CANADA Canada - Elizabeth Bain, 22, Scarborough Ont, 19 June 1990 #1

[eyesonly]

Fwiw:

MP tennis instructor, sighting of Liz at picnic table pre-hypnosis imo is a sighting with some validity. The other instructors hadn't seen Liz but that's reasonable because they were busy. MP was at the fountain and the picnic tables were basically right there and she knew Liz.
Her timing for the 19th could be pegged down in regards to when she had tennis classes, was it every night or only certain nights. Also if she described what Liz was wearing too.

I think the guy who saw the girl cross the bridge in the valley has some validity too, as per the night, the time, the area and description.

I think we've gotten to use to all the csi shows, and reality shows where cameras pick up everything and we tend not to make any reasonable judgments anymore without video or DNA evidence. Jmo

As for the identification of the blood in the car. They could only determine that it was a female offspring of mr and mrs Bain. They had no known DNA from Liz to compare it to.

 

[eyesonly]

Elizabeth Bain knew killer: Police: [FIN Edition]
John Duncanson TORONTO STAR. Toronto Star [Toronto, Ont] 15 Nov 1990: A1.

Sources told The Star that blood found in the vehicle contained brain matter in such quantity that Bain could not have survived..

Gotta love when you can print whatever you want and say "sources" told you, but you don't have to reveal your "sources" in order to prove or disprove the
validity of the information.

 

[Woodland]

The article quoted from 15 Nov 1990 in the Toronto Star was printed again on 16 Nov 1990, page A2, with the part about brain matter deleted. That was the only change.

Wondering who fed that to the reporter.

The beaten on the head was concluded to be fact since they found brain matter in the pool of blood. This part was undisputed

This quote is from page 17, post #409 - apparently not.

 

[eyesonly]

I don't see anything that confirms EB was alive on the afternoon of 19 June 1990 - unless a video camera captured her making the ATM transaction at about 3:45 pm. If there was no video, I'm inclined to rewind prior to 3:45 pm. That's just me.

Mrs Bain says she saw her daughter leave the house around 4-430pm, on the 19th, if no other witnesses, we can rely on her own mothers eyewitness account of the last time she saw her daughter liz.

then we can rely on the description of what liz was wearing from her mothers account, and look for other witness accounts that include such a description.

i believe liz did go to the valley park. maybe she did check the tennis schedule, or maybe that was just to tell her mom in a way of where she was going without telling her the exact reason. if liz were going to meet someone other than her boyfriend in that area, she's not going to tell mom that part of it, but letting her know the area she is going to be in.

she told her mom she's going to the tennis area in the valley, her car is parked in the valley lot, MP tennis instructor sees her at the court area in the clothing description as per her mothers account, a gentleman sees a young lady who he describes as liz to a tee, crossing a bridge passing him.

all these together lend credence to the reasonable conclusion that liz was down at the valley park that early evening. imo

 

[Woodland]

After reading about missing pages from EB's diary in many articles, decided to follow it backwards to try and find a beginning. These missing pages were used against RB at trial in 1992 - he was accused of stealing them in order to cover anything incriminating about the relationship, should there be something there to find.

Toronto Star, 17 May 2008 -

In March 2004, nine months before Baltovich's second-degree murder conviction was overturned by the Ontario Court of Appeal, his defence team discovered 458 loose original pages from Elizabeth Bain's diary in police investigative files.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2008/05/17/new_twist_in_baltovich_acquittal.html


From the TS archives, 6 Feb 1992, page A8, during the trial, statement from the Crown -

There will be evidence Baltovich stole pages from Elizabeth's diary, tried to withhold evidence from the police and asked witnesses not to co-operate with the investigation, he said.


So twelve years after his conviction, these 'incriminating' missing pages are found in police files. So how and when did they get there? The first mention in the Star of missing diary pages comes 11 days after EB was missing. 11 days and it's in the papers?

From the TS archives, 30 June 1990, page A13 -

But several pages of the loose-leaf notebook where she wrote about her life and jotted down intimate thoughts may be missing, friends say.

The missing pages may reveal a souring love relationship, or her state of mind the day the 22-year-old psychology and sociology student disappeared, police said yesterday.


From the same article -

Although friends suspect some of her diary entries are missing, police say the notes were loose, so they can't be positive some are misssing.

"We haven't confirmed that ourselves," said Detective Sergeant Steve Reesor of the homicide squad. "But there might be (some missing)."


In the same article LE talk about what may be in the 'missing pages' then contradict themselves with they haven't confirmed there are any missing pages.

Well they were missing, so who took the pages 10 days or less following her disappearance, and when did they come into the possession of LE? Due to the route these pages eventually took, I can only see that EB's family or a friend initially took them.

I'm not asking myself why a family or friend would do this, I'm asking myself how did the family or friend know, 10 days or less after EB was missing, that LE would not find anything else incriminating against him? 10 days or less after EB's disappearance, the family or friend is taking steps to set RB up, knowing? LE would need a boost in order to point the finger at his guilt?

I can understand a family or friend might try to set someone up after one year, maybe two years when an investigation is stalled, but 10 days or less says to me people knew nothing would be found to say RB was guilty of anything.

I'm flabbergasted and can only repeat, I don't think EB was at the park that day. I hope EB's actions earlier that day, and the day before were memorialized somewhere - for further scrutiny.

 

[eyesonly]

From the TS archives, 30 June 1990, page A13 -

But several pages of the loose-leaf notebook where she wrote about her life and jotted down intimate thoughts may be missing, friends say.

The missing pages may reveal a souring love relationship, or her state of mind the day the 22-year-old psychology and sociology student disappeared, police said yesterday.


From the same article -

Although friends suspect some of her diary entries are missing, police say the notes were loose, so they can't be positive some are misssing.

"We haven't confirmed that ourselves," said Detective Sergeant Steve Reesor of the homicide squad. "But there might be (some missing)."


In the same article LE talk about what may be in the 'missing pages' then contradict themselves with they haven't confirmed there are any missing pages.

Well they were missing, so who took the pages 10 days or less following her disappearance, and when did they come into the possession of LE? Due to the route these pages eventually took, I can only see that EB's family or a friend initially took them.

I'm not asking myself why a family or friend would do this, I'm asking myself how did the family or friend know, 10 days or less after EB was missing, that LE would not find anything else incriminating against him? 10 days or less after EB's disappearance, the family or friend is taking steps to set RB up, knowing? LE would need a boost in order to point the finger at his guilt?

I can understand a family or friend might try to set someone up after one year, maybe two years when an investigation is stalled, but 10 days or less says to me people knew nothing would be found to say RB was guilty of anything.

I'm flabbergasted and can only repeat, I don't think EB was at the park that day. I hope EB's actions earlier that day, and the day before were memorialized somewhere - for further scrutiny.

RB did take some diary pages home with him to read, but he returned them to mr. bain. when detectives asked RB where they were he said he gave them to MR. Bain but mr. bain said he didn't have them.

RB was the prime and only suspect the day they found the car. So anything after that the police used and abused to make him look guilty in anyway they could to try to get him to slip up in their minds.

as stated above the missing pages were found in the police files, more proof of the lies and deceits of LE to convict RB no matter what the cost.

woodland as for your belief that liz was not in the valley park that early evening, i am definitely keeping an open mind to that scenario. I will stay with the fact that her mother saw her leave the house, she says 4-430pm. however i'm not sure what that is based on, usually people aren't looking always at the time on everything, maybe it was closer to 5pm.
but for now, i am good with 4-430pm unless some information arises that definitively changes that.

 

[Woodland]

Got a little news on mom's timing as well.

TS archives, 6 Feb 1992, page A8 - Mom's trial testimony -

She left her Scarboro Ave. home to go to the campus recreation centre around 3 p.m. on June 19 and never returned, her mother said.

She being EB. Have read time and time again, mom said it was 4:00 pm - so what's with the testimony timing being an hour earlier? To accommodate the librarian saying RB was questioning her on a CD or whatever signed out by EB? How the heck would RB know this at that time? What happened to the ATM transaction at 3:45 pm?

EB is in way to many places in way to short a time for me (and now all over the place) and when the stories change, and pretty much every story did, gotta file them under 'pfffft.' That's just me though.

Btw, the key chain is described in the TS on 29 June 1990, page A2.

The blue-and-white sponge key chain shaped like an anchor is the one item police say is missing from the 22-year-old Scarborough woman's silver 1981 Toyota Tercel.

Don't like the timing on the tennis instructor, and the info she thought she had on the same day in the same article, but don't want to give her any more air time. Same file - jmo.

 

[Snively]

Woodland, I'm not sure how aware you are of the area that is in question. It's a 6 minute drive from the Bain's to the campus and 3 minutes from the campus to the parking lot and tennis courts. The ATM in question is a 1 minute drive from her residence. There is plenty of time to get around. Nothing strange. Just strictly facts of time and distance.

The ATM, her mother and MP a friend for 10 years. All good, solid sightings. She was at the park.

 

[Woodland]

The timing on leaving home changed - so don't care what the distance is from one point to another. Jmo.

Maybe you could tell us about the 'undisputed' brain matter in the back of the Tercel? The Toronto Star walked away from that and never mentioned it again - how does that work? Not only that, noticed much of the trial story is relegated to their pages A28, 29 - were they uninterested or po'd? I'm thinking po'd.

 

[eyesonly]

Woodland, I'm not sure how aware you are of the area that is in question. It's a 6 minute drive from the Bain's to the campus and 3 minutes from the campus to the parking lot and tennis courts. The ATM in question is a 1 minute drive from her residence. There is plenty of time to get around. Nothing strange. Just strictly facts of time and distance.

The ATM, her mother and MP a friend for 10 years. All good, solid sightings. She was at the park.

Snively, I believe the ATM Liz used was the one at morningside and Lawrence, about 5-10mins from her house depending on traffic.

 

[Woodland]

Can we hear more on the confirmation EB made an ATM transaction herself on the afternoon of 19 June 1990? It may exist somewhere, WS is not one of those places.

Can we start with the time?

 

[Snively]

You are correct on the distance from the ATM to her residence being 10 minutes. Just a typo on my part. Forgot the 0.

You know the area in question and I wasn't sure if Woodland understood how close all the locations mentioned really are.

I don't recall the ATM information exactly but I can't find any question at either trial that the defence or Crown disputed the time or if it was Liz making the withdrawal.

 

[Woodland]

Do not see mention of a bank transaction by the Crown or Defence pinpointing her whereabouts at a particular time. Pretty important for the timeline imo.

Finding this info as reliable as brain matter in the back of EB's Tercel - ie didn't happen.

 

[Snively]

The ATM would have an exact time the transaction was made. Always have. Always will.

 

[Woodland]

Great - and that date and time was? According to who?

 

[Snively]

The police would ask the bank for the information. Standard in a missing persons would be to see if there were any transactions on the persons account. The time and date stamp would be according to the banks records coincided with the ATM.

I'm not sure if the transaction was made at a bank branch or if the ATM had a camera or if the building had a camera. If it was a branch of a bank, you can be assured there would have been cameras at the entrance.

I haven't seen the bank report myself but it seems to be accurate at 3:45PM on June 19, 1990.

Considering neither the Crown nor defence questioned this it sounds exactly right.

 

[Woodland]

Sorry Snively, you are avoiding any direct info so don't believe it.

 

[Snively]

How am I avoiding any direct info when it's clear the time was accounted for from bank records? Feel free to spend a few thousand on court transcripts if that makes you feel better. Tell me how I'm avoiding "direct info"? The bank gave the information to the police. It's the banks records.

As for the trial being pushed to the back pages of the first section there were a few things going on at the time. Rodney King. Clinton/Flowers. Mike Tyson. The Winter Olympics. Somalia. Yugoslavia. A US election. Roberta Bondar. The Cold War ending. A coup attempt in Venezuela. The EU. Algeria. Ukraine/Russia. Lebanon. Jeffrey Dahmer. Iraq. South Africa.

 

[eyesonly]

LE checked her bank records and it showed the withdrawal and at what ATM machine and the time of 345pm June 19th.
Now obviously this would come from LE and as Snively said no one ever contested it for a second so we have to assume the defence seen the record report as well as the appeal team and private investigator.

As for video of the transaction, something tells me I remember maybe they asked but at that time the videos weren't held very long maybe looped out every day or so.
Don't quote me on that

 

[Woodland]

Thanks eyesonly - there was a transaction from her account at 3:45 pm and assumed to be her. Definitely a shame there is no, or thought to be no video - could be why not a big deal was made of it. Nothing to be done by LE one way or the other.

The story here in previous posts is, EB went home after making that transaction - but according to the Star, her mom ended up testifying EB left home at 3:00 pm never to return.