Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #181
I believe Ken has come to his final questions now too.
I have been answering questions here and will. But my "mission" has changed.
I know no answer will ever be found.
I want to know why.

How do you get it to the point it can be presented in the manner you suggest Windsor? Ken has been represented by and been around some pretty good lawyers. He can best answer to this and we would all like to understand why not?

In the meantime, becoming familiar with what happened and all the arguments that have been tried in the past helps us to understand the enormity of what has to be overcome now.
 
  • #182
orora,

No doubt law enforcement and to some extent the judicial system does not want to touch this case, because so many errors on the part of LE.

From a politician's point of view, there is no benefit either in digging up the past. the 'legal/criminal/judicial' failed to a great extent, and those in power now have no interest in trying to resolve issues 28 years later.

In my previous post I suggested the Attorney General be involved but I now realize that is a is not going to happen. There is no political advantage to that approach.


LE has improved their investigation procedures as a result of the lessons learned in this case. No innocent person is in jail now. The alleged assailant JP is dead. The person who molested the children prior to the abduction will have to live in personal shame.

Maybe this is the best result we can hope for at this time. Ken, you have done the best you possibly could for your sister, and should be proud of that.

MOO
 
  • #183
orora,

No doubt law enforcement and to some extent the judicial system does not want to touch this case, because so many errors on the part of LE.

From a politician's point of view, there is no benefit either in digging up the past. the 'legal/criminal/judicial' failed to a great extent, and those in power now have no interest in trying to resolve issues 28 years later.

In my previous post I suggested the Attorney General be involved but I now realize that is a is not going to happen. There is no political advantage to that approach.


LE has improved their investigation procedures as a result of the lessons learned in this case. No innocent person is in jail now. The alleged assailant JP is dead. The person who molested the children prior to the abduction will have to live in personal shame.

Maybe this is the best result we can hope for at this time. Ken, you have done the best you possibly could for your sister, and should be proud of that.

MOO

Surely this post conflicts with post well meaning advice given in # 152 a bit confusing to me.


Sometimes perpetrators are dead at on the day of the crime I am sure we can all think of an example from the last week no need for enquiry to grind to a halt as a result whether one week or 28 years later and most especially when there is official malfaisance. Everything on WS has to be interpreted including advice however well intended to stop looking or stop asking questions or stop asking for justice.

On another note when the previous thread comes back up I would like to see again the case in Eastern US Dotr linked to in relation to this case - to me the child looked an extraordinary amount like Christine. And not to splice endlessly till we have too many theories to make sense of I do not think we are there yet...... the problem I have been going over in my mind in relation to this case 1. extreme bizarre violence and 2. no similar crimes should keep us alert to one more possibility a perpetrator could be someone who crossed borders whether provincial or the U.S. border so they committed just one crime here others elsewhere. Sometimes serial killers just......drive.

I realize this is not a central theory I do not intend it to be taken as such but again, will be able to say more when I see Dotr's linked article again.

I have a question what highways nearby might see long distance truckers and what is the closest long distance trucks might come to QV or Sund.
 
  • #184
"The article quoted below was actually in regard the opposite scenario where the bodies are so well concealed they are never found. Interesting to contemplate in regard Chorley's theory, Christine was meant to be found. If so, what does that mean?" (Orora)

I will suggest a few things please correct or add. 1. Ritual element 2. Revisiting the "site" therefor geographical proximity 3.excited by thought of the shock of discovery 4. The corpse must be "pristine" uncovered 6. Obsessional. 7. A "deep" thinker reflective not necessarily super bright 8. The recovery site is a sacred place to killer. 9. if we follow Orora's linked article then not close to the family 10. I think highly organized what appears as disorganized (the injuries) probably have a purpose that is disguised by the fact the remains were skeletal . 11. Kept souvenir 12. recorder hypothetically very important the shape of the recorder its rigidity in its soft "pouch" in comparison to the vulnerability of this particularly frail child excited the perp.
13. Perp probably impotent with recorder psychologically as stand in therefore not raped can't prove this. 14. Secondary activity with the underwear which was then reunited with victim (fetishistic) 15. Very religious person. 16. Possibly later still in community in reasonable position possibility instrumental in whatever way in arranging Mont. purchase of school so again they could visit on whatever pretext. 17. Choice of Christine: frailty 48 pounds etc. exciting to perpetrator. 18. Not irrelevant this was day recorders were given out. 19. Disappointed remains not found sooner.

Ironically when they were trying to frame GPM "redrum the innocents" etc. LE may actually have been intuiting something correctly about the perpetrator of this crime. They just crudely tried to fit it around the neck of GPM instead of thinking carefully and looking carefully. Therefore:

20. Authority 🤬🤬🤬🤬-up of "redrum the innocents" remains a clue. Who dreamt this up? Someone was impressed with this idea from the film, used it against GMP. Who fed it to the jail informant?
 
  • #185
Just an FYI for anyone who cares... The old thread has been back up for some time. Search "Jessop" - and threads, and you'll find it. It's closed, but all/most of the posts and attachments are there.
 
  • #186
he FBI profile listed a number of personal characteristics, propensities and interpersonal difficulties which were associated with the person responsible for the murder of Christine Jessop. The following are some of the characteristics which, in the opinion of Douglas, were associated with the murderer: The victim sought out someone she knew and trusted to show him the recorder she had received that day; The offender was youthful — late teens, early twenties; He was having personal problems at home, school or work and was experiencing many life stresses and may have had difficulties with a girlfriend at the time of the offence; Not antisocial, but somewhat of a loner who prefers his own company; May present a façade as a macho individual, superior to others, but has poor self-esteem and lacks self-confidence; Tends to play with children who might be impressed by his antics; Drives older model vehicle, not well-maintained and cruises area in vehicle — spends time cruising in his car as a vehicle for convenience to escape; Has a poor self-image and may have a physical ailment, disability or disfigurement or facial scars and does not maintain good personal hygiene, is not well-groomed, needs a haircut or shave, wears sloppy, soiled clothing in need of repair; Occasionally drinks alcohol; Will have a criminal history of nuisance, arson, cruelty to animals, voyeurism, or break and entering; Lazy, not a high-achiever, of average intelligence, a mediocre student; offenders of this type generally do not graduate from high school, but if he did he would have gotten by with barely passing grades;

The following post-offence behaviour was indicated: May have cleaned the car’s interior after the offence; Rigid, stiff, pre-occupied or nervous with the police; Overly cooperative, participated in searches which show how concerned he is; Has difficulty sleeping".

Just to keep my amateur interest in the "shape" of the crime in (at best) the perspective it deserves here is again the FBI profile.
 
  • #187
Just an FYI for anyone who cares... The old thread has been back up for some time. Search "Jessop" - and threads, and you'll find it. It's closed, but all/most of the posts and attachments are there.
And just to add, since it's moved to page 2 now and will get buried deeper in the threads as days go by, here is the link:

Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville ON, 3 October 1984 - #1, UNSOLVED - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community


Of course, you can always find it as DPM says, by doing a forum search for "jessop".
 
  • #188
Surely this post conflicts with post well meaning advice given in # 152 a bit confusing to me.

Chorley 8, you are absolutely right, #152 and #182 are contradictory.

In #152 I was contemplating what could be done to have this case resolved. Over the next day or so I realized from the point of the judicial system and law enforcement nobody wants another rehash of who did what and what should have been done.

With the exception of a few people, nobody wants to go down that road again. Accepting the fact there is no judicial or political will to do anything further I am suggesting that life go on for those remaining.

After two trials there was a commission of inquiry. The LE agencies were told to improve their investigative systems which they have, and maybe this is Cristine's legacy, as a result of her death, law enforcement improved.

I understand that some may not agree with me, but sometimes we have to take a small win if we cannot have the big win.


MOO
 
  • #189
Just want to address a couple quick points,
As far as wanting the body to be found, Couldn't be further from the case, She was found on a side road barely travelled, 100 yds or so up a tractor path never travelled, then 30 feet or so of the path in a grove of trees and tall grass. If you ever went there you would see how isolated it was.

The FBI profile was created. It was fabrication in an effort to so closely describe Morin they wanted him to run. That is why Douglas never testified at the second trial or inquiry. He would have to admit it was fake. Yes the police sent the evidence to Quantico. But the FBI hadn't even decided if they would profile it. The det. ambushed Douglas at a conference, presented him with the tailored evidence and he gave an opinion, Then they released it falsely claiming it was from the FBI hoping it would scare Morin into running. They waited 7 days then arrested him.
 
  • #190
And if Douglas had have testified at the inquiry, it would have proven a conspiracy to convict Morin. Then the FBI reputation would have been shot, but with him ignoring the soepena .. Direct evidence of the truth was concealed. You look into it, there is still a warrant in the system for Douglas. For fail to appear, and contempt.
 
  • #191
As far as wanting the body to be found, Couldn't be further from the case, She was found on a side road barely travelled, 100 yds or so up a tractor path never travelled, then 30 feet or so of the path in a grove of trees and tall grass. If you ever went there you would see how isolated it was.

Unsure why the property owners would not have found Christine at some point. It appears they used the property on weekends from spring to fall and used the tractor path to enter and exit.

Was the trailer still on the property when you were there?
Was there a car parked on the tractor path at the point where Christine was taken into the grass/treed area?
 
  • #192
They owner had walked past on the path many times b4 she was found. Thats how hidden her body was. Yes the trailer was there. It was very hidden. Orig. the defence tried to say the body had just recently been put there. There were cedars blocking her body from the path. The police couldn't even get a car up the path the night she was found. Only a tractor could go.
 
  • #193
But she was taken deep into a wooded area.
 
  • #194
Yes, the distance into the grassy/wooded area was 30 feet by your account and others. The neighbors daughter was able to spot her from the tractor path, as I understand it.

A neighbor (or 2 neighbors) had also walked the path a number of times after the property owners (the Cull's) packed up for the season - roughly end October. Mrs Cull died on 1st November and Mr Cull returned early in December to find his trailer broken into and valuable items missing. There is no mention the neighbors saw the broken glass from the trailer break-in while they walked the path in November.

There was never any indication that Christine's killer attempted to use the trailer if he in fact took her directly to where she was found.

Try this scenario if you will -

Is it possible Christine was placed there at the end of November and the killer broke into the trailer then?
 
  • #195
Yes, the distance into the grassy/wooded area was 30 feet by your account and others. The neighbors daughter was able to spot her from the tractor path, as I understand it.

A neighbor (or 2 neighbors) had also walked the path a number of times after the property owners (the Cull's) packed up for the season - roughly end October. Mrs Cull died on 1st November and Mr Cull returned early in December to find his trailer broken into and valuable items missing. There is no mention the neighbors saw the broken glass from the trailer break-in while they walked the path in November.

There was never any indication that Christine's killer attempted to use the trailer if he in fact took her directly to where she was found.

Try this scenario if you will -

Is it possible Christine was placed there at the end of November and the killer broke into the trailer then?


They were following the dog, they had followed it off the path and the father saw what he thought was a bundle of garbage. Then stepped closer realized what it was and sent them back to the path.

The trailer was not broken into the last time the son was there in late nov. The police never tested the trailer. The son had to come back to the site to see the state. And was questioned, he stated that I believe in late oct. he walked the trailer and smelt an awful smell. There was nothing stolen as the son had closed it for the winter. Just vandalism as stones were found in the trailer. He was the first suspect.
 
  • #196
I recall the son of the woman who claimed to have heard screams being a suspect, but don't recall reading the Cull's son ever being a suspect. The Cull's son testified about throwing his cigarette butts into the bush when he visited.

Redrum gives a list of items stolen, but the author may have embellished that?
 
  • #197
I recall the son of the woman who claimed to have heard screams being a suspect, but don't recall reading the Cull's son ever being a suspect. The Cull's son testified about throwing his cigarette butts into the bush when he visited.

Redrum gives a list of items stolen, but the author may have embellished that?

It was the Culls son's trailer, He was the original suspect as it was his trailer so close. I should have been clearer, sorry. He had removed his possessions for the winter. Maybe a toaster or kettle... But nothing valuable.
About the butts, it was brought up at the first trial during that debacle. He was asked what brand he smoked, it didn't match the picture, so then a cop dropped the butt.....
:banghead:
 
  • #198
Was Fred Patterson a full time farmer? I mean not a hobby farmer or just someone with a rural property.

Are we sure that is his real name? Thanks.
 
  • #199
They had a farmhouse, I honestly don't remember if he was a farmer. Patterson is the real name.
 
  • #200
Did LE have some animus towards GPM or were they protecting another suspect (especially in that early investigatory phase)?

Why not frame young Cull if they wanted to frame someone?

Come to think of it was leaving the body there an attempt to frame him? (I mean not only by LE but possibly by the perp?) Your info about the younger Cull is important and the fact that he was an early suspect - it opens up this possibility seems to me (?).

Was your suspect JP someone that somebody in LE would want to protect?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
68
Guests online
2,606
Total visitors
2,674

Forum statistics

Threads
633,177
Messages
18,637,074
Members
243,434
Latest member
neuerthewall20
Back
Top