Found Deceased Canada - Genevieve Cormier, 19, St John, NB, 29 Sept 2013 - #2

[foofusmagee]

thanks truth, for all the feed back....
so, not so much of a joggers path, but a very "local" path? more like a short cut to the neighborhood? like, i would really only think of that path if i lived near there or worked near there? it seems like something, (the path) i would feel safe on, as if i knew "everybody" walked this short cut......a quiet way to avoid the busy streets, no?

 

[Truth Prevails]

thanks truth, for all the feed back....
so, not so much of a joggers path, but a very "local" path? more like a short cut to the neighborhood? like, i would really only think of that path if i lived near there or worked near there? it seems like something, (the path) i would feel safe on, as if i knew "everybody" walked this short cut......a quiet way to avoid the busy streets, no?

BBM – that’s a good way to describe it.

The path shows so clear in parts that I find myself wondering if it is not parts of very old roads that once existed along the river, but I can’t find confirmation of that.

If you take ‘everybody’ as your neighborhood friends and family members, I suspect that is about right; but I hope the use of ‘everybody’ doesn’t signify to anyone that the path is often busy with people, or heavily traveled.

Had I known about it and had occasion to walk uptown from the west side, I would have taken that path myself—in the daylight hours—without a second thought.

We know Genevieve took the bus uptown on Saturday evening, so I feel that she felt that way, too.

That’s what shocks me so much about this case. Genevieve was doing everything right; enjoying her life; getting home after Saturday night to get her laundry done; acknowledging Monday morning was near.

How many thousands of people were doing basically the exact same thing as Genevieve? Who wouldn’t have expected to make it home?

If she wasn’t safe—and obviously she was not—who is safe?

To keep this comment from getting too long, I’ll add some pictures in another comment to try to show why she would have used the short cut--indeed, why anyone walking would have used that short cut.

 

[Truth Prevails]

http://binged.it/1cyLBTK

This is intended as an overview of the area, to show the possible routes home for Genevieve. The link should take you to a blow-up of the screen capture above--without the call outs--which offers a clearer view.

If you find the BoAz Restaurant first, and remember that the last confirmed sighting of Genevieve was just beyond that point--heading toward Lancaster Ave.--that should help with orientation.

Then look in the top left, and you should see the callout for Simm's Corner--if Gen had continued on Bridge Street after crossing the Reversing Falls Bridge, this is where she would have had to walk to; taking a left onto Lancaster Ave.

She would have had to continue down Lancaster Avenue, all the way to Prince Street; and take another left onto Prince St.

Now, another alternate route--besides her path--also exists.

Once past the BoAz, Gen could have continued on Riverview Avenue, West, until it intersects with Lancaster Avenue--below Simm's Corner. She would have needed to take a left here, and still continue on until she came to the corner of Lancaster Avenue and Prince Street.

It's hard to get an estimate on how much time the path would save because Google won't acknowledge the path, but it looks to me like you would save yourself a good 10 or 15 minutes; and the visible parts of the path appear to offer good walking.

 

[Truth Prevails]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tourismnewbrunswick/4700134155/player/749723e461

http://binged.it/1cS0BqR


I came across the first picture above, and I couldn't resist adding it.

It's a good shot, and really captures how the area often looks. It's so common to see the fog drifting in like that, and the colors are good.

But what I think it captures best is the fierceness of the river--it's dropping steeply and roaring towards its mouth. The Bay of Fundy is around its next bend.

Even when you drive over the bridge in your vehicle, you are aware of the power. If you stop to look, your common sense will kick in and you immediately know you need to exercise caution. You would not so much as consider leaning on a loose railing.

I used the red arrows to mark Genevieve's path as she headed home from the uptown area.

The second screen shot is the same little map I have been using ad nauseam to show the path--but at least I rotated it to try to show how it would continue from the picture.

There should have been nothing to prevent Genna from coming out on Riverview Drive.

Except human evil.

I see some fairly tall apartments on Douglas Avenue, too. I wonder what kind of view the upper units would have of the path area?

 

[margarita25]

You soooooo rock Truth!!!

 

[OldSteve]

Thanks Truth Prevails for the excellent job you did above ^^ with maps and callouts! Really helps me understand and picture in my mind the path Gen took. Wow - that water is fierce! - and her purse stayed on her!??!

 

[Truth Prevails]

Thanks Truth Prevails for the excellent job you did above ^^ with maps and callouts! Really helps me understand and picture in my mind the path Gen took. Wow - that water is fierce! - and her purse stayed on her!??!

BBM - Yeppers, that is what they are telling us.

I Googled hair strength, and healthy human hair is quite strong. Apparently, one strand would be as strong as copper wire of the same diameter; plus it has elastic properties which enables it to stretch as much as 50% when wet.

Also, it can withstand a slow and steady force for some time.

Source: http://www.keratin.com/aa/aa016.shtml

Genevieve had long, beautiful hair that she worse loose that Sunday. I suppose as it floated out from her shoulders, her purse could have become entangled in it.

It's still so much to swallow.

How does a smart, healthy girl manage to fall into the Saint John River from a pathway that she has frequented regularly; and float ashore some 34 days later with her purse--containing her ID--ensnared by her hair.

Why wouldn't the purse have caught on a rock or something on the way down the embankment? Or get caught between rocks on the bottom of the river.

Oh, and it just so happens the same thing happened to another lady six months before, on the same path.

Yeonhee's hair was short, though; and they won't tell us if her backpack was still with her.

 

[Sandpiper]

thanks truth, for all the feed back....
so, not so much of a joggers path, but a very "local" path? more like a short cut to the neighborhood? like, i would really only think of that path if i lived near there or worked near there? it seems like something, (the path) i would feel safe on, as if i knew "everybody" walked this short cut......a quiet way to avoid the busy streets, no?

It is a local path at least for young people. I have spoken about the path to some of them. If you live lower west the path is an excellent short cut to the Lancaster Mall. It actually does cut off quite a bit of distance. I was not aware of the path but my brother and a cousin used this path as kids-they are both in their 50's so it has been there for a while, although both say it was not as wide as it is now. So it is very familiar and would seem very safe to the folks using it.

 

[Sandpiper]

Baring accident-say Gen back tracked to the dock at the Boaz, I don't think she went into the water at the Falls. Really think she was picked up and taken else where.This whole area is nothing but coastline endless spots to put someone in water. Also how long is a long time in water? Even as short a week no DNA-any evidence of pre mortem injury apart from rope around the neck or a bullet hard to detect. Water is really the perfect coverup.

 

[Truth Prevails]

It is a local path at least for young people. I have spoken about the path to some of them. If you live lower west the path is an excellent short cut to the Lancaster Mall. It actually does cut off quite a bit of distance. I was not aware of the path but my brother and a cousin used this path as kids-they are both in their 50's so it has been there for a while, although both say it was not as wide as it is now. So it is very familiar and would seem very safe to the folks using it.

Thank you so much for this, Sandpiper!

It never dawned on me about using it to get to the mall. (I lived off Havelock, so I used to go there from the other direction.)

That's interesting about it seeming wider now, too. I wonder if that means it has recently become popular with people using some type of all terrain vehicle.

Maybe a group of them frequenting the area?

I noticed on some Google maps that they seem to have Riverview Avenue, West, blocked off to through traffic. (On other maps I don't see it.)

You can actually see what appears to be tire tracks driving aroung the road block--so I don't think it is too effective, if it is there.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Baring accident-say Gen back tracked to the dock at the Boaz, I don't think she went into the water at the Falls. Really think she was picked up and taken else where.This whole area is nothing but coastline endless spots to put someone in water. Also how long is a long time in water? Even as short a week no DNA-any evidence of pre mortem injury apart from rope around the neck or a bullet hard to detect. Water is really the perfect coverup.

BBM - I can't see her forgetting about her laundry, and the other things she wanted to get done to suddenly turn around and go down those stairs; but, one never knows.

For anyone not familiar with the area, you can see the dock and the paths behind the BoAz in this screen shot.

From the last known sighting, we know Gen was clearly past the stairs leading down to it; and was heading towards the path that she was know to use.

Also, I note much of this path has side railings and is quite touristy.

http://binged.it/1cV2nrb

Good point about how long is a long time in the water, too!

I agree that water is a perfect way to destroy evidence, but I wonder if they actually bothered with any kind of forensic autopsy, or just did some kind of routine, basic autopsy.

They certainly wouldn't find anything with that, imo.

 

[Sandpiper]

Thank you so much for this, Sandpiper!

It never dawned on me about using it to get to the mall. (I lived off Havelock, so I used to go there from the other direction.)

That's interesting about it seeming wider now, too. I wonder if that means it has recently become popular with people using some type of all terrain vehicle.

Maybe a group of them frequenting the area?

I noticed on some Google maps that they seem to have Riverview Avenue, West, blocked off to through traffic. (On other maps I don't see it.)

You can actually see what appears to be tire tracks driving aroung the road block--so I don't think it is too effective, if it is there.

Yes Riverview Ave West was blocked off for some time to thro traffic. Don't know why except people were probably using it as a short cut to Lancaster Ave, I must admit I've used it myself of late. Did notice the tire tracks think they are actually tracks from trucks more than all terrain vehicles. Don't know if there is all terrain use on the path.

 

[OldSteve]

Respectfully snipped:

How does a smart, healthy girl manage to fall into the Saint John River from a pathway that she has frequented regularly

Yes! that is the question. Something just doesn't make sense... young, healthy, with plans... heading away from the water...

 

[Sandpiper]

I think Gen just has some kind of basic autopsy. Minds were already made up from the beginning. I mean The kid hadn't even been found and they were calling it sucide.

 

[OldSteve]

Something I was reading:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

Something else that ran thru my mind.... my wife likes telling the story of her grandmother who lived in Paterson NJ, a high crime area... without a car, her grandmother had to take buses, and one time while waiting for one, a young punk decided to try an take her purse. The old gal would not let go of it, despite being dragged for some distance!

Could Gen's death be something simple like that - someone trying to rob her and she, rather than giving up, clung to it and made sure it would stay with her while she ran toward the water, only to slip and fall into it?... okay, far fetched... shows how little we (I) really know...

 

[Truth Prevails]

Yes Riverview Ave West was blocked off for some time to thro traffic. Don't know why except people were probably using it as a short cut to Lancaster Ave, I must admit I've used it myself of late. Did notice the tire tracks think they are actually tracks from trucks more than all terrain vehicles. Don't know if there is all terrain use on the path.

If the traffic at Simm's Corner hasn't changed, I would use it myself!

That makes sense about the tire marks being from trucks, as they did seem large enough.

I think Gen just has some kind of basic autopsy. Minds were already made up from the beginning. I mean The kid hadn't even been found and they were calling it sucide.

I agree about the autopsy being the most basic version they could get by with; and for the same reasons.

On October 2, Henderson said: Quote: "Normally there’s history of depression, it might even be a relationship issue, but in this case, there is no history so that makes this one different," he said."

On November 3--one day after Genevieve's remains were found--there was this: Quote: "But Sgt. Jay Henderson said foul play hasn't been ruled out." The last paragraph of that article states that the autopsy results were expected the next day.

On November 4--First there is a video released with Henderson saying the initial autopsy results indicate suicide; then we have the almost immediate update--coming after the family spoke out--stating that they are awaiting the pathologist's report to: Quote: ". . . conclude the investigation," Saint John Police Force Sgt. Jay Henderson told CBC News on Monday.

"We want to rule out any type of trauma that's been done to the body. And also we're awaiting on the toxicology report," he said.

Police will provide an update once they receive the medical report from the Saint John Regional Hospital's pathology department, Henderson said.

It is unclear when that will be, he said."

We are still waiting.

Looking back for at least the hundredth time, I now believe that it is Genevieve's purse that they are using to support their suicide or accidental death theory.

That eats at me because that purse didn't stay across Genevieve's shoulder--the way she wore it in life--on it's own accord.

If it was not tied on her somehow, then it snagged in her hair or clothing.

This could just as easy have happened if someone threw Genevieve in the river, and then threw her purse in right after. It is proof of nothing, imo.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Respectfully snipped:


Yes! that is the question. Something just doesn't make sense... young, healthy, with plans... heading away from the water...

It's so frustrating to think that another young vibrant life is lost; and it will be called another suicide or accidental death because . . . ? Because, why? Why has this become the common thing?

Something I was reading:

http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/serial-murder

Something else that ran thru my mind.... my wife likes telling the story of her grandmother who lived in Paterson NJ, a high crime area... without a car, her grandmother had to take buses, and one time while waiting for one, a young punk decided to try an take her purse. The old gal would not let go of it, despite being dragged for some distance!

Could Gen's death be something simple like that - someone trying to rob her and she, rather than giving up, clung to it and made sure it would stay with her while she ran toward the water, only to slip and fall into it?... okay, far fetched... shows how little we (I) really know...

Bless your wife's grandmother! I hope I would have that courage if someone tried to take mine.

You know, they at least make it out to us as if purse snatching is not that common in this area. I haven't heard of one in a while, but maybe they don't report them anymore.

I'm thinking if he was in a hurry for money, it would be a pretty frustrating wait for a women to walk by with a purse. I'm not sure if the area would average one a day.

Other than that, it makes more sense to me that she fell because she was chased than that she just somehow fell for no apparent reason. (And as she was not that close to the water, I don't see how she would have ended up in the water.)

They better still be careful, though; because if they have someone running around on the path chasing women, he might come back and actually catch one. I don't know what worse he could do if he caught one, but I wouldn't like to find out, either.

And then, of course, there is Shelby. As far as we know, she never left the uptown area.

Thanks for that interesting link, too. If there really is something going on like what I'm thinking, we wouldn't have the money or the resources for that.

I'm not sure that the denial we are hearing is not directly related to those reasons--providing, of course, that there is denial.

:cow:

 

[Darcyline]

I am curious as to what her family is thinking/feeling. I know probably very little besides overwhelming grief and I cannot imagine being in their position. But, if others are implying this was suicide or accidental, I wonder if they trust that.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I am curious as to what her family is thinking/feeling. I know probably very little besides overwhelming grief and I cannot imagine being in their position. But, if others are implying this was suicide or accidental, I wonder if they trust that.

Genevieve's sister has commented here as a "verified insider."

The bolding in the second paragraph has been done by me.

Hello, I should introduce myself. I am Katie, Genevieve's sister.

To answer a couple of questions right off, before I respond to individual posts a little more in depth, we (her family) absolutely do not believe Genna killed herself. We have no reason to believe that, nor do the police. In fact, police have told us they have no reason to suspect either foul play or suicide, and that they are still treating this as a criminal investigation. We are still waiting on the full autopsy results, also (e.g. toxicology).

As to how she was identified, Genna still had her passport on her when she was discovered. Gen was wearing an over-the-shoulder bag, and the bag was still with her, with her passport inside (she had her passport because that is what she used as identification). She did have a tattoo (a blackbird, with "Take these broken wings and learn to fly") on her shoulder and a scarification tattoo (a peace sign carved into her calf), but we were not told if either of those were still identifiable... we were simply told she was in the water a long time.

My prayers go out to Genevieve's family now and forever. My thoughts have hardly left them during this season, as I'm sure it's one of the most difficult they will ever face.

 

[OldSteve]

Sadly, this is where cases like this go cold. No media outcry for continued investigation and explanation; and while in the ideal world there might be a maverick detective who continues to work looking for something that's been missed needed to solve the mystery - in real life, other things take priority...