Canada - Eight bodies found in a marsh, near US border, Tsi Snaihne, Akwesasne, Quebec, 30 March 2023 *POIs sought*

[MarziPanda]

Exactly! Go there legally and stay illegally. What is the barrier to entering the USA from Canada for vacation?

RSBM
US border agents would likely have stopped them. If you're a Canadian resident with a passport that isn't Canadian, especially if you're from an eastern European, Asian or South American country, you have a very good chance of being turned away at the border. They're very cautious. They know that Indian and Romanian people have often tried to cross the border to stay in the US. You would have to have a lot of proof that you were just going for a holiday.

I'm from the UK and a family friend of mine is Mexican. She's lived in the UK for 15 years, has a job, permanent residence, married to a Brit, has a British daughter. Yet whenever she visits her family in Mexico, via the US (as it's much cheaper than a direct flight to Mexico) she gets totally grilled. Every time she's been, she's stopped at immigration. Even though she has a connecting flight to Mexico. It's the same when she returns, even though she has a connecting flight to the UK. She has to carry around all of her proof of her life in the UK and they've been very close a few times to denying her entry into the US.

Regarding the UK/EU discussion going on, the EU workers did all the jobs that the Brits didn't want to do. Once they left there were massive labour shortages in some industries, especially agriculture. Many EU doctors and nurses also left. Now the NHS is having huge recruitment drives in India for nurses. So if you're a doctor or nurse you can pretty much get a job anywhere in the world, but most people aren't. Which I guess leads to tragedies like this.

 

[dotr]

Indian police identify family who died crossing illegally into U.S. from Akwesasne

The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.

www.thestar.com

April 3 2023
''There is still no sign of a missing Akwesasne man whose boat was found where the bodies of eight migrants were pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week.

Akwesasne Mohawk Police have been looking for 30-year-old Casey Oakes since Thursday, whom officers were searching for when the first bodies were discovered.

Oakes was last seen Wednesday night operating a boat that was found next to the migrants’ bodies, but police have made no direct connections between Oakes and the deaths.''

 

[otto]

Indian police identify family who died crossing illegally into U.S. from Akwesasne

The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.

www.thestar.com

April 3 2023
''There is still no sign of a missing Akwesasne man whose boat was found where the bodies of eight migrants were pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week.

Akwesasne Mohawk Police have been looking for 30-year-old Casey Oakes since Thursday, whom officers were searching for when the first bodies were discovered.

Oakes was last seen Wednesday night operating a boat that was found next to the migrants’ bodies, but police have made no direct connections between Oakes and the deaths.''

The longer he is not found, the more likely that he is hiding. It's also more likely that someone is helping to hide him.

Although he could be prosecuted for transporting people illegally between two countries, is he also liable for the deaths of his passengers? A boat accident during a storm at night is more like an "act of God" than intent to cause harm.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

The longer he is not found, the more likely that he is hiding. It's also more likely that someone is helping to hide him.

Although he could be prosecuted for transporting people illegally between two countries, is he also liable for the deaths of his passengers? A boat accident during a storm at night is more like an "act of God" than intent to cause harm.

I'm sure there are charges similar to negligent homicide with unsafe vehicle/overloaded boat. Deaths that occurred during the commission of a crime type charges.

 

[iamshadow21]

I'm sure there are charges similar to negligent homicide with unsafe vehicle/overloaded boat. Deaths that occurred during the commission of a crime type charges.

According to the article:

Oakes was last seen Wednesday night operating a boat that was found next to the migrants’ bodies, but police have made no direct connections between Oakes and the deaths.

Unless we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume what I thought until these comments was the situation - that they were looking for Oakes and found these other victims by accident in the process.

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

According to the article:

Oakes was last seen Wednesday night operating a boat that was found next to the migrants’ bodies, but police have made no direct connections between Oakes and the deaths.

Unless we hear otherwise, I'm going to assume what I thought until these comments was the situation - that they were looking for Oakes and found these other victims by accident in the process.

MOO

His boat was found next to the bodies. I was speculating, in response to another post, on the existence of laws that exist in Canada that could apply to the situation of illegally transporting persons to another country, in an unsafe manner/boat, resulting in death.

 

[otto]

I'm sure there are charges similar to negligent homicide with unsafe vehicle/overloaded boat. Deaths that occurred during the commission of a crime type charges.

There were 6 adults and two children (aged one and two), plus the boat owner, on the boat. Does anyone know the size of the boat?

 

[Betty P]

Eight dead in Akwesasne were trying to cross border, police say

The bodies from two families were found in a marsh near the borders of Quebec, Ontario and New York. One man is still missing.

montrealgazette.com

''The Journal de Montréal, citing anonymous police sources, said migrants who were trying to clandestinely to enter the United States from Canada were among the dead.

One of the six bodies was a child with a Canadian passport, police chief Shawn Dulude told CBC News.

The Tsi Snaihne district where the bodies were found lies on the southern shore of the St. Lawrence River in Quebec, east of Akwesasne’s Kana:takon district and the southern portion of the community in the U.S.

The coast guard had responded to an AMPS request earlier on Thursday to help locate a missing man, Casey Oakes, 30. Based on how the statement about the deceased people was written, Oakes has not been identified as one of them and is still considered missing.

AMPS said further updates would be provided as the investigation continues.''

UPDATE: Akwesasne police searching for missing man

Casey Oakes, 30, has not been seen since Wednesday evening.

www.standard-freeholder.com

Why would migrants allowed to live legally in Canada want to come to the US? Canada is a much better place to live, JMO. Much better quality of life, services, health care, etc.

 

[musicaljoke]

Why would migrants allowed to live legally in Canada want to come to the US? Canada is a much better place to live, JMO. Much better quality of life, services, health care, etc.

A couple of really strong draws to migrating to a new community are family and place of worship. I've worked with newcomers to Canada, and they often long to be with their extended family, whether they are in a different province, or in the US. Sometimes it makes very little difference whether their loved ones are in Manitoba or Montana, It's all the same to them.

I have never seen anyone wanting to migrate for reasons of greed. It could happen, but I think it's pretty rare, and likely a cruel stereotype.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

I can't find the news conference where I believe someone stated that the boat was too small for that many people. Even if the boat was big enough, it capsized and the weather was bad. Other articles call it a small lightweight blue boat. see below

Here is an article quoting the missing man's uncle.

"Oakes said his nephew made this kind of trip often – once every week or every other week – carrying migrants from Canada to the U.S. for money",

BONOKOSKI: Cornwall Island – the epicentre for moving human cargo and contraband tobacco

"During the summer, high-powered, stripped-down john boats race the waters around the St. Lawrence River’s Cornwall Island smuggling cut-rag tobacco into Quebec in the dead of night."

tnc.news

 

[musicaljoke]

There were 6 adults and two children (aged one and two), plus the boat owner, on the boat. Does anyone know the size of the boat?

It was too small.

“The east wind around here creates a lot of waves, 5ft tall, maybe taller,” Jackson said. He said he believed Oakes’s boat was less than 6m (20ft) long.

Crossing the river on a little boat with many people on board, “that called for disaster”, he said.

‘Heartbreaking’: eight bodies recovered from waters at US-Canada border

Two more people found on Friday as authorities says dozens of Indian and Romanian migrants have been crossing through Mohawk territory

www.theguardian.com

 

[otto]

Why would migrants allowed to live legally in Canada want to come to the US? Canada is a much better place to live, JMO. Much better quality of life, services, health care, etc.

That's exactly my question. From reading several articles, I understand that the Romanian family was in Canada for 2-3 years. The children were born in Canada (anchor babies?). The family has relatives in Florida and the plan was to join them.

I wonder whether it was too easy for them to live in Canada, so they viewed illegal entry into countries as a legitimate option. Perhaps if anchor baby passports were eliminated, this would happen less often.

It sounds like people who know Casey Oakes knew that he was transporting people illegally into the USA via the Akwesasne reserve. Those people should have known (based on numerous illegal immigrant drownings around the world) that it was just a matter of time until it happened with Casey. They should have spoken up sooner to prevent this from happening. People of the Mohawk Nation at Akwesasne knew what he was doing and did not stop it.

"But the man’s great-uncle Joe Oakes told the Globe and Mail his nephew frequently made the crossing, bringing migrants from Canada into the United States.

“They know the river, but he probably just couldn’t handle it that night,” he said.

Poor weather often creates large swells on the unruly river, which police say was the case last week when the boat carrying eight migrants is believed to have capsized."​

The Guardian

 

[otto]

A couple of really strong draws to migrating to a new community are family and place of worship. I've worked with newcomers to Canada, and they often long to be with their extended family, whether they are in a different province, or in the US. Sometimes it makes very little difference whether their loved ones are in Manitoba or Montana, It's all the same to them.

I have never seen anyone wanting to migrate for reasons of greed. It could happen, but I think it's pretty rare, and likely a cruel stereotype.

When the Romanian and Indian families came to Canada, they chose to leave family behind. Canada is filled with people who left family behind to secure a better future for their children. If they really need to be with family, and cannot legally enter Canada or the USA, they should visit together in Romania or India.

I wonder how much they paid per person to illegally enter the USA through the Indian reserve.

A quick search shows that a round trip adult ticket to Bucharest is $1100.

 

[iulia]

Police sources in India identify 3 people found dead in St. Lawrence River near Akwesasne

Police sources in India have provided the names of three family members who were among eight people who died after trying to cross the St. Lawrence River Thursday into the United States near Akwesasne — a community that straddles Quebec, Ontario and New York state. A source identified one woman...

ca.news.yahoo.com

CBC News has learned that Florin Iordache had his asylum application to Canada refused and was set to be deported.

Public federal documents show that he had applied for a pre-removal risk assessment (PRRA) — one of the safeguards in place to ensure people in need of protection are not removed — which had also been denied.

Documents show he was seeking a judicial review of the refusal for his PRRA.

"The pre-removal risk assessment is basically the last chance to persuade an immigration officer that the person has a continuing risk if returned to their country," said immigration lawyer Max Berger in an interview with CBC News.

Berger said a person's removal is put on hold until there's a decision in the PRRA. Once the PRRA is refused, then the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is able to remove or deport them.

"In this case, it's possible that CBSA was starting to make removal arrangements for this family or perhaps, they themselves saw the writing on the wall and thought they had better options in America," he said.



Take this with a grain of salt as the source is a Romanian tabloid, but it seems like this was at least their fourth attempt to cross illegally into the US. Supposedly the date of deportation was March 31.

Familia de români care a murit încercând să treacă granița ilegal în SUA urma să fie deportată din Canada în aceeași zi

Povestea familiei formate din Florin și Cristina Iordache şi cei doi copii ai lor care au murit în Canada, în timp ce încercau să treacă granița în SUA.

www.libertatea.ro

 

[otto]

I can't find the news conference where I believe someone stated that the boat was too small for that many people. Even if the boat was big enough, it capsized and the weather was bad. Other articles call it a small lightweight blue boat. see below

Here is an article quoting the missing man's uncle.

"Oakes said his nephew made this kind of trip often – once every week or every other week – carrying migrants from Canada to the U.S. for money",

BONOKOSKI: Cornwall Island – the epicentre for moving human cargo and contraband tobacco

"During the summer, high-powered, stripped-down john boats race the waters around the St. Lawrence River’s Cornwall Island smuggling cut-rag tobacco into Quebec in the dead of night."

tnc.news

Thank you!
The article mentions "jon boats."

link

 

[dotr]

April 3 2023

MISSING PERSON - UPDATE: April 2, 2023

The Akwesasne Mohawk Police Service (AMPS) is continuing to seek the public’s assistance in locating missing person Casey Oakes, age 30 of Akwesasne. He was last seen boarding a boat on Thursday, March 30, 2023.

www.cornwallseawaynews.com

''The local waterways are continuing to be searched. Police estimate that there are eight kilometres of waterway to search. Searchers include members from Akwesasne Mohawk Police marine unit, Royal Canadian Mounted Police Marine unit, Ontario Provincial Police air support, divers from the Sûreté du Quebec and the Hogansburg Akwesasne Volunteer Fire Department.

During the search, police located and spoke to a local male inside a cabin on St. Regis Island, Akwesasne, QC. At this time, police cannot connect the male to be related to our investigation. A vessel matching the description as being operated by Casey Oakes was located near the location of eight deceased persons (see previous releases).. It was removed by police and placed in secure storage for further processing. Clothing articles have also been located that have been identified as belonging to Casey Oakes.''

 

[otto]

Police sources in India identify 3 people found dead in St. Lawrence River near Akwesasne

Police sources in India have provided the names of three family members who were among eight people who died after trying to cross the St. Lawrence River Thursday into the United States near Akwesasne — a community that straddles Quebec, Ontario and New York state. A source identified one woman...

ca.news.yahoo.com

CBC News has learned that Florin Iordache had his asylum application to Canada refused and was set to be deported.

Public federal documents show that he had applied for a pre-removal risk assessment (PRRA) — one of the safeguards in place to ensure people in need of protection are not removed — which had also been denied.

Documents show he was seeking a judicial review of the refusal for his PRRA.

"The pre-removal risk assessment is basically the last chance to persuade an immigration officer that the person has a continuing risk if returned to their country," said immigration lawyer Max Berger in an interview with CBC News.

Berger said a person's removal is put on hold until there's a decision in the PRRA. Once the PRRA is refused, then the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) is able to remove or deport them.

"In this case, it's possible that CBSA was starting to make removal arrangements for this family or perhaps, they themselves saw the writing on the wall and thought they had better options in America," he said.



Take this with a grain of salt as the source is a Romanian tabloid, but it seems like this was at least their fourth attempt to cross illegally into the US. Supposedly the date of deportation was March 31.

Familia de români care a murit încercând să treacă granița ilegal în SUA urma să fie deportată din Canada în aceeași zi

Povestea familiei formate din Florin și Cristina Iordache şi cei doi copii ai lor care au murit în Canada, în timp ce încercau să treacă granița în SUA.

www.libertatea.ro

The article states that they were in Canada for 1.5 years, and the 3 year old was born in Canada. Someone's facts are mixed up, OR the 3 year old was born in Canada, the family left Canada and then returned 1.5 years ago for the second child's birth. If that's the case, then these drownings make a strong case for terminating anchor-baby passports. People should be prevented from sneaking in and/or out of Canada for the sole purpose of obtaining taxpayer provided health care during childbirth.

Regarding denial of Canadian citizenship to the parents, did they apply to emigrate to Canada for legitimate reasons, or did they sneak into Canada too?

"CBC News spoke to a relative in Orlando who said Florin and his family had been in Canada for about a year and a half and were living in Toronto.
...

Florin and Cristina had two children, a one-year-old boy and an almost three-year-old girl, born in Canada."​

link

 

[otto]

<modsnip - quoted post was off topic>
According to the relatives of the Romanian family, they had been in Canada for 1.5 years. They must have been in Canada 3-4 years ago as well for the birth of their daughter. There were two benefits to illegally entering Canada, perhaps more than once. The children were guaranteed Canadian citizenship, and childbirth costs were free. That's a lot of incentive for entering and leaving Canada illegally.

At the same time, it seems that people traffickers are a well-known problem on the Akwesasne reserve. I hope the residents of Akwesasne think more carefully about protecting illegal people-traffickers going forward.

 

[dotr]

rbbm. Simply tragic.

Indian police identify family who died crossing illegally into U.S. from Akwesasne

The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.

www.thestar.com

'The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.'

''Achal Tyagi, superintendent of police for the city of Mehsana, in the western state of Gujarat, told The Canadian Press that the four deceased Indians were members of the Chaudhari family. They included the father, Praveenbhai Chaudhari, 50; mother, Dakshaben, 45; son, Meet, 20; and 23-year-old daughter, Vidhi.''

''Praveenbhai was a farmer, Tyagi said, adding that the family was from the Mehsana district, which has a population of about 1.8 million people. Indian police have opened an investigation and met with Chaudhari family members Monday, he said.

“They were in Canada for the last two months, and they had gone from here on a Canada (tourist) visa,” he said in an interview from Gujarat.

“But what transpired in Canada and why they were travelling to the U.S. is not exactly known.”
.....

''The Iordache family had been living in the Toronto area. Father Emanuel Țencaliuc, the priest at the All Saints Romanian Orthodox Church, in Scarborough, said Monday the four victims were included in a prayer during a weekend service commemorating those who had died.''
Țencaliuc said the couple’s two children were baptized at the church in June 2022. “A young family, quiet, shy,” the priest said in an interview Monday. “It seems like they wanted to go to church and belong to the community.”

''A friend of Florin Iordache said Monday the family had been facing deportation from Canada. The friend, who did not want to be named over fears of angering immigration authorities, said Iordache had been frantically seeking a lawyer in the days before the tragedy after being denied permission to stay in the country.''

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/akwesasne-update-sources-name-indian-family-1.6799214?cmp=rss

Police sources in India have identified Vidhiben Pravinkumar Chaudhari, 24, Pravinbhai Veljibhai Chaudhari, 50, and Mitkumar Pravinbhai Chaudhari, 20. The identity of the fourth Indian national is unconfirmed at this time. (Submitted by police source in India)

Florin Iordache, 28, is pictured with his two children. The bodies of Florin, his two children and their mother, 28-year-old Cristina (Monalisa) Zenaida Iordache, were recovered from the St. Lawrence River this week. (Submitted by the family

 

[otto]

rbbm. Simply tragic.

Indian police identify family who died crossing illegally into U.S. from Akwesasne

The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.

www.thestar.com

'The four Indian nationals whose bodies were among eight pulled from the St. Lawrence River last week had been travelling in Canada on a tourist visa, a police official from their home state said Monday.'

''Achal Tyagi, superintendent of police for the city of Mehsana, in the western state of Gujarat, told The Canadian Press that the four deceased Indians were members of the Chaudhari family. They included the father, Praveenbhai Chaudhari, 50; mother, Dakshaben, 45; son, Meet, 20; and 23-year-old daughter, Vidhi.''

''Praveenbhai was a farmer, Tyagi said, adding that the family was from the Mehsana district, which has a population of about 1.8 million people. Indian police have opened an investigation and met with Chaudhari family members Monday, he said.

“They were in Canada for the last two months, and they had gone from here on a Canada (tourist) visa,” he said in an interview from Gujarat.

“But what transpired in Canada and why they were travelling to the U.S. is not exactly known.”
.....

''The Iordache family had been living in the Toronto area. Father Emanuel Țencaliuc, the priest at the All Saints Romanian Orthodox Church, in Scarborough, said Monday the four victims were included in a prayer during a weekend service commemorating those who had died.''
Țencaliuc said the couple’s two children were baptized at the church in June 2022. “A young family, quiet, shy,” the priest said in an interview Monday. “It seems like they wanted to go to church and belong to the community.”

''A friend of Florin Iordache said Monday the family had been facing deportation from Canada. The friend, who did not want to be named over fears of angering immigration authorities, said Iordache had been frantically seeking a lawyer in the days before the tragedy after being denied permission to stay in the country.''

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/akwesasne-update-sources-name-indian-family-1.6799214?cmp=rss

View attachment 412790
Police sources in India have identified Vidhiben Pravinkumar Chaudhari, 24, Pravinbhai Veljibhai Chaudhari, 50, and Mitkumar Pravinbhai Chaudhari, 20. The identity of the fourth Indian national is unconfirmed at this time. (Submitted by police source in India)

View attachment 412791
Florin Iordache, 28, is pictured with his two children. The bodies of Florin, his two children and their mother, 28-year-old Cristina (Monalisa) Zenaida Iordache, were recovered from the St. Lawrence River this week. (Submitted by the family

The biggest red flag in that article is that people smugglers are going to continue doing what they're doing because it is easy money for some residences at the Akwesasne Indian reserve.

"Authorities have said the territory's unique geography makes it a popular spot for human smugglers, with police making 48 separate interceptions this year. Most of those who try to enter the U.S. through the area are of Indian and Romanian descent.

Lezore — who referred to human smuggling in the area as a "judicial nightmare" — says despite years of seeing the same types of deaths occur on the river, he doesn't believe anything will change.

"I think it's going to go on the way it is," he said. "People are still going to be coming across trying to get that money to bring people across."

CBC