GUILTY Canada - Loretta Saunders, 26, Halifax, NS, 13 February 2014 #2

[otto]

Perhaps the blood tests that Yalcin referred to were for paternity not just pregnancy and that is why there was some confusion over the pregnancy length as well ?? He likely didn't want to mention that part.

That makes a lot of sense. The live in boyfriend said that Loretta told him that she was pregnant, but he clearly said that she still had to have blood tests. He did not confirm that she was pregnant. Are blood tests always used to confirm pregnancy?

Loretta had traveled to Turkey with her live in boyfriend for vacation. Was she still spending time with the former boyfriend, a 38 year old man with whom she had a drug connection? Is it possible that the 38 year old is aboriginal and the family would rather have her remembered for a relationship with an aboriginal than a student from Turkey? Was her 2.5 year relationship with the student from Turkey only going to last as long as he was a student in Canada?

Something else is at play here. Did Loretta meet Blake and Victoria through a marijuana connection?

 

[otto]

I'm wondering if the murder was a result of a rent money dispute. I do believe that she went to her apartment, which she shared with Victoria and Blake, to get money. My question is now about whether that was rent money. Was she asking Victoria and Blake to pay the entire rent on the apartment while she still had complete access to the apartment? Were Blake and Victoria dealing drugs to pay for their frequent travels across the country?

 

[PonderingNS]

Just for clarification Facebook lists this Robbie person as a female.

 

[otto]

It seems to me that marijuana trafficking and marijuana use is the strongest link we've found between Loretta and her suspected murderers.

 

[otto]

Just for clarification Facebook lists this Robbie person as a female.

Clearly that is a mistake.

"RCMP officers swooped in on a home in Hopedale late Monday night, arresting a man and a woman and seizing a quantity of marijuana and money.

The two individuals arrested- 20 year-old Loretta Saunders and 38 year-old Robbie Fillier were both from Happy Valley-Goose Bay and recently moved to Hopedale."

http://www.thelabradorian.ca/News/2...0/Drug-seizure-in-Hopedale-nets-two-arrests/1

 

[PonderingNS]

Clearly that is a mistake.

"RCMP officers swooped in on a home in Hopedale late Monday night, arresting a man and a woman and seizing a quantity of marijuana and money.

The two individuals arrested- 20 year-old Loretta Saunders and 38 year-old Robbie Fillier were both from Happy Valley-Goose Bay and recently moved to Hopedale."

http://www.thelabradorian.ca/News/2...0/Drug-seizure-in-Hopedale-nets-two-arrests/1

Ok they must have changed their sex to female on Facebook to perhaps keep some attention away however they have pics of LS on their wall and friends post under the pics that they are thinking of " them" when LS was missing. It certainly seems as it they still had a relationship from the comments .

 

[appleeye]

I think it's just that we can't find much on him.

They are both charged with premeditated murder and I don't have any doubts that those charges are justified.

They may not have had the "plan" in place long--premeditation charges don't require evidence of weeks or days of planning.

Loretta had been trying to contact them; so they knew she needed her rent money.

They may have been aware that Loretta was going to drop by on the 13th.

That would have given them ample opportunity.

1st degree murder in Canada isn't reserved for premeditated murder...

Any of the below qualifies...

First degree was planned and deliberate
was contracted
was committed against an identified peace officer
while committing or attempting to commit the hijacking of an aircraft
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault with a weapon
while committing or attempting to commit aggravated sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping and forcible confinement
during a hostage taking
while committing criminal harassment
was committed during terrorist activity
while using explosives in association with a criminal organization
while committing intimidation.[4]

I am certain that the kidnapping and forcible confinement would be enough to determine 1st degree. 1 st degree does not always mean pre meditation. Important to recognize the difference

 

[Truth Prevails]

This woman was brutally murdered and thrown in a ditch. This woman was carrying a child.

This woman made a mistake—apparently 6 years ago.

Has anyone ever made a mistake?

If so, do you think you would deserve to be murdered and thrown in a ditch? For any reason?

Some words by her current boyfriend:

Quote: Surkultay said Saunders was writing her thesis, focusing on missing and murdered aboriginal women, and often worked into the early morning hours.

“She was just so passionate about this topic and this whole school thing. She was so happy from the feedback she got from her professors — that was really, really important to her. She always wanted to go to law school. She was the most hardworking person I had ever seen, it was mind blowing,” he said.

Surkultay said his relationship with Saunders was serious. The couple even visited his family in Turkey.
“I thought we would be together for a long time,” he said.

“She meant everything to me. She was pretty much the one I wanted to be with for the rest of my life.”

Surkultay said Saunders was not three months pregnant, as has previously been reported, but said she took a pregnancy test a few weeks ago that was positive. He said she was going to have a blood test done to confirm it.

“It doesn't seem real to me. This is the calmest I have been for a while, I just keep having breakdowns, I don’t know what to do," he said.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...oyfriend-she-meant-everything-to-me-1.2545968

 

[appleeye]

I don't think anyone is stating Loretta or her unborn child deserved to be murdered. I believe that what people are doing is stretching, trying to find a connection. Somewhere.

When things like this happen, people try and make sense.

There is no sense, though. This should not have happened.

No one, no matter how grave their past, deserves this depravity.

 

[Truth Prevails]

1st degree murder in Canada isn't reserved for premeditated murder...

Any of the below qualifies...

First degree was planned and deliberate
was contracted
was committed against an identified peace officer
while committing or attempting to commit the hijacking of an aircraft
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit sexual assault with a weapon
while committing or attempting to commit aggravated sexual assault
while committing or attempting to commit kidnapping and forcible confinement
during a hostage taking
while committing criminal harassment
was committed during terrorist activity
while using explosives in association with a criminal organization
while committing intimidation.[4]

I am certain that the kidnapping and forcible confinement would be enough to determine 1st degree. 1 st degree does not always mean pre meditation. Important to recognize the difference

I was specifically referring to the murder of Loretta Saunders.

I probably had this article in mind:

Quote: "First-degree murder, there has to be some planning to the crime and our investigators are satisfied that that existed and that’s why the appropriate charges were laid today."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ates-charged-with-1st-degree-murder-1.2554052

If you are concerned about me understanding the premeditated murder charge in Canada, maybe you could supply a link for what you have apparently quoted.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I don't think anyone is stating Loretta or her unborn child deserved to be murdered. I believe that what people are doing is stretching, trying to find a connection. Somewhere.

When things like this happen, people try and make sense.

There is no sense, though. This should not have happened.

No one, no matter how grave their past, deserves this depravity.

The connection might be the murder, no?

 

[appleeye]

I was specifically referring to the murder of Loretta Saunders.

I probably had this article in mind:

Quote: "First-degree murder, there has to be some planning to the crime and our investigators are satisfied that that existed and that’s why the appropriate charges were laid today."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ates-charged-with-1st-degree-murder-1.2554052

If you are concerned about me understanding the premeditated murder charge in Canada, maybe you could supply a link for what you have apparently quoted.

Murder (Canadian law) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/section-231.html

The second list states all the ways in which murder can be first degree. Specifically,

ntimidation

(6.2) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of a person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 423.1.

Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping

(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:

(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);

(b) section 271 (sexual assault);

(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);

(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);

(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or

(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).

It does not state that it has to be planned.

I learned to look further than that in the Noelle Paquette case. It was assumed that because the two were charged with first degree murder that it was because it was premeditated. Her charge, from what I have understood is because of the kidnapping and sexual assault and eventual murder.

Canadian Law is different than U.S. Law.

 

[appleeye]

I was specifically referring to the murder of Loretta Saunders.

I probably had this article in mind:

Quote: "First-degree murder, there has to be some planning to the crime and our investigators are satisfied that that existed and that’s why the appropriate charges were laid today."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-...ates-charged-with-1st-degree-murder-1.2554052

If you are concerned about me understanding the premeditated murder charge in Canada, maybe you could supply a link for what you have apparently quoted.

From what I understand, the statement or the quote that he made is not true. It may be the reason that the charges were laid in this case (we won't know that until the trial, to be honest) but it is not the only way that 1st degree murder charges are laid.

I don't want to argue, just wanted to point out that this could be a false statement. Wouldn't be the first time a quote was incorrect by an officer.

 

[PonderingNS]

No one said LS deserved to die, period.
[modsnip]

 

[Simply Caustic]

methadone treatment is to get off of the drugs of oxycodone and/or oxycontin can't remember what one but its one or both.

Both. Any opiate addiction can be treated with varying dosages of methadone. Heroin, and painkillers such as vicodin, oxy, Norco, etc.

Sent from my KFTHWI

 

[mye400can]

No one said LS deserved to die, period.
[modsnip]

My wife thinks that a 3rd person was involved.

I'm starting to wonder myself. But then again we are no investigator so we don't have the experience to determine.

No question about it that the 2 arrested did it but did they do it with the help????

 

[mye400can]

Both. Any opiate addiction can be treated with varying dosages of methadone. Heroin, and painkillers such as vicodin, oxy, Norco, etc.

Sent from my KFTHWI

Thanks for letting us know.

 

[appleeye]

Thanks for letting us know.

Meth addictions also

 

[mye400can]

About the rent:

The apartment building is managed by "Timbercreek" cheap rent building management with quality apartments.

Where they owning back pay anyone know?

As rent is (see image)

So sounds like we have a few options to figure out.

1.) Did they owe back rent?
2.) Did Loretta want them to pay more then half of rent (it makes sence since it was 2 of them plus Loretta so Loretta should not have to pay half but less then half)

Maybe some of you have options?

 

[PonderingNS]

Been away for most of the evening but I had updated a couple things on the timeline before I left, so I will include them here as ****

****October 10, 2007 - has a life event on her fb as GOT MARRIED! (since we all know how much she lies, I have no idea of any truth to this)

Oct 14 2009 - Going to visit Ottawa & Petawawa

Oct 16 2009 - She posts west coast bound?

Aug 17 2010 - Living In Nova Scotia

Sep 19 2010 - Working at call centre Blue Ocean in Halifax.

Dec 10 2010 - references a bar "here" in Halifax. So still living there.

*****August 2011 - Blackberry check in has her on George Street in St. John's Newfoundland (true or not, I dont know)

Dec 27 2011 - Writes see ya NS, ...westbound (Edmonton)

*****Jan 22 2012 - Was in Pembroke, ON (know from her Blackberry check ins on facebook)

March 22 2012 - Got Engaged to Blake Leggette

****April 13 2012 - At Ottawa Airport waiting for "Blakey"

May 2012 - Living in Pembroke, On

*****June 4 2012 - Flew from Ottawa ON, to Calgary, AB

Aug 2012 - Moved to Victoria BC

October 2012 Living in Chilliwack, BC

February 2013 - Living in Calgary, AB

March 2013 - States back living in Pembroke, ON

Sept 27 2013 - Says this time next week were going to Halifax

October 2013 - Still in Pembroke

Oct 26 2013 - Posts that going to Calgary or "Cowtown" next month.

November 2013 - Living in Calgary, AB

January 2014 - Living in Halifax

February 2014- Living in Halifax, @ Cowie Hill

February 13 2014- Loretta Saunders goes to apartment where VH & BL are residing (renting etc)

Feb 17 2014 - LS reported Missing

Feb 19 2014 - VH and BL arrested in Harrow, ON

Just looking at their timeline again and thinking of the case of Sara Coates the young woman who lived in her van with her catsand a dog. She seemed to have a transient lifestyle too. I noticed that Victoria was in Calgary that summer and then left in Aug.
While it is likely nothing I thought it worth posting just incase as her van was found on native land a year later.
Silly question but did VH ever post pics of her cats ?
http://m.calgarysun.com/2013/05/09/police-seeks-leads-in-disappearance-of-calgary-woman-sara-coates-who-hasnt-been-seen-since-august
Van found :
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/mobile/police-recover-van-of-woman-missing-since-last-year-1.1513885