CANADA Canada - Billionaire Couple Barry & Honey Sherman Murdered @ Home - Toronto #20

[Lexiintoronto]

AP's father-in-law RK (RKS) also builds houses but was not chosen by BS/HS who used Brennan as the builder for their new Forest Hill planned house. Also, BS wanted millions back from JS/AP. Was it for the new house building?

Adam Paulin is a very able individual. He has family, both he and his wife’s side who could jump in at any time to shake him from being controlled.
He is living the life.
Btw it was his father in law who got the ok from the north York city council to have the house demolished.
He is a snake.

I didn’t know that RKS that was in charge of demolishing the home was connected to AP!

The whole time I was wondering who left the home like that? Personal items scattered out in the open, not secured & without enough security that someone was able to easily trespass with a camera. Things that could have been donated or recycled were just trashed.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I didn’t know that RKS that was in charge of demolishing the home was connected to AP!

The whole time I was wondering who left the home like that? Personal items scattered out in the open, not secured & without enough security that someone was able to easily trespass with a camera. Things that could have been donated or recycled were just trashed.

I remember wondering about this as well. When my mom passed away we shredded SO many documents and she was only one person without a business. I remember reading that there were tons of papers left at the Sherman's house and I can't imagine why they wouldn't have done the same. Companies will come in and do the shredding. By taking it all to landfill it would just be blowing in the wind. I get why they wanted nothing to do with the house, and it sounds like a lot of their items were really dated but you'd think they would have done some donating, considering how much their parents donated financially. It would have been a nice tribute to them.

 

[Bobbi Pearl]

I believe the items that were left in the home for demolition were more than 30 years old.

I too recall going through my Mother and Father's things when they passed and at some point you say I have enough pictures and items to keep good memories alive and you start to discard items some others may think should be kept.

We tried donating a number of times and were told they are not good enough or new enough and they refused to take them.

IMO if the family was trying to demolish the home with all the bad karma they felt it held they would leave old no donatable items to be destroyed.

Remember HS had people in on the Tuesday night going through stuff to donate, we can see a lot of items were not taken or spoken for.

 

[RHR]

I believe the items that were left in the home for demolition were more than 30 years old.

I too recall going through my Mother and Father's things when they passed and at some point you say I have enough pictures and items to keep good memories alive and you start to discard items some others may think should be kept.

We tried donating a number of times and were told they are not good enough or new enough and they refused to take them.

IMO if the family was trying to demolish the home with all the bad karma they felt it held they would leave old no donatable items to be destroyed.

Remember HS had people in on the Tuesday night going through stuff to donate, we can see a lot of items were not taken or spoken for.

There was so much in the house that could have been donated. There were family photos on the wall.
Very personal stuff.
And some very beautiful Peices.
Sub zero fridges etc.
Lions demolish were responsible for the actual demolition.
I talked to the manager on the site. He said it was the most disturbing, difficult project he had ever worked on.
He told me that he had just crushed two sub zero fridges along with many beautiful things in every room.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I believe the items that were left in the home for demolition were more than 30 years old.

I too recall going through my Mother and Father's things when they passed and at some point you say I have enough pictures and items to keep good memories alive and you start to discard items some others may think should be kept.

We tried donating a number of times and were told they are not good enough or new enough and they refused to take them.

IMO if the family was trying to demolish the home with all the bad karma they felt it held they would leave old no donatable items to be destroyed.

Remember HS had people in on the Tuesday night going through stuff to donate, we can see a lot of items were not taken or spoken for.

I agree with you about a lot of items being unusable, and you can’t donate or recycle them. And if the Shermans wanted to destroy everything, I completely understand.

It’s the part where the demo company takes over that I don’t understand, with so many personal items scattered. And they left the home unsecured so that the ‘urban explorer’ could trespass and gain access. And some of the demo crew spoke to the press about the state of the home (the CBC and others).

And they are related to AP who knew the family for years and should have understood how sensitive the circumstances were. (omg!)

 

[RHR]

I agree with you about a lot of items being unusable, and you can’t donate or recycle them. And if the Shermans wanted to destroy everything, I completely understand.

It’s the part where the demo company takes over that I don’t understand, with so many personal items scattered. And they left the home unsecured so that the ‘urban explorer’ could trespass and gain access. And some of the demo crew spoke to the press about the state of the home (the CBC and others).

And they are related to AP who knew the family for years and should have understood how sensitive the circumstances were. (omg!)

Lyons were not related to the Sherman family. AP'S father in law was responsible for going to the city to get permission to demolish the home.
Some of the people working on that demo would have given anything to own on piece of the furniture or an appliance. The furniture was not all old, they had some beautiful furniture and accessories. Some was dated but would still be a prize to someone who could not afford to buy something so well made.
Also the house was not unsecured. There were cameras put in by the investigators. They were removed a few days before the demolition.
There were huge locks on the hoarding doors. He was able to get in because unbeknownst to him someone was there.
I am sure it was one of the family members. By that time the only people with access to the home were the 4 Sherman children. Lyons manager told neighbours that they were told to not enter the home even over any of the thresholds when a wall came down. When they went to the home to get the contract to demolish it only the owner went in with Paulins father in law. They were not allowed to bring in their phones.

 

[48OldColony]

The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.

10 Outstanding Questions-----------------------------

1. When was JS's Microsoft word draft document (for the eulogy) originally created? Before or after the murders?

2. Were Barry Sherman’s glasses fingerprinted? The killer(s) made other mistakes. They also seem to have a differential view of HS and BS based on the treatment of the bodies. MS staging? Maybe. The positioning of the glasses is more in line with the position of the bodies in relation to the art piece, in my mind. Who HATED the art piece? Who LOVED it? The killer(s) were more personal with Barry. Whoever did it cared, likely touched the body beyond the mere strangulation? As discussed below, KD earnestly believes whoever ordered this was there. Don't underestimate the power and emotion in that moment. Again, if KD is right, and that person or person(s) were there, completely plausible they really screwed up in handling the bodies once they were hung up.

3. Was Al Azevedo ever looked into (construction manager at Green Storage) and APs buddy?

4. Do TPS acknowledge they messed up the front door tampering? KD says his sources say it was likely a big screwdriver that that was used to spin the lock....

5. What did JS say to AK in 2019 at his cottage that aroused her suspicions to the point AK goes to TPS with the information and states her belief JS is involved?

6. Barry requested that JS and AP “talk to Alex” about the mortgages and $60 million repayment. Did AG talk to police? AG (alive) and HS (dead) are two people with deep knowledge into the BS universe of finances. Barry likely hit up AG leading up to the murders for updates. BS to KD/JS: “Adam, As discussed, you have to take steps immediately to arrange mortgages. What will you do and when?” He wasn’t simply going to let this slide. The $580M judgment was due roughly a month after the murders. From KD - "he (JS) told me that was everything between he and his father" RE: EMAILS. KD goes on to recover further emails, proving JS misled KD on the record? JS did not want KD to know about the demands that AP be at the meeting? This, after JS says he would never mislead KD...

7. Dennis Yim admitted that there were people refusing to speak to TPS - a small number of witnesses they either couldn’t find or who fled the country. At around the same time they were about to land a bunch of electronic information from another “entity” that was “dragging its feet”. Who refused to speak to police? DH may be reasonable given the legal web. What about AP/FM? Two types of people drag their feet? Murderers and lawyers?

8. Was BS aware of all the deranged accounting in relation to JS/AP businesses and buildings? Did he or HS “find out”?

9. JS was “taking delivery” of furniture when he got the call his parents were killed. Has KD talked to the furniture people? What was JS actual reaction to the news? Does it dovetail with his other bizarre reactions?

10. What was HS dealing with? As in, “dealing with some stuff”…

Bonus: Why do police theorize the WM as being the muscle and actually the murderer? They have goods we don't. Greenspan team likely does, too. Did the across the street surveillance camera have a shot of where HS SUV would be? If the front door was tampered with with a "big screwdriver", that is on camera given the neighbor's vantage point.

Don't get bogged down in the sludge of too many theories. They were ambushed upon entry to their home. The evidence of that is clear and irrefutable. The simple forensic evidence is all one needs. AKA, HS phone location and BS paper and glove location. The murder team was waiting. There was also unlikely to be much of a discussion. Too risky and defeats the purpose. Whoever did it, benefited from the deaths not a negotiation...

Always remember, KDs insight is the only insight that comes close to TPS level knowledge. He has seen crime scene photos and talked to people at the very center of the investigation ("zero"). Remember, KD is confident in his belief that whoever ordered it, was there...

The KW theories, they are likely broken but one can't be blamed for looking at the obvious. His behavior on the CBC podcast perhaps shows this most. Make no mistake, his animus is real. Is there motive there? Of course there is? The timing of his involvement is impossible, based on KDs reporting, however. KD, as well, calls KW a red herring in his perfect storm theory - he knows and he is right. But keep in mind, the animus was real. KW loved BS. Actual love. Its rare. They were real buddies in that part of their lives. The CBC podcast beautifully shows this. It also shows how that love turned into cold animus. KW is motivated to destroy BS reputation, hence the crazed MS theory pushing. But he's on tape being sober on this point - he told KD whoever it was, it was all personal. They "punched" honey according to KW. Don't let the truth slip by here. KW is correct. Rule out the various broken theories being pushed. KW is out.

Finally, turn your mind to behaviour. Just watch and think and pay attention to it. The most important information is KDs reporting. He is close to the centre here no doubt. Ask yourself, who does he focus on towards the end of the podcast series. Where does he turn his attention? What taste is really left in your mouth towards the end? If you pay attention to his work throughout, he more or less rules out POI. KW is a red herring according to KD. JK being involved according to KD is absurd. No to big pharma. No to the 1980's architects. No to FD. No to so many things... take the 30,000 foot view on his work. Who won't he say no to? Its all there? He has a theory, thinks TPS is in the same boat, and won't speak on it, beyond what he's screamed throughout his work? The sum of the parts...

Lastly, Apotex. The destruction of BS/HS came with the destruction and absolute disfigurement and liquidation of his "fifth child". Why deconstruct that company? Why not let JK run it for a bit and run up the numbers without all the crazy lawsuits BS was hellbent on due to his personality structure. "Follow the money"...JKs statement. Follow the money.

Themes around suicide are hard to shake off...to get to that mindset, one need be significantly perturbed? Death is death...

 

[FPoulet]

Pure speculation; theorizing only; MOO

Interestingly, Azevedo is a name of Portuguese origin. In his most recent Q&A, KD names Portugal, along with the USA and Israel, as one of the countries bandied about as possibly one of the five in which TPS is seeking data.

Others have suggested Japan, Mexico (given kids there) and/or tax havens. Portugal seemed to come out of left field IMO but was clearly stated by KD.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

Whoa! Question #1 just made me stop in my tracks. You have really put a lot of thought into all of this. HS saying she was dealing with some stuff is something I wasn't sure mattered, but in light of the phone call from the lawyer the night they were killed I am going back to it being something important in all of this.

I also agree that they were ambushed immediately. Both her cell phone and his papers and BlackBerry indicate this. I really do believe that there will be arrest(s) once the police get concrete evidence. They put themselves in a big hole when they called it a M/S and will need to make sure they have as much of a foolproof case as possible.

 

[48OldColony]

The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.


PART III - The Tributaries

Maybe KD is really onto something with the tributary argument. But maybe a different angle on that thought is needed here. Suppose you’re going to do it. So you’ve made the decision you’re going to try and pull it all off. You’re going to be planning. Here, the post murder staging is key. As we’ve said, these are not experts or hitmen. They just had commitment and time and resources (all three, and resources because of the concrete overseas evidence and knowledge of the schedules and residence). But what they did was fairly incredible relevant to their own ability. Even given TPS screwed up royally, diverted nearly all resources away from the investigation early on. Even given that, the staging to have been even attempted let alone believed by anyone, shows a degree of planning and focus. The lead up planning was likely even more disturbing. But put yourself in that position. Are you going to quarter back any of it? No. Beyond giving the order (to someone in your circle but not you) you aren’t going to be linked to this at all. It was KD who uncovered the fact that Yim said TPS was watching and waiting or something like that? It wasn’t exactly the same as Saunders’ comment but it was something related to expecting changes in behavior or monitoring it. That leads to another interesting concept. Incompetence. On the part of TPS. They were fairly incompetent early on. Not so much right now. We don’t know fully, but a tighter ship is being run now. Very paternalistic interactions with the media. When it was a different ship, there were many loose lips. Saunders included. Maybe any focus on any of the kid's actions/behaviors (beyond the circumstantial evidence around intent and motive) is a distraction from the gold mine of people in their orbit. For example, in JS case, AP and his other inner circle? Like, a name we don’t really see as much in any of the media related to the case? The same sort of thing could certainly be said for the other children. Those lines of thought fall apart when you reach for circumstantial motive and intention evidence among the kids and other viable POI close to the Shermans?

TPS made many mistakes. They may be closer than you can imagine. But the road to a successful prosecution here is a rough one. Lots of reasonable doubt. The family, if involved, have already retained the best lawyer in the country. TPS can't afford to have anything but concrete evidence. They need enough to discount all the mistakes...

Bonus: There was a serious connection between JS and BS? Like what was mentioned about their common cleverness in KDs podcast series? A shared understanding and commitment to practicality? Or at least an understanding and accepting of the other? JS was sympathetic and understanding of BS real views on homosexuality? Despite how offending that could be? They had a strong relationship? Like with KW, when BS brought you in, it was as if he was only looking at you in a room full of people? That withered away in both KW and JS cases?

 

[newclues]

I think they all went to the same summer camp. That is how they met. They also went to the same schools I think.

 

[newclues]

Here is an interesting link: Dedication — CHSM

 

[Lexiintoronto]

JK and AG werent involved in these murders. Period. Both were longtime associates and trusted friends of BS. Neither had any motive. Do you really think JK needed more money? And BS certainly would have given either one of them anything they asked for.

I know, I agree. It’s JS’s theory (although AG wasn’t mentioned, it was my guess.)

In an older article KD wrote about information about three people that are in the ITOs, but their names and information are redacted.

““I’ve seen about half. I’m arguing in court on behalf of the Toronto Star and the public for the “blackout text” to be removed from the rest, hoping it will shed more light on numerous missteps in the four-year-old case. I have also asked the court to unseal information related to what I termed “the elephant in the room” — detailed statements by and about three people who by their own admission were probed in the case.”

Murder, missteps and the ‘elephant in the room’ in the Barry and Honey Sherman case

Half of the massive Toronto police search warrant file is still blacked out. Here’s what we know about what’s missing as the Star continues its quest to hold police accountable.

www.thestar.com

In his last Q & A, KD was asked about KW and seems to suggest that the three in mentioned in the above article could be JS, KW & FD’A.

 

[dotr]

Gripping Four-Part Crave Original True Crime Series, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, Debuts June 16 - Bell Media

Key Tags: @Crave_PR, @CraveCanada, @TheLede_CA TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16...

www.bellmedia.ca

May 24, 2023
''TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16, with the first two episodes, followed by the final two episodes dropping on Friday, June 23. The series narrative is driven by leading Canadian investigative journalist and the pre-eminent expert on the case, Kevin Donovan, who also hosts the Toronto Star podcast The Billionaire Murders, The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman, and is author of The Billionaire Murders: The Mysterious Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

I don't subscribe to Crave. Ugh. Hope there is another way to watch.

View attachment 424539

Gripping Four-Part Crave Original True Crime Series, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, Debuts June 16 - Bell Media

Key Tags: @Crave_PR, @CraveCanada, @TheLede_CA TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16...

www.bellmedia.ca

May 24, 2023
''TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16, with the first two episodes, followed by the final two episodes dropping on Friday, June 23. The series narrative is driven by leading Canadian investigative journalist and the pre-eminent expert on the case, Kevin Donovan, who also hosts the Toronto Star podcast The Billionaire Murders, The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman, and is author of The Billionaire Murders: The Mysterious Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman.

 

[RHR]

The information provided below does not constitute any assertions of fact with regards to the guilt or action of anyone mentioned. It is conjecture, provided for theoretical, educational, and entertainment purposes. I assume no legal responsibility for the accuracy or correctness of any facts or claims mentioned or for any consequences of relying on any details included. Any theory of supposed action by any party is merely alleged. All narrative characterization is speculative.


PART III - The Tributaries

Maybe KD is really onto something with the tributary argument. But maybe a different angle on that thought is needed here. Suppose you’re going to do it. So you’ve made the decision you’re going to try and pull it all off. You’re going to be planning. Here, the post murder staging is key. As we’ve said, these are not experts or hitmen. They just had commitment and time and resources (all three, and resources because of the concrete overseas evidence and knowledge of the schedules and residence). But what they did was fairly incredible relevant to their own ability. Even given TPS screwed up royally, diverted nearly all resources away from the investigation early on. Even given that, the staging to have been even attempted let alone believed by anyone, shows a degree of planning and focus. The lead up planning was likely even more disturbing. But put yourself in that position. Are you going to quarter back any of it? No. Beyond giving the order (to someone in your circle but not you) you aren’t going to be linked to this at all. It was KD who uncovered the fact that Yim said TPS was watching and waiting or something like that? It wasn’t exactly the same as Saunders’ comment but it was something related to expecting changes in behavior or monitoring it. That leads to another interesting concept. Incompetence. On the part of TPS. They were fairly incompetent early on. Not so much right now. We don’t know fully, but a tighter ship is being run now. Very paternalistic interactions with the media. When it was a different ship, there were many loose lips. Saunders included. Maybe any focus on any of the kid's actions/behaviors (beyond the circumstantial evidence around intent and motive) is a distraction from the gold mine of people in their orbit. For example, in JS case, AP and his other inner circle? Like, a name we don’t really see as much in any of the media related to the case? The same sort of thing could certainly be said for the other children. Those lines of thought fall apart when you reach for circumstantial motive and intention evidence among the kids and other viable POI close to the Shermans?

TPS made many mistakes. They may be closer than you can imagine. But the road to a successful prosecution here is a rough one. Lots of reasonable doubt. The family, if involved, have already retained the best lawyer in the country. TPS can't afford to have anything but concrete evidence. They need enough to discount all the mistakes...

Bonus: There was a serious connection between JS and BS? Like what was mentioned about their common cleverness in KDs podcast series? A shared understanding and commitment to practicality? Or at least an understanding and accepting of the other? JS was sympathetic and understanding of BS real views on homosexuality? Despite how offending that could be? They had a strong relationship? Like with KW, when BS brought you in, it was as if he was only looking at you in a room full of people? That withered away in both KW and JS cases?

This is great. Thank you.
I do agree, the relationships between JS and BS and KW and BS withered away.
Both due to greed. Pure greed.

 

[newclues]

This is great. Thank you.
I do agree, the relationships between JS and BS and KW and BS withered away.
Both due to greed. Pure greed.

Sometimes the most obvious suspect is not the actual suspect. Someone may be taking advantage of the fact that BS had very recent family problems with money regarding cousin KW and his brother and son JS and his associate. Some very close insider who knows very much may have had a hand in it. Someone who most would least suspect and who may be very clever.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

View attachment 424539

Gripping Four-Part Crave Original True Crime Series, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, Debuts June 16 - Bell Media

Key Tags: @Crave_PR, @CraveCanada, @TheLede_CA TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16...

www.bellmedia.ca

May 24, 2023
''TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16, with the first two episodes, followed by the final two episodes dropping on Friday, June 23. The series narrative is driven by leading Canadian investigative journalist and the pre-eminent expert on the case, Kevin Donovan, who also hosts the Toronto Star podcast The Billionaire Murders, The hunt for the killers of Honey and Barry Sherman, and is author of The Billionaire Murders: The Mysterious Deaths of Barry and Honey Sherman.

(!!!!) Thank you for the information and link.

“Sources featured in the series include Dr. Jim Cairns (former Deputy Chief Coroner, Province of Ontario), Aubrey Dan (former Pharmaceutical Executive, Novopharm), Brad Garrett (Former FBI Profiler, Crime & Terrorism), among many others.”

Gripping Four-Part Crave Original True Crime Series, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, Debuts June 16 - Bell Media

Key Tags: @Crave_PR, @CraveCanada, @TheLede_CA TORONTO (May 24, 2023) – Crave announced today that its new, four-part original docuseries, BILLIONAIRE MURDERS, which reveals an intimate look at the unsolved murders of Canadian power couple, Barry and Honey Sherman, premieres on Friday, June 16...

www.bellmedia.ca

Garrett has talked before about the staging and what the crime says about the killer.

I’ve never found the clip, but I think he was the one who talked about the importance of finding out why Honey was killed. Someone said if you find out why Honey had to die that night it’s the key to solving the crime and identifying the killer. (Draw a venn diagram with Honey and Barry and add who would benefit in some way from both of their deaths.)

Here’s an older interview with Garrett and his analysis of the crime I found interesting:

 

[48OldColony]

It has been confirmed that the depiction of the bodies in the crave documentary trailer is accurate. A layperson would realize this could not have been a murder suicide. Seeing the depiction also calls to mind the sculptures. It is eerie and not a for sure link, but its on the menu.

 

[MerlinFalcon]

View attachment 424631

It has been confirmed that the depiction of the bodies in the crave documentary trailer is accurate. A layperson would realize this could not have been a murder suicide. Seeing the depiction also calls to mind the sculptures. It is eerie and not a for sure link, but its on the menu.

Confirmed by whom? This photo really looks creepy!