CANADA - Lucas Fowler, Australian & g/f Chynna Deese, American, murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019

[otto]

Here it says, "Police took 3 days to identify the couple due to the horrific nature of their injuries"

So I have to believe when the person that found her describes her as a beautiful young lady then he is talking more about who she was from pictures. I think this statement also shows that it wasn't decomposition that is making an open casket not an option but from the injuries themselves.

Killer ‘still on the loose’ with headstart

We've been down this route a few times. Licence plates are connected to a home address. The van was registered in a province where Lucas did not live or work, meaning the licence plate was registered to the wrong address. That contributed to a delay in the identification of bodies. If the van had been registered to his actual address at the ranch, police would have identified the victims the day they were found.

 

[PingTheRouter]

It's fantastic that information provided by investigators is being shared with the countries where the victims lived.

i work in the media now days for my new line of work and i deal with these companies quite a bit within the states and australia,
they are all intertwined together for information sharing while they do have local reporters on assignment in main cities like LA/NY maybe even Vancouver places like that, unless the reporter is on assignment they will just use their contact within their affiliates and run the stories under their brand, so you might see a report from channel 9 but in actual fact the report is from NBC/ whatever local affiliate for nbc and it gets posted under the Aussie persons name
the news business is weird and its confusing
*edit* wanted to make something really clear i am not a reporter

 

[zecats]

i work in the media now days for my new line of work and i deal with these companies quite a bit within the states and australia,
they are all intertwined together for information sharing while they do have local reporters on assignment in main cities like LA/NY maybe even Vancouver places like that, unless the reporter is on assignment they will just use their contact within their affiliates and run the stories under their brand, so you might see a report from channel 9 but in actual fact the report is from NBC/ whatever local affiliate for nbc and it gets posted under the Aussie persons name
the news business is weird and its confusing

Reason why we often see the same article posted as if it's more recent and from a different source? That gets frustrating as you think it's an update with new news.

 

[MistyWaters]

It's more than obvious that this is where the van was parked when the police arrive. Crime scene tape is clearly visible.

View attachment 194387

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...fowler-arrives-in-canada-20190721-p5297c.html

Here's a new photo of the van after it has been removed from the site, and it's a rear shot.

View attachment 194388

New clue in Canada highway murders

I notice the hood of the van is is no longer up and the rear window appears broken. That leads me to wonder if they were attacked after they chose to stay over in that same location for the night. If there was some sort of daylight altercation, the perp could’ve come back a second time after it got dark.

Daylight
4:45 am – 10:14 pm
17 hours, 29 minutes
Sunrise and sunset times in Liard River Hot Springs Park

 

[PingTheRouter]

Reason why we often see the same article posted as if it's more recent and from a different source? That gets frustrating as you think it's an update with new news.

can be yes, they are suppose to have something at the bottom like " taken from affiliate at NBC new york" or on the author line it might say " such and such from NBC affiliate contributed to this article" but what happens these days are they just pinch the article in full or with minor edits and run it without those caveats

 

[afitzy]

Another story about the two young men. Not sure if they need a separate thread

RCMP seeking missing men after Dease Lake vehicle fire; body found

Yes, seems like a new thread should be put up to follow both cases separately or this will get confusing quickly IMO. No mod seems to be on duty now...

 

[MistyWaters]

About body identification, as it took 3 days I don’t think it was as simple as locating ID or registration records -

How identification happens in straightforward cases:

The mainstay of the identification effort for most medical examiners and coroners in Canada is the visual identification. For example, someone is found dead in an apartment. The superintendent or a relative who found the person or otherwise knows the person then positively identifies the deceased. If what they say checks out with other identifying information — a passport or driver’s licence — that’s probably going to be sufficient.

“When you’re thinking about visual identification, that is often in circumstances where there are a number of other pieces of information that suggest that’s who the person is,” said Dr. Dirk Huyer, chief coroner in Ontario.

What if a body is decomposed or badly disfigured?

While fingerprints, X-rays, and characteristic tattoos or other markings on a body may help in the identification process, coroners will usually reach for dental records. That means taking the body to the local morgue, having a forensic dentist examine the teeth of the dead person, then comparing them with the person’s dental records.
CP Explains: How bodies are identified by the authorities

 

[TheSecondLaw]

For a bit of perspective on whether these two crime scenes are possibly connected :

My country (Australia) is similarly sparesly populated in regional areas as central / north BC seems to be. The main difference is that instead of mountains & vast forests, most of our geography is vast, hot dry deserts with smaller but still vast farmland even smaller pockets of forest which are still large themself.

If there were such crimes occurring on the highways in here one state, or even separate states, within the space of one week - Even if separated by hundreds of kms, it would be considered highly coincidental to be unrelated, within such a short timescale with such similar circumstances.

 

[afitzy]

Should it go under Crimes in the News for a murder or Missing for the 2 missing kids?

Seems like for now its a missing case.

 

[PingTheRouter]

If there were such crimes occurring on the highways in here one state, or even separate states, within the space of one week - Even if separated by hundreds of kms, it would be considered highly coincidental to be unrelated, within such a short timescale with such similar circumstances.

yeah iv tried to explain this as well, i think you did a better job of it
its like saying something in melbourne and mildura are related
it would be extreme unlikely but i do think some people here have a point it is odd about the deaths in this region close together and until they are explained they are cool by me to run ther theories as long as they can find something to connect them

 

[otto]

I notice the hood of the van is is no longer up and the rear window appears broken. That leads me to wonder if they were attacked after they chose to stay over in that same location for the night. If there was some sort of daylight altercation, the perp could’ve come back a second time after it got dark.

Daylight
4:45 am – 10:14 pm
17 hours, 29 minutes
Sunrise and sunset times in Liard River Hot Springs Park

I agree. The witness saw the man talking to the two victim, so they were outside the van and presumably wearing something on their feet because of the gravel. I'm wondering if the altercation with the suspect happened first, then the suspect came back later with a gun.

When found, the back window was smashed, Lucas was without shoes and Chynna was wearing one shoe. Smashing the back window suggests that the suspect broke into the van, which would happen if they were locked in the van to sleep. The side doors were found open as well. Lucas was a short distance from the van and Chynna was 5 meters from the him.

The first witness at the scene said that their body positions were identical, which he found odd.

 

[Zella]

So I have to believe when the person that found her describes her as a beautiful young lady then he is talking more about who she was from pictures. I think this statement also shows that it wasn't decomposition that is making an open casket not an option but from the injuries themselves.

SBM

That's what I thought too. She is a strikingly pretty lady in pictures, so I don't think it is unusual for him to comment on it. In fact, it is probably a very vivid contrast to what he saw in the poor guy's mind.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Like Chynna and Lucas, they were sleeping in their vehicle and traveling.

We don't know that. Chynna's body had one shoe on.

 

[zecats]

About body identification, as it took 3 days I don’t think it was as simple as locating ID or registration records -

How identification happens in straightforward cases:

The mainstay of the identification effort for most medical examiners and coroners in Canada is the visual identification. For example, someone is found dead in an apartment. The superintendent or a relative who found the person or otherwise knows the person then positively identifies the deceased. If what they say checks out with other identifying information — a passport or driver’s licence — that’s probably going to be sufficient.

“When you’re thinking about visual identification, that is often in circumstances where there are a number of other pieces of information that suggest that’s who the person is,” said Dr. Dirk Huyer, chief coroner in Ontario.

What if a body is decomposed or badly disfigured?

While fingerprints, X-rays, and characteristic tattoos or other markings on a body may help in the identification process, coroners will usually reach for dental records. That means taking the body to the local morgue, having a forensic dentist examine the teeth of the dead person, then comparing them with the person’s dental records.
CP Explains: How bodies are identified by the authorities

Visual identification would require someone who know the victims. In the case of a homicide in an apartment, one would expect the victim to be the tenant, and could call on people who know that person to positively id him/her. No one was around who actually knows Lucas and Chynna, and if vehicle registration wasn't helpful and their personal ID's were MIA, there you go..takes time.

 

[afitzy]

Dease Lake Vehicle Fire article, picture of camper van, 2 missing people descriptions and pictures:
RCMP seeking missing men after Dease Lake vehicle fire; body found

Quotes from above article:
"19-year-old Kam McLeod and 18-year-old Bryer Schmegelsky from Port Alberni have not been in contact with their family for the last few days".

“Kam and Bryer have periodically connected with family and friends over the past week, and it is possible that they are now in area without cell coverage”, says Dawn Roberts of BC RCMP Communications".

“However, we have found their vehicle, and have not been able to locate either of them at this time. We are asking for Kam or Bryer to connect with police right away and let us know you are okay. Or, we ask that anyone who may have spoken to or seen them over the last few days to call police so we can get a better understanding as to where they might be or their plans.”

Kam McLeod is described as:

• 6 foot 4
• Approximately 169 pounds
• Dark brown hair and facial hair
• Brown eyes

Bryer Schmegelsky is described as:

• 6 foot 4
• Approximately 169 pounds
• Sandy brown hair

"The two were travelling in a red and grey Dodge pickup truck with a sleeping camper and BC License plate LW6433. They were last seen travelling south from the Super A general store in Dease Lake at around 3:15 p.m. on Thursday, July 18, 2019".

"Police also confirm that the deceased person located about 2 kms away from the vehicle fire is not Kam or Bryer, but is believed to be a male that investigators are working to identify. It is unclear at this time how this deceased male might be connected with the vehicle fire or the two missing men".

"Police are acknowledging there are growing community concerns about the ongoing homicide investigations in northern B.C., pointing out the Dease Lake incident occurred on July 19, and the double homicide involving a young Australian / American couple occurred between July 14-15, about 470 kilometres away".

"Anyone with any information about Kam and Bryer is asked to please call Dease Lake RCMP 250-771-4111, Crimestoppers at 1-800-222-8477, or by leaving a tip online at www.crimestoppers.net".

 

[otto]

About body identification, as it took 3 days I don’t think it was as simple as locating ID or registration records -

How identification happens in straightforward cases:

The mainstay of the identification effort for most medical examiners and coroners in Canada is the visual identification. For example, someone is found dead in an apartment. The superintendent or a relative who found the person or otherwise knows the person then positively identifies the deceased. If what they say checks out with other identifying information — a passport or driver’s licence — that’s probably going to be sufficient.

“When you’re thinking about visual identification, that is often in circumstances where there are a number of other pieces of information that suggest that’s who the person is,” said Dr. Dirk Huyer, chief coroner in Ontario.

What if a body is decomposed or badly disfigured?

While fingerprints, X-rays, and characteristic tattoos or other markings on a body may help in the identification process, coroners will usually reach for dental records. That means taking the body to the local morgue, having a forensic dentist examine the teeth of the dead person, then comparing them with the person’s dental records.
CP Explains: How bodies are identified by the authorities

True, however in a motor vehicle fatality, even if the victims are burned beyond recognition, the first point of contact is the address where the vehicle is registered. If that information is false, as was the case here, they then need ID. That was also missing in this case. Police eventually discovered Chynna's passport hidden in the van. That led to their identification.

If the vehicle had been registered to the correct address, the ranch, police would have gone to the ranch on Monday and immediately learned the name and description of the owner and his girlfriend, and they would have been able to follow up with confirming that they were the victims.

This couple were not reported missing, so there was nothing to match them to in terms of tattoos or anything else. Police needed something connected to the crime scene (e.g.: the vehicle) to identify the bodies, and in this case it took 3 days to do that.

 

[Birmingplumb]

Teens missing who have beard, but their burning grey truck and a dead guy found ....hmm

 

[otto]

We don't know that. Chynna's body had one shoe on.

What I mean is that they had a camper van, like the missing boys had a camper truck.

 

[PingTheRouter]

What I mean is that they had a camper van, like the missing boys had a camper truck.

i see a pattern here someone is very unhappy and angry about camper type vehicles

 

[MistyWaters]

True, however in a motor vehicle fatality, even if the victims are burned beyond recognition, the first point of contact is the address where the vehicle is registered. If that information is false, as was the case here, they then need ID. That was also missing in this case. Police eventually discovered Chynna's passport hidden in the van. That led to their identification.

If the vehicle had been registered to the correct address, the ranch, police would have gone to the ranch on Monday and immediately learned the name and description of the owner and his girlfriend, and they would have been able to follow up with confirming that they were the victims.

This couple were not reported missing, so there was nothing to match them to in terms of tattoos or anything else. Police needed something connected to the crime scene (e.g.: the vehicle) to identify the bodies, and in this case it took 3 days to do that.

Yes if that was the case, that would certainly add complexity at the onset. Then after it was determined who the pair likely were, according to my link a second confirmation would be required, commonly either visual or dental records. That would take additional time as well, especially if disfigurement was involved and dental records were required from two separate foreign countries.