he saw blood on Honey’s blue vest and her face.

“In Honey’s case, and Barry’s as well, the free end of the belt is looped through the buckle and cinched around the neck, and the free end is tied tightly to the railing, keeping them from falling backwards into the pool. On the pool railing near where Honey’s belt is tied there is a small smear of blood. There is also a smear of blood on the breast of a blue vest she is wearing. The information I have seen does not say whose blood it is.

Some media reports have said that Honey’s face looked like she was the victim of a severe beating. That is not the case. There is a mark on one cheek, but it is minor. There is blood on her face, but it appears to have come from her nose as a result of the strangulation that killed her.”

The Star saw the Sherman crime-scene and autopsy photos. How could a pathologist and police call it a murder-suicide?

Photos, notes raise new questions about how investigators made their mistaken determination in the Barry and Honey Sherman case.

www.thestar.com

For the blood to have gotten upon the rail, the killer must have come into contact with it and/or the belt may have.

 

[FromGermany1]

In relation to the question I was responding to it was said that KD felt 2 perps were onsite of the murder. We do not have any reports from neighbor video of any people entering via the front driveway of the home, be it on foot or a vehicle. Any other attempt than to enter via the front door of, especially in the darkness of an overcast cold dark night IMO would be in stealth - hide as much as you can.

Some early reports are the perp entered from the rear of the property from an adjacent back yard, again a stealth move IMO.

Imagine, Honey perhaps brought the first perp with her, wellknown to her and unsuspicious. The second perp, maybe the NW, arrived later, as agreed, and on foot.
Would it be possible? Is KD right with his opinion (or fact?), that these murders weren't planned beforehand?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

Awesome find dotr!

I was wrong, I must have assumed the neck soft ligature was the same used to bind the hands, sorry everyone for the rabbit hole.

thank you again dotr!

Nothing to be sorry about, the case details have evolved over time and I’ve regularly sent people down rabbit holes. And with parts of the details in podcasts and radio interviews we can’t easily google them to find out proof. I couldn’t find the source of the information easily. We’re lucky we have dotr

Maybe it was the same thin ligature used to bind them and strangle them? (He brought a few with him?)

 

[branmuffin]

Ah, so I searched for this commentator Lisa Gabriel, and she's a producer of the podcast and apparently on WS.

"LISA GABRIEL: Yeah. We are on web sluths where I have a pseudonym and I use this every day to kind of, like, mess around and see who's doing what.

KATHLEEN GOLDHAR: What's your pseudonym?

LISA GABRIEL: But we don't want them to know that that's me."

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/podcastnews/the-no-good-terribly-kind-wonderful-lives-and-tragic-deaths-of-barry-and-honey-sherman-ep-6-transcript-1.6793338

Any suggestions who she might be? (Altho you've been posting the podcast Dotr, I don't suspect you!).

Is KD posting on here too? JS?

Well, I'll confess: I'm a detective from TPS, trying to steer this vital crime-solving forum in the right direction, to find out the truth of what really happened, because it's clearly beyond us incompetent police. It's up to the media and random members of the public with too much time on their hands.

JMO

Have you read this thread from the very beginning? There have been several theories most that have been rejected because the overarching direction of most websleuthers is that there is a personal component in the murders. Of course, without any real solid leads all we can do is theorize.

There is a web of intrigue even beyond the immediate family because so many secondary characters relied fairly heavily on BS's largesse and were aware of how quickly that could be nipped in the bud if BS felt he wasn't the one controlling the purse strings, that he was being used. BS always was in control, in his eyes, imo, because he used money as a wedge issue. The strained relationships between BS and his cousins are viable because they existed prior to the murders. But for me, there are numerous individuals who would benefit from the murders. Reducing the number of Apotex board trustees might be viewed as circling the wagons.

As a detective with the BS/HS case did the TPS put a lot of eyes on looking for HS's will to see if it really existed? Because that will could be a game changer as to who benefits. We are aware of an urban explorer who broke into the Sherman home prior to it being razed. He mentioned he saw many personal papers littering the home and lots of holes punched in the walls. Can you provide any clarification if the holes were part of your investigation?

 

[branmuffin]

My best guesses:

—Possibly the shoes had an adjustable strap and her feet were on an angle when dragged. This is the type of shoe I’m thinking of:
View attachment 414681

https://www.amazon.ca/Diabetic-Slippers-Arthritis-Adjustable-Flatfoot/dp/B09Z1VVRSX

- Or she was and alive and conscious when dragged and managed to keep them on.

-dark, dusty slate tiles scuff up easily, imo. Maybe she was dragged to the position she was found in and the shoes did slip off but the killer put them back on her feet.

-random guess, but maybe the killer changed her shoes once he positioned her in the pool room? The scuff marks may have been made with the footwear she wore out that day and he changed them into the slip on shoes she was known to wear indoors.

I have a lot of Cole Haan mules that have no backs but they are made to fit pretty snug so I don't see them coming off my feet. They look like this:

Also, it may depend on what kind of pants Honey wore. If she wore elasticized waist pants they may have been pulled down a bit being dragged along the floor effectively acting as a buffer between the shoes and the floor.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Have you read this thread from the very beginning? There have been several theories most that have been rejected because the overarching direction of most websleuthers is that there is a personal component in the murders. Of course, without any real solid leads all we can do is theorize.

There is a web of intrigue even beyond the immediate family because so many secondary characters relied fairly heavily on BS's largesse and were aware of how quickly that could be nipped in the bud if BS felt he wasn't the one controlling the purse strings, that he was being used. BS always was in control, in his eyes, imo, because he used money as a wedge issue. The strained relationships between BS and his cousins are viable because they existed prior to the murders. But for me, there are numerous individuals who would benefit from the murders. Reducing the number of Apotex board trustees might be viewed as circling the wagons.

As a detective with the BS/HS case did the TPS put a lot of eyes on looking for HS's will to see if it really existed? Because that will could be a game changer as to who benefits. We are aware of an urban explorer who broke into the Sherman home prior to it being razed. He mentioned he saw many personal papers littering the home and lots of holes punched in the walls. Can you provide any clarification if the holes were part of your investigation?

BBM: I also wonder about the will, especially since someone said she was "updating" her will, meaning there was a will already in place. KD mentioned recently - I believe it was in the first Q and A that the police interviewed the person who said this. There are so many holes in so many stories that we don't know about.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

-he’s not aware of any blood found in the home other than the blood smear on the railing close to Honey

I wonder what evidence indicates HS was killed elsewhere in the home if no blood is found outside of the poolroom? do they have other "drag" marks on the floors?

if KD believes: the ‘decision to kill them was developed quickly, it was not planned

and he thinks the WM/NW was a lookout who entered and left from the side basement door, and another person was at the scene -

My questions are, 1. if no malice is planned, why approach the home in a stealth manner and 2. why bring a backup/lookout/coconspirator if you did not have a plan that needed more than one person to action?

another thought, I wonder why KD thinks 2 culprits, why would only 1 perp be caught on multiple cameras and the 2nd perp managed to not be noticed at all? Was that part of the plan too?

I should have added the question to give the answer context:

“ROBERT1 DAY AGO
Message Actions
Hi Kevin, is there any information that you have come across to indicate (or suggest) that there had been a attempt on their lives before they were killed in 2017?

KevinM1 DAY AGO
Reply to ROBERT
Robert, that is a question I have never received. And it is a good one. No, nobody has ever spoken of this. Now, the police documents indicate that they think it is possible someone was watching their movements as far back as sept. 17. No other details provided. In my opinion, this decision to kill them developed quickly, it was not planned.”

The Sherman Murders: Star reporter Kevin Donovan answered your questions

Who killed Honey and Barry Sherman? Kevin Donovan, investigative reporter and the host of The Billionaire Murders podcast, returns on April 24 to answer more of your questions.

www.thestar.com

 

[deugirtni]

Interesting that one of the three closest male relatives to BS, appears to have fractured relationships with ALL of the three closest male non-relatives to BS, and then some. imo.

I have never heard anything reported from BK, other reports have said: BK and JS are very close friends, BK is a trustee, BK works for Sherfam and BK and AK are now divorced.

I said, 'Interesting that someone has fractured relationships with ALL of the three closest male NON-relatives to BS (and then some)'..

 

[branmuffin]

Tragic Passing of Canadian Billionaires Barry and Honey Sherman (Apotex)

Apotex founder Barry Sherman and his wife, Honey Sherman, were discovered dead at their home on December 15, 2017.

discover.hubpages.com

The man at the door was a uniformed police officer asking if someone in their home had made a 911 call. The homeowners said no. The officer shared few details, but said police believed it came from the homeowners' house, but did not say if the call had come from a cellular phone or a landline. The officer did not say what time the call came in.

The next day, when news surfaced late in the afternoon of the Shermans' bodies being discovered, one of the homeowners happened to be driving near Toronto Police Services 33 Division (the local division that was at the time investigating the Shermans' deaths before the homicide unit took over). The homeowner went in to make a report, wanting to alert them to the fact a police officer had been on Old Colony Rd. the day before.

"It was just too much of a coincidence and I thought police should know," the homeowner told the Star. That Friday night at the police division, the homeowner was told by police that "maybe some wires were crossed" and that is why it appeared a 911 call had been made.

marked by me

Imagine, the uniformed officer was NW himself?

I'm pretty sure that a 911 call can be traced to a location if the call was made on a landline. It seems odd that a police officer would suggest they couldn't tell if the call was from a cell phone or a landline. It sounds like a ruse to get the homeowner to provide information.

A cell phone would be traced to a cell tower which would make it more likely that the exact location of the call would have to be made through elimination.

Obviously, the call wasn't made from Honey's phone or Barry's. So if the call was related to the murders who made the call? Could it have been a neighbour who thought they saw something hinky going on but hung up because one of the Shermans seemed to be familiar with whoever may have been hanging around?

If the cop was not involved in the actual investigation who was it?

 

[Charlot123]

Sounds like someone thinks JS did it.

I personally think that either the inheritance was an issue, or a business, but by all means it doesn't imply JS is the only one who could be interested. I think the person involved was close enough to the family to know that the Shermans were respected, admired, but maybe not viewed as loving enough? Something is amiss here, emotionally.

JMO - the company was BS's most loved child. For the 5th richest family in Canada, the Shermans lived below their means, but it is typical for first-generation wealth where spare money is immediately invested into business. The reason BS did not spend on good house protection was not doomed "they'd get us anyhow". He simply wouldn't spend the money he could invest back into business on himself, H, or anyone else. For the second-generation wealth, he'd be close to a miser. But for him, given that he created the huge business and many jobs in the country, it was just life purpose. But I think it created the rift between him and everyone else. MOO; I just scanned through the threads and am left with this impression.

 

[FromGermany1]

I'm pretty sure that a 911 call can be traced to a location if the call was made on a landline. It seems odd that a police officer would suggest they couldn't tell if the call was from a cell phone or a landline. It sounds like a ruse to get the homeowner to provide information.

A cell phone would be traced to a cell tower which would make it more likely that the exact location of the call would have to be made through elimination.

Obviously, the call wasn't made from Honey's phone or Barry's. So if the call was related to the murders who made the call? Could it have been a neighbour who thought they saw something hinky going on but hung up because one of the Shermans seemed to be familiar with whoever may have been hanging around?

If the cop was not involved in the actual investigation who was it?

When was the 911 call to police made and what did the caller say? We don't know, but it would be important. One should assume, on a 911 call the police would have to react immediately/in a hurry and not in peace and quiet and sometime. I for my part would assume, that 2 officers would appear, not only one (can't find a matching link).

If we determine your call is an emergency, our officers will come right away with their lights and sirens.

If we determine your call is urgent, but not an emergency, the time it will take for our officers to arrive can vary greatly depending on how many other urgent calls are waiting, the time of day and the availability and location of our officers.

https://www.londonpolice.ca/en/services/What-to-Expect-When-You-Call-911.aspx#How-long-will-it-take-for-your-officers-to-arrive

 

[FromGermany1]

I personally think that either the inheritance was an issue, or a business, but by all means it doesn't imply JS is the only one who could be interested. I think the person involved was close enough to the family to know that the Shermans were respected, admired, but maybe not viewed as loving enough? Something is amiss here, emotionally.

JMO - the company was BS's most loved child. For the 5th richest family in Canada, the Shermans lived below their means, but it is typical for first-generation wealth where spare money is immediately invested into business. The reason BS did not spend on good house protection was not doomed "they'd get us anyhow". He simply wouldn't spend the money he could invest back into business on himself, H, or anyone else. For the second-generation wealth, he'd be close to a miser. But for him, given that he created the huge business and many jobs in the country, it was just life purpose. But I think it created the rift between him and everyone else. MOO; I just scanned through the threads and am left with this impression.

I think, there were even two of some kind of miser, H also. She protected their wealth at least against children and cousins and lived relatively thrifty herself, afaik. What made her so generous to her sister and the many Charities? Idk, and I wonder again.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I think, there were even two of some kind of miser, H also. She protected their wealth at least against children and cousins and lived relatively thrifty herself, afaik. What made her so generous to her sister and the many Charities? Idk, and I wonder again.

IMO she wanted her kids to learn how to work and earn their livings. I think with her sister, she would have likely worked in the early days at least, MS said she first met Barry when she was 19 and he wasn't rich at that time. If I suddenly got rich in my 30s I would definitely give money to my siblings but would be restrained with giving to my kids for that matter.

Handing over millions of dollars to young people doesn't bode well and as KD said, it wasn't a happy house. The first two kids were given tons of money and the younger ones weren't. JS made a comment at one point, calling his businesses "hobby businesses" - I can't remember if that was the exact term - but to a normal person, his businesses definitely weren't hobbies, the storage business is big and he has other things on the go. I have a small business myself and would never call it a hobby, I built it up from the very beginning and have a sense of pride. He looks at things differently because money came to him so easily.

As far as the cousins go, they were owed nothing. They got really greedy and paid for it. They were left money from their parents and chose to blow it as adults. Barry did more for them than he had to by putting them in rehab and persuading them to start businesses which he financed. Even with all the promissory notes he had them sign, they had a leg up from the start compared to the rest of us who earn our way through life.

 

[WINDSOR]

thank you dotr! this article states they are looking for metal objects, using a magnet? not binding materials, interesting.

I think, when there is no obvious evidence at the scene, the TPS started looking everywhere, roof, sewers and so on; to find evidence.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I should have added the question to give the answer context:

“ROBERT1 DAY AGO
Message Actions
Hi Kevin, is there any information that you have come across to indicate (or suggest) that there had been a attempt on their lives before they were killed in 2017?

KevinM1 DAY AGO
Reply to ROBERT
Robert, that is a question I have never received. And it is a good one. No, nobody has ever spoken of this. Now, the police documents indicate that they think it is possible someone was watching their movements as far back as sept. 17. No other details provided. In my opinion, this decision to kill them developed quickly, it was not planned.”

The Sherman Murders: Star reporter Kevin Donovan answered your questions

Who killed Honey and Barry Sherman? Kevin Donovan, investigative reporter and the host of The Billionaire Murders podcast, returns on April 24 to answer more of your questions.

www.thestar.com

Curious how much video on other days before the murder that they may have seen something to give the impression someone was watching movements - not following or tracking but the word watching? watching movements implies visually seeing like video and camera, did they find technical evidence in the area that they were being watched? How else do you know someone was being watched?

Also RE: Kevin's reply; it makes me wonder what were they being watched for? if to kill them was not the plan what would watching them bring about, and what was the final straw that made these two an immediate obstacle/issue to remove?

The only thought for me at this moment on that would be blackmail, IMO neither HS or BS would give in to blackmail.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I think, when there is no obvious evidence at the scene, the TPS started looking everywhere, roof, sewers and so on; to find evidence.

Yes and still confusing to me, since the media still advised that LE were thinking it was M/S at this time.