Canada - Christine Jessop, 9, Queensville, Ont, 3 Oct 1984 - #2 *killer identified*

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  • #241
From the earlier discussions and the procedure we went through way back then on the first thread, I know that each of these points in the timeline left by DPM is derived from a multiple of individual indicators, much more complex than the end result actually shows.

One more point I have been faced to confront is that no matter what we come up with here, there may not be any definitive smoking gun pointing at any particular suspect more so than any other. The same points and indicators could be applied to any number of suspects. Best odds may be the best we end up with.

Some of the documentation containing the exact details may be lost to us now. Logic is needed and can be problematic especially if trying to fit circumstance to any desired outcome. Facts, evidence, perceptions, all tie together to tell a story. I believe the suspects being discussed are the best there are and most likely but I personaly have not entirely ruled out something very strange and anomalous either.

So with all that in mind, I would like to begin with point 1 in the timeline again and add what Ken said about the jacket. Apparently Christine wore a pink jacket to school that morning. It was later found hung up too high for her to have placed it there. The store owner reported Christine being there about 4 pm in a blue top. When Christine's body was later found she had a blue top. First question, forget the rest of the implications for now; does this not indicate that someone taller was inside the house with Christine between the time she arrived home and before she went to the store? If so, what are the implications? What are the alternate possibilities? How can the rest of the events and time frame fit? This has been a point of divergence before. The answer here plays a role which way the timeline runs.

On October 3rd, 1984, Christine Jessop got off her school bus on Leslie Street at approximately 3:45/3:50 pm. She was most likely excited about her new acquisition – a plastic recorder (a whistle-like musical instrument) given to her that day by her school teacher. Christine picked up the mail and newspaper that had been left at the end of the driveway and went into her house. Once inside, she dropped the mail and her schoolbag. No one was home, as her brother Kenny and her mother, Janet, were out running errands. Shortly thereafter, Christine got onto her bicycle and rode south on Leslie Street to the corner store to get some gum
 
  • #242
I think DPM is hoping for a workable scenario, as in what does one think happened as a whole rather than one point.

I like DPM's suggestion of breaking the scenario down to what happened in the first 15 minutes or so. Then the next 15 to 30 minutes, if I'm getting the gist correct.
 
  • #243
A whole lot depends upon that first point to generate any plausible working scenario. It begins there. This has been a point of contention previous. No sense passing it by again and ending up the same route as before. Is this correct? Is this what we have to work into? The pitfalls are obvious.

CJ gets off the bus at approx 3:45 pm
Cj is seen at the store at approx 4:00 PM.
The bus driver etc.see a blue car in the Jessops driveway at approx 4:00 pm.
Ken and his mother return home at approx 4:10 pm.

How far is it to the store? How long a ride by bike?
 
  • #244
How far is it to the store? How long a ride by bike?

From the end of the Jessop's driveway (where it meets Leslie Street) to the front step of the cornerstore door:

0.67 km

or

0.42 mile

You can work out how long the journey would take mathematically. (I've done this a bunch of times.) You just need to estimate the average speed for a 9 year old child riding a bike. It's also a moderate downhill ride from the Jessop driveway to the store. If Christine was like most kids at the top of a hill, she would peddle fast, then coast pretty much all the way there. She could be there (at the store) in literally 2 minutes or less.
 
  • #245
CJ gets off the bus at approx 3:45 pm
Cj is seen at the store at approx 4:00 PM.
The bus driver etc.see a blue car in the Jessops driveway at approx 4:00 pm.
Ken and his mother return home at approx 4:10 pm.

I think that if you broke it down into the major steps (using your examples above) you/we should allow each step a "window of time" of a few minutes for her to complete.

Example: CJ gets off the bus at approx 3:45 pm (window: 3:43 pm to 3:53 pm) etc.

I might allocate a bigger window for the arrival time as there are some discrepancies with that one. Some say 3:45 pm, some say 3:50 pm, etc.
 
  • #246
OK, I’ll take an opening shot.. If the times are loosened slightly to account for a few unknowns, We still have the same basic sequence of events to fit in with.

Christine got off her bus at the end of her driveway at 3:45 – 3:50 pm. No one, no car was there waiting for her then. She went about her usual activities bringing in the mail / paper or whatever and prepared to ride down to the store on her bike. At some point she is interrupted by a visitor, maybe as she was leaving the driveway, maybe before. She knows the person and says her mom isn’t home and that she was just heading for the store. Some offer is made that entices Christine to accept a ride but not before changing her jacket to a sweater and grabbing her recorder. As she is doing so the visitor waits and hangs up the dropped jacket. A bus rolls by just before they leave. That places Christine and the unknown visitor there at home together at close to 4:00 pm. Ken does not get off the bus. Whether the visitor knew beforehand that Christine was or would be totally alone that day, he did now. How much the visitor knew may have dictated the timing. They depart with some haste and the bike is either knocked over then or in earlier hastiness and left as is for later.

Feigning nonchalance, the visitor drives to, arrives at and parks behind the store a minute or so later and Christine goes in to get her gum at approximately 4:00 pm. Nice fella... At some point whether totally intentional or not beforehand, the person looks around and realizes that he now has a female child with him that no one knows of and he is overwhelmed by the deviant sickness inside himself when presented with the perfect opportunity. Christine unknowingly returns to the car and in short order realizes something was wrong. Whether that meant the driver was not leaving in the right direction as per the ruse used on her or she had caught him masturbating upon her return, or whatever, Christine knew something wasn't right and that she had to get out.

The bus driver who noted the car in the Jessop driveway did not see Christine riding her bike either towards or back from the store that day. In fact, there seems to be no sightings whatsoever of Christine on her bike.

By all indication I can find, someone taller was in the Jessop house with Christine after school before she went to the store. If she was at the store, it seems more likely she was driven imo. That places some vehicle in the vicinity of the store that day. The detective involved in the case from way back believed there was something to the scenario involving a vehicle in the store area. We may not be privy to all of why. It was merely noted there was no sign of struggle or reports of anything unusual. Whatever happened apparently appeared perfectly normal, no one was being forced into a vehicle or grabbed in a noticeable manner. No yelling and screaming in the parking lot. Whatever happened, the last she was seen was right there.

Now, it gets very tricky how to place anything in context. Christine had just left the store at approximately 4:00 - 4:05 pm and originally there was a story of a couple witnessing a child struggling with a man in a blue car right at the intersection coming from the direction right behind the store. Reports say it was that exact same time, 4:05 pm. Both necessary elements are present, a child and a blue car as seen in the Jessop driveway. The reported behaviour of the child was unusual as would be exhibited by a child who was being abducted. Ken says she would have fought back.

But… we have Ken saying all those reports are false, the “Horwood” sighting of the struggling child was not at the store but many miles away at another intersection. However, the inquiry documents are quite detailed and explicitly state that the sighting was at the same store corner. Ken has explained that to be incorrect but it does not sit well yet. If true, a huge hoax was perpetrated upon the inquiry and the entire enquiry process made a joke, a sham. We have all noted that this was one of the key points that should have been investigated. That car was followed to an exact named neighborhood. There are no more reports of a struggling child afterwards. The neighborhood was not checked for that car. Christine’s injuries may indicate and support actions of someone initially shutting her up but not killing her. The inquiry dwelt on that original sighting in some detail. Why wasn’t this followed up on at the time, why do we find this strange discrepancy now? Ken names the odd man out segment… I have trouble reconciling anything beyond this juncture. This is ground zero for everything going wrong with the investigation, the inquiry, the media, and the source of perceptions such as Ken’s that exist to this day. For Ken I have to add, even if that Horwood sighting was at an intersection many miles away, (of which I have serious reservations) Christine did not walk there alone, she was taken from home and the same vehicle is likely involved from start to finish.. imo.

Earlier theories had to either discount the store and the Horwood sightings entirely or explain how Christine got off the bus, got the mail etc changed her clothes, got her bike, left again, got to the store, parked, went in, bought candy, and then returned from the store all in under ten minutes. That while never once being seen by anyone other than the store owner. I believe a slight readjustment incorporating the car fits better and bridges the gap to keep everything including the store witnesses and testimony in play. The bike doesn't require getting returned home in some unexplainable fashion either this way.

For me the answers lay in the dark shadows of this vehicle. I believe it to be the best fit with time and circumstance. I personally have trouble getting beyond it. Perhaps in time, perhaps with other theories laid out, perhaps with the odd man out segment, perhaps a lot of things. Christine was never seen since leaving the store.. You can’t track her any further. A similar blue car was seen at several junctures before and after her abduction and can be tracked, possibly matched to suspects, tied in with motives, evidence, etc.. I believe this vehicle to be the linch pin… Understanding it, placing it in context, not so easy.. Hamstrung by “odd man out” cops speaking off the record, perceptions fostered and skewed for who knows what or why, all taking place in a backdrop of the most extreme example of Police and judicial obstruction evidenced in the country.

Maybe I am the odd man out here, I can’t accept that the inquiry was so flawed and that such a hoax, a fraud could be perpetrated under such extreme scrutiny. The Kaufman report still says the Horwood sighting was at the store intersection.

Nothing personal Ken.. My mind revolts at the prospect our countries inquiry process could allow that to take place and not be corrected by now if not true. I’ll have to let others take over from this point on.. I hope you will understand why.. .
 
  • #247
I very much enjoyed your scenario orora - it's a tough task to try and put all of it together.

There is one problem though, and you can check this in the KR and RR. The Horwood's did not see the blue car behind or at the store. The Horwood's were at the same corner as the store. They claim they saw a blue car on the other side of Leslie Street, facing them and wanting to turn left onto Leslie Street. The Horwood's were turning right, and claim to have let the blue car have the right of way.

If the blue car was where the Horwood's said it was, that would require Christine to cross the street to enter the store. Then cross the street to return to the blue car.

Sorry, but we can't let people get the wrong idea where the blue car was reported seen at the store intersection.
 
  • #248
Thats true W, it needs clarification. thank you
It is a tough thing to put it all together as you well know better than most anyone. The timing is very tight no matter which way you go with it. I believe you where the car was spotted.

If I were to break those last minutes down a little more into two stages, the first stage would just be taking Cj to the store in the car before she was aware there was any problem. She was willing innocent comfortable and compliant at least up until leaving the store and returning to the car. It's just me envisioning the car parked at the store at this point. There was not yet any problem at this point. imo No one noticed anything. I have no proof, it's just my envisioned scenario to get her to the store and comply with the time constraints and fulfil the circumstance required by the excercise.

For the second stage I have no set conditions. One possibility is that the car pulls out from the store and heads somewhere across the road for some reason maybe just for more privacy. Read in here what ever you wish, I do not wish to dwell on detail regarding this point.

Something happens to more than alert Christine to the danger. The man has crossed a line and she knows she is in trouble. She begins struggling, she wants out, the driver reacts, it is broad daylight and he has to get away from the area. Which brings him back to the intersection where he is spotted by the Horwoods with a struggling child. It may have all happened very quickly. I believe whatever happened to Christine to start her struggling, happened very close to the intersection where the Horwood sighting took place both in time and distance. The abductor may have turned in the direction he did just because Christine was visibly struggling and he wanted to get further away from her house. Maybe he knew of or had a spot down there on Fieldstone Lane? Maybe he just pulled in to stop Christine from struggling, or maybe just to ditch his tail.

What was across the street from the store in the direction he was coming from? Is the feed mill in the direction the car in the Horwood sighting was coming from? What else is down that way? Private roads and farm trails? Any other cause, reason or motivation that would place him on that road where the Horwoods sighting supposedly took place? Sometimes when crazy kicks in, crazy just does as crazy does wherever crazy ends up. Fastest shortest straightest from store = ?. Too sexually aroused to go any further? Recalling the condition of Chritine's body, this seemed a very sick person with uncontrolable urges. Have to take that into account. He may not be acting as we would envision.

I do not want to discount the Horwoods and have made the sighting an upper level priority point to try and fit in to the circumstance. Getting Christine to the store with a person in a blue car was stage one, from there its just a hundred feet or so across the street and a uturn away from matching the conditions of the Horwood sighting at the exact time and location.

No doubt it is just speculation to suggest how or why the car ended up there but it is too close both in distance and timing not to be entertained. (if the sighting actually took place there)

I view it as one of the best pieces of information in the entire case. I don't want to let it go easily. It is difficult to pursue any further though, even here..

This is just one way of putting all the same pieces together that we all have to work with. There may be something to it, there may not..

I may be the Odd man out here but I have not been able to get past this juncture yet.. I'll let you folks carry on without belabouring the point any further.
 
  • #249
I have haven't had any luck finding the Odd man out fifth estate segment. I can find references to it, I found a site claiming it was available through them. It turned out a scam to get you to subscribe but once you do, you find that episode was not even in their archives.

Does any one have any personal recollections of the content or know of any way to find that? CBC didn't even respond to my quiery.. (not yet any way)

The story and timeline I posted to account for the first 15 minutes is justifiable and demonstable on facts and evidence alone. imo Not too much speculation or putting in suppositions is required to follow it along as far as the store. Timing and evidence is in agreement.

Seeing as no one seems to have much to say right now and no links to the odd man out segment appear forth coming.. i'll go on and explain my views on this a little more.. You can't track Christine past the store but the car may be another matter. Based on the Kaufman inquiry documentation on the Horwood sighting until proven otherwise, I refer to the Horwood sighting here as being on Leslie and queensvile side road across from the store.. .. Caviat being, of course everything would change with new evidence and proof of new facts.. as it should.

For now suppose; Stage two isn't quite the same as stage one, it requires some speculation to make up a link and bridge the gap between where stage one ends at the store and the Horworth sighting begins. As W said, it is a problem. The store is on one side of the street and the Horworth sighting claimed the car was on the other side of the street. But the car was facing back towards the store and the timing is tight. How do you reconcile that? There is no set specific way to place the car on that side of the street. Anyone can make up anything and suggest any motive as a space filler but it should seem to fit in somehow..

I believe that the blue car seen in Christine's driveway earlier on was the same blue car later described by the Horwoods across from the store. For motive I could speculate that there was a semi private spot known to the perp suitable for his intended pupose located just across the street. Is there any evidence to support that supposition other than the car was coming from that direction? It was a blue car. It contained a struggling child. It closely followed the time when Christine was last seen at the store. Is that enough to make the jump without actual proof?

At one time in regard another point, I googled the area and came across what appears to be a driveway that was once part of a longer side road that had later been altered and blocked off at some point. Its only a few hundred feet down queensville side road from the store intersection on the same side the Horwoods claimed they saw the car. Note even now the area going into the heavy tree growth would have hidden that portion of the trail from sight. Note the curvature of the areas terrain and foliage where two ends of a now defunct trail can still be seen. Possible explanation? The perp took Christine to that spot and began molesting her. Someone came along interrupting him or he was startled by something or someone walking a dog by or ? The perp had to move fast, his victim was now well aware his intentions and was struggling for her life. ??? Is that what the Horwoods came across?

if some explanation here becomes plausable and acceptable to tie the events together, you have a means to track not just by vehicle description, but by suspect age and description, personality traits, familiarity with the area, reasons and motives for the direction of travel etc etc.. And... was there not a blue car seen at some time near where Christine's remains were found?
 
  • #250
On the blue car - there are no printed reports from any person investigating or researching this case that advise anyone saw a blue car in the Jessop driveway on 3 October 1984 - not in the KR and not in RR. If the elusive 'Odd Man Out' video shows up, it needs to be viewed for content.

If the Horwoods's saw a blue car at the store intersection at 4:00 - 4:05 pm, that puts Christine leaving the store before 4:00 pm in your scenario. The perp or Christine had to cross the street, pull into this secluded spot, an assault begins and is interrupted, the car pulls away onto Queensville Sideroad to turn left onto Leslie Street. All unseen except for the claimed sighting at the intersection and Christine in the store.

Hmmmm - difficult imo.
 
  • #251
re: blue car- from K. Jessop, the bus driver...?

re: timing difficulties-
If the Horwoods's saw a blue car at the store intersection at 4:00 - 4:05 pm, that puts Christine leaving the store before 4:00 pm in your scenario. The perp or Christine had to cross the street, pull into this secluded spot, an assault begins and is interrupted, the car pulls away onto Queensville Sideroad to turn left onto Leslie Street. All unseen except for the claimed sighting at the intersection and Christine in the store

Nothing was seen by anyone other than Christine in the store near 4 pm, Horwoods at the corner across the street near 4:05 pm. One follows the other, times may be a little tight as in 3:57 and 4:08 respectively. That leaves ten minutes plus. The spot would have to be very close, the attack would have to be almost immediate. Which fits with fbi reports of how long usually elapsed from abduction to the deed. Lke dragging a rape victim into the bushes.

Granted tight but, as you say W- It is
All unseen except for the claimed sighting at the intersection and Christine in the store

Thats only a hundred feet apart with maybe 10 minutes seperation.

My proposed scenario for stage two is just a speculative attempt to tie the two sightings together. If the Horwood sighting was at this corner, I believe it was Christine in that car. Too coincidental to discount. imo I base everything else around that and the speculation has to fit the circumstance, we can't change or discount the circumstance to fit with speculative elements.

I'll keep the Horwoods sighting #1 myself until demonstrated otherwise. Even though I am not sure how to bridge the gap to get Christine from the store to the car on the other side of the street in the alloted time. Feel free to take a shot..

If there were a ten minute window allowed, I believe the little spot in the trees and back is possible in that amount of time. jmo The child was struggling as if something had just happened very close by and the perp had not yet had time to take control of the situation and quiet her. The drive alone barring traffic holdups is 30 seconds each way. Eight minutes is long enough time for an assault to take place. No one is going to drive around an abducted girls neighborhood for long with her screaming and struggling like that. He'd have pulled in somewhere to stop it as fast as he could. imo
 
  • #252
If the perp was trying to flee with Christine after being interrupted opposite the store, wouldn't he have been better off going west on Queensville Sideroad where there would have been little to no traffic?

Having to stop and wait for traffic in order to turn left, back towards where he just took Christine from, seems like he would be asking to get caught, especially if JJ and JK were to drive by at that time.

KJ - does orora's scenario fit with what you envision happened after your information that the bus driver and 2 students saw a blue car in your driveway?
 
  • #253
All good questions W, except the one for Kenny in regard this part. The Horwood sighting was no where near the store.. iko.

If I were to answer from the same speculative stance in the proposed scenario-

If the perp was trying to flee with Christine after being interrupted opposite the store, wouldn't he have been better off going west on Queensville Sideroad where there would have been little to no traffic?

Having to stop and wait for traffic in order to turn left, back towards where he just took Christine from, seems like he would be asking to get caught, especially if JJ and JK were to drive by at that time.


Why not go west on Queensville rd? Possibilities, he lived down that way, worked down that way? His wife and kids may be somewhere along that road? Kids just getting dropped off school bus walking along that route? Born and raised around there? well known by vehicle in that area for some reason? Fire department is down that way?

There would have to be a reason.. no doubt.. That reason may be an identifier in itself..

re:
Having to stop and wait for traffic in order to turn left, back towards where he just took Christine from, seems like he would be asking to get caught, especially if JJ and JK were to drive by at that time.

This has been a point of some confusion for me in the past. The google map I look at has north at the top, s at the bottom, e is to the r, w is to the left, same as yours?

Not having the benefit of having been there and Just to make sure I'm getting this straight, could you fill in the blanks one more time. Had trouble posting the map I use.

1) The jessop house was on the same side of Leslie street as the store, Christine did not have to cross Leslie to get to the store?

2) The store was on the east side of Leslie as were the Jessops?

3) The Jessops were east or west of the store?

4) The Horwood sighting was on Qsr on the west side of Leslie?

5) So taking a left off Queensville sideroad at the intersection across from the store on the south side of Leslie st. intersection facing the store on the north side takes you away from or towards the Jessop's house?

Sorry, map I scanned has a different orientation than google, just clarifying.
 
  • #254
With all due respect orora, you have known the answers to those questions for years as I have seen you post the correct locations.

Can't help you.
 
  • #255
Well how about for the sake our many readers some new to the thread who may want to follow along. We all know you to like to keep things clear and the facts pristine.

I believe the Horwoods sighting has been discussed and discounted before for some reason. Wasn't sure how all that happened.

OK, trying once again to post a common map link.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=queensville+ontario&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=np&hnear=Queensville,+York+Regional+Municipality,+Ontario,+Canada&t=m&z=15
 
  • #256
I read through some of the old thread seeking my spot of confusion. W.. you once wrote the same thing as here but slightly differently. I get it now, back then you were refering to the ludicrousy of a scenario involving the Horwoods that had the abduction take place at the Jessops then end up by the store facing the other way then return back past the Jessops house again. You were writing in context that the vehicle travel made no sense to be headed back past the Jessop home but back then you wrote in regard the vehicle carrying on headed towards the Sunderland area. Many other routes were available for that purpose. The ludicrous part had as much if not more to do with using this route to get to a location accessable by many other routes without the associated risk.

I believe the whole thing about the Horwoods needs to be rethought on the basis the vehicle turned exactly where the Horwoods said it did. Onto Fieldstone Lane and for what must have been a very important reason.
 
  • #257
W.-
Having to stop and wait for traffic in order to turn left, back towards where he just took Christine from, seems like he would be asking to get caught, especially if JJ and JK were to drive by at that time.

As said the perp must have had some strong motive and good reason to be doing what he did.. You don't wait to make a left if a right turn is available in a situation like that when you have no definitive destination in mind. The same applies to why not go west down Queensville sideroad? Instead the question should be, why did he want to turn left and get to Fieldstone Lane so badly? If it was Christine in the Horwood sighting and that vehicle had to wait out traffic to make a left turn and it was heading in the direction of the Jessop house, it was deliberate, very deliberate, not even optional at that point. The same can be said of the second left a few blocks further up onto Fieldstone Lane. This street led to the intended destination that warranted the risk of waiting out the first left and heading in that direction past the Jessop's house. IMO

Both lefts from the starting point are in effect circling the same block. If you look in from the queensville sideroad and off the back side of Fieldstone Lane you see the same field. It is accesable from either point, near where the Horwoods first saw the vehicle on Queensville and where they last saw it heading onto Fieldstone Lane. It is heavily treed at the Leslie St. end and there are indications of old tractor paths etc in that field along with two large ponds. If anyone is in search of diatoms there may be a link. All just off the rear of the Ravenshoe church off Fieldstone Lane. This is where the Horwoods sighting ends.

Using the Queensville map, start from the large masonic emblem prominently displayed in the rear yard off the Ravenshoe church and zoom in to look around out back into the field and you can make out traces of old paths originating up near that church and meandering down into the trees. There may have been a hiding spot back there back then. The Horwoods not only saw a child struggling for her life in that vehicle wanting to be noticed, but followed it into this neighborhood and reported that it had all but disappeared. As it would in this scenario.
 
  • #258
There is no church of any kind in that residential subdivision.
 
  • #259
Click on map link 3 posts back, click on red arrow, zoom in, google displays Ravenshoe United church on the screen pointing to a property at the back row off Fieldstone. Not that it matters either way, I just gave it as a reference point for a possible access point to the field and ponds to the rear. The same field and ponds accessable from Queensville sideroad. The circumstance of the Horwood sighting suggests the driver sought something there.

What could have been found if the Horwoods sighting had been pursued? What can be found even now? If new FBI behavioural analysis stats and criteria are entertained, there is possibly a great deal of information still available. If the Horwoods sighting was of Christine and it really occured on Fieldstone Lane as the Kaufman inquiry report states, it is here where the final sighting of Christine led.

I'll conclude my two 15 minute time stages here. I know Ken and others have differing opinions and I welcome them to provide as much detail timing and connective reasoning as here into any other scenario they envision. I can't help but wonder if someone had deliberately duped people at the time possibly including 5th estate reporters into believing the Horwood sighting occured elsewhere. As a result, all of what could have resulted from an investigation of that sighting has been deflected, even to this day. The truth of that sighting needs to be confirmed by verifiable documentation IMO.

IMO the answers are still waiting for someone to look deeper into the Horwood sighting. In the end after countless pages and threads of discussion this is all we really have to base anything on, the rest is all speculation at this point. Perhaps someone very familiar with and having a working knowledge of the affairs of the property and pond off Leslie and Queensville should be made part of the suspect profile as much as the Culls property. Who knew how and where to disappear a vehicle so quickly and completely out of sight in the Fieldstone Lane neighborhood? Perhaps a profile would merge with another already being discussed here if the Horwood sighting were to be viewed in context as part of a whole. The timing and circumstance is possible IMO. It cannot be dismissed just due our inability to comprehend how nor that it does not fit with any other speculative theory.
It is as W, says-

All unseen except for the claimed sighting at the intersection and Christine in the store.
 
  • #260
On the blue car - there are no printed reports from any person investigating or researching this case that advise anyone saw a blue car in the Jessop driveway on 3 October 1984 - not in the KR and not in RR. If the elusive 'Odd Man Out' video shows up, it needs to be viewed for content.

If the Horwoods's saw a blue car at the store intersection at 4:00 - 4:05 pm, that puts Christine leaving the store before 4:00 pm in your scenario. The perp or Christine had to cross the street, pull into this secluded spot, an assault begins and is interrupted, the car pulls away onto Queensville Sideroad to turn left onto Leslie Street. All unseen except for the claimed sighting at the intersection and Christine in the store.

Hmmmm - difficult imo.

As i have addressed this SO MANY TIMES BEFORE The car was seen on the east side of leslie on the side of the road facing north... The witnessed gave statements... the next day... They were called down to the second trial but were not called as witnesses. Theyre statements were never disclosed to the defence... The defence team interviewed them all. Do NOT STATE AND LIE THAT THERE IS NO PRINTED REPORTS!!!!!! All you have to do is order the transcipts of the disclosure hearing b4 the second trial... THATS WHY THERE WAS A FREAKIN DISCLOSURE HEARING... Durham police hid any statements that shed a doubt on morins guilt..... The Horwoods stated they saw what they did At RAVENSHOE AND LESLIE.... THE CBC STATED THIS IN ODD MAN OUT!!!!!! They saw a man struggling with a child as the car turned right on RAVENSHOE!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for the "suspicious comment" about if it wasn't that day... After me addressing this, WHY IS IT BROUGHT UP AGAIN. WE BELIEVED THIS BECAUSE WE BELIEVED SHE KNEW HER ATTACKER. THAT HE KNEW MY DAD WAS GONE, THAT BECAUSE IF WE GOT HOME B4 HIS OPPORTUNITY THAT DAY, HE WOULD HAVE TRIED THE NEXT... HE KNEW OUR SCHEDULE. KNEW MY MOM WORKED IN RICHMOND HILL....

And now all the same crap is brought up again by our resident super sleuth. This is the first login for me since I answered your questions. With all the facts I have given, I take time away, and it all went for ****. Every point I made I can back up... Not with a book, not with rumor. With facts, court transcripts, files.... Even if i scanned them and posted, I would be questioned on the validity.

This is what bothers me. It is like a slap in the face. I came here to be with people wanting to help. Any help is good help.

But I have answered the questions. Proven who I am. Addressed every misconception about this case. My motives have been darkened... I supposedly have an agenda and it has changed and I am losing sympathy. I got accused of that of my facebook page.

My agenda is...
1. Correct the misconceptions. (Or bluntly.. expose the lies stated) so people can get the actual facts.

2. Get people to stand up and demand answers....

The case will never be solved. I have already in depth explained why.

I answered the questions. I have actual PROOF to back it up.....
It doesn't come from a sensationalistic book. It comes from boring court transcripts. I have even been questioned about those. They take up about 40 legal boxes. I paid $1700 in 1998 for them. The disclosure hearing is where everything is.... I paid for them. Even if I invited everyone here to view them, someone would dispute.

So here I sit... As I have said before. I see more misconceptions spread about things i have clarified so many times by the same person.. My advice is to her once again to get the transcripts!!!! Or just get the odd man out vid....

Even my own words here have been changed to further her agenda.
Remember this person claimed to be my mothers friend, went to a meeting with yorks chief of police... Then when confronted, admitted it wasn't true. I can provide that as well.

You all can decide. I frankly am done. I have asked repeatedly to get off this minutia. And ask the real question... Why. JP may not be... But he is very likely... The kid in the cemetary who was violent... and 3 others in odd man out...
Why they won't test the suspects son...
I am tired of correcting the same points brought up by the same person....
But a full page of wrong "FACTS" after what I subjected myself to is enough.

I thank the people that truly care here. That is why I stay.
But if you want me to leave I will.

Thank You
Ken Jessop
 
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