Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[Zella]

May not be related but Sarah Leamon (AS’s lawyer) tweeted to watch her on CTV tonight. Interesting comment followed.
Sarah Leamon on Twitter

Very interesting! Counting on our Canadian friends here to keep us posted about what she says!

 

[SnooperDuper]

In this case, LE may conclude they killed 3 people, but no presentation of the evidence or an assessment thereof evidently needs to be made. That’s my only point.

That's not at all true. As I wrote before, the evidence will be presented in a public written report.

 

[Bluedaisy100]

Going back to the way back machine, in this case the 3rd week of July, why were Kam and Bryer's names brought up as missing persons? Did the parents report this to the police or were they already on the RCMP's radar as perps? Did they show up on dashcams? Why them and not the hundreds of others who traveled the same roads?

 

[NJSleuth91]

Going back to the way back machine, in this case the 3rd week of July, why were Kam and Bryer's names brought up as missing persons? Did the parents report this to the police or were they already on the RCMP's radar as perps? Did they show up on dashcams? Why them and not the hundreds of others who traveled the same roads?

IIRC they were reported missing after their burnt truck/camper was found. Before that nobody was concerned since they were in an area without much cellphone or internet service.

 

[Zella]

Going back to the way back machine, in this case the 3rd week of July, why were Kam and Bryer's names brought up as missing persons? Did the parents report this to the police or were they already on the RCMP's radar as perps? Did they show up on dashcams? Why them and not the hundreds of others who traveled the same roads?

They were announced as missing on July 21 because their truck was found burning 2 days before and they hadn't been in touch with family.

 

[katydid23]

Based on the evidence that has been revealed to date regarding the double murder, I am as likely to have committed these murders as the they are.
Maybe it would be prudent for us to hold off making intractable conclusions until we learn what evidence the RCMP has, or doesn’t have.

You are as likely a suspect as they were?

Were you driving on the same highway, and did you kill another man in cold blood, within days?

 

[Trooper]

That's not at all true. As I wrote before, the evidence will be presented in a public written report.

Considering there will now be no trial of Kam and Bry for the calculated murders of Miss Deese, Mr Fowler and Prof Dyck, I would expect that report to be finely detailed and attentive to all the bases, including rumour, conjecture, and inconclusive evidence.

I would be very surprised if it was a one pager, signed off halfway down .

 

[Trooper]

Going back to the way back machine, in this case the 3rd week of July, why were Kam and Bryer's names brought up as missing persons? Did the parents report this to the police or were they already on the RCMP's radar as perps? Did they show up on dashcams? Why them and not the hundreds of others who traveled the same roads?

The RCMP did not elaborate on the factors that led them to make that conclusion, but it was hinted at that it had something to do with the weapon of choice, and the caliber of the ammunition.

Which led me to believe that the same gun, same sort of ammo, was used for all three killings. My opinion.

It was enough, though , to set in motion one of Canada's biggest manhunts , with umpteen personnel, aircraft, specialized vehicles, defence forces, et al. So , obviously, it wasn't a trivial scent that set off this kind of response from the RCMP.

And no, the parents did not report them as missing, one has to assume they were not missing, in a parental context, according to a parental schedule.

 

[steelybird]

Yeah a lot of large cities, even in the US, are now using mobile crisis response units, so people in mental health crisis don't need the additional stress of dealing with the police. But would Port Alberni, an economically struggling town of 20K people, have that?

Yes. They have their own branch of MCFD as well as Child and Youth Mental Health. I’m pretty sure all communities do in B.C. even the more remote ones. They may not show up on the scene in the moment with police (depending on circumstances) but a report would be made to MCFD and a Social Worker would follow up. Same is true for hospital contact. Also, there are many instances where the child/youth lives in a remote area and services are accessed elsewhere within the province or territory. Sometimes even out of province/territory. I’m from the lower mainland and we get approximately 30% of our referrals from out of our region. Mostly from the island and NWT.

 

[Trooper]

May not be related but Sarah Leamon (AS’s lawyer) tweeted to watch her on CTV tonight. Interesting comment followed.
Sarah Leamon on Twitter

I see that AS is still insisting that , despite the RCMP refusal, he wants to see that video of his son's 'last will and testament'.

Maybe the RCMP are with withholding it from Alan because Bryer said so , said he didn't want Alan to see it on that Video clip.

It isn't always the heavy hand of officialdom that prevents people from having what they want.

 

[acutename]

It would have been very surprising if the RCMP had charged them, considering the difficulty for a coroner to establish who shot whom. So many variables, the RCMP would have been waiting to talk to the killers first.

Perhaps Kam and Bry shot Lucas and Chynna together, that is, they both , each , shot each victim. As a bonding dynamic. Not an unknown event. Perhaps Bry did the shooting and Kam did the watching. And admiring. Perhaps they drew short straws to decide who would murder whom. Perhaps Kam shot them both and Bry watched , ( and admired ) ..

Whatever the sequence was, it didn't disturb the partnership, as they both went on , some days, and some klms later to murder Prof . Dyck. It is reasonable to assume therefore that they were pleased with themselves, as otherwise, they might have split up , as a protest.
No such of a thing. They went on together, hunting down another person to kill.

The lack of a charge certainly wouldn't , in any sane gathering, be construed as a basis for claiming the innocence of Kam and Bry, under the circumstances.

US has felony-murder - eliminates these niceties... if you are part of a felony- robbery, assault, drive a get away car, etc. and some one dies, you are responsible for the murder too. If LE kills some one while trying to apprehend you, you are responsible for that too.

 

[Trooper]

US has felony-murder - eliminates these niceties... if you are part of a felony- robbery, assault, drive a get away car, etc. and some one dies, you are responsible for the murder too. If LE kills some one while trying to apprehend you, you are responsible for that too.

I understand those niceties. However, it would still be a matter of deliberation for the RCMP to try and ascertain exactly who shot whom.

Did Bryer shoot the three and Kam watched?

Did Kam shoot the three and Bryer watched?

Did Kam shoot Miss Deese and Bryer shoot Mr Fowler?

Did they both have a shot into each of the victims?

Which one shot Prof Dyck ? one, the other, or both?

Questions that , for the sake of laying the case down may never be answered , but I doubt that would stop the RCMP from trying every angle to get a consensus on those kind of questions.

That both would have taken the rap regardless of who did in fact murder whom is now void, since no trial will be held.

 

[SteveP]

I see that AS is still insisting that , despite the RCMP refusal, he wants to see that video of his son's 'last will and testament'.

Maybe the RCMP are with withholding it from Alan because Bryer said so , said he didn't want Alan to see it on that Video clip.

It isn't always the heavy hand of officialdom that prevents people from having what they want.

BBM: I have seen this supposition a few times, and I just don't understand why anyone would assume that RCMP would honor a video request from an alleged triple murderer whom they had just spent three weeks searching for in a nationwide manhunt. It is basically saying "yeah, he was a horrible animal that killed these innocent people, but he doesn't want his dad to see this video, so let's make sure we honor his request". Does not seem likely to me. JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Thanks, I don’t view it as the same. An unsolved homicide remains open for LE to continue investigating, and to hopefully solve. If no suspect is charged, why would there be a public interest in having the evidence reviewed by an independent party? I don’t see that. When a suspect is charged, a trial ensues, and the evidence is presented and evaluated in court.
In this case, LE may conclude they killed 3 people, but no presentation of the evidence or an assessment thereof evidently needs to be made. That’s my only point.

Why? Because if oversight is required to determine why nobody will be charged in the murders of L&C or DL, why isn’t oversight required to determine the integrity of every other police file where no charges have been laid?

You may be thinking of the police update as a one-sided conviction of two dead people. My point was that’s not it - much like the Danforth shooting, the purpose is to assure the public the reasons the homicides of L&C and LD will not result in any charges being laid.

If the families of the victims are not satisfied with their conclusions and believe that prosecution of an alternate suspect is possible in order that “justice is served”, it’s their right to file a formal complaint. The RCMP is not autonomous.

“The Royal Canadian Mounted Police is organized under the authority of the RCMP Act. In accordance with the Act, it is headed by the Commissioner, who, under the direction of the Minister of Public Safety Canada, has the control and management of the Force and all matters connected therewith.”
Organizational structure - Royal Canadian Mounted Police

 

[Trooper]

BBM: I have seen this supposition several times, and I just don't understand why anyone would assume that RCMP would honor a video request from an alleged triple murderer whom they have just spent three weeks searching for in a nationwide manhunt. It is like saying "Yeah, he was a horrible animal that killed these innocent people, but he doesn't want his dad to see this video, so let's make sure we honor his request". Does not seem likely to me. JMO

Since the video itself belongs to his mother, she would have been the one to instruct the RCMP to inform Alan of this reality.

And one can see the mothers point of view. She has had to maintain a sort of co parenting arrangement with Alan under what appears to be grim circumstances, and now that the reason for that arrangement is no longer valid, ie the death of the child in question, she perhaps sees the contract as one that is well and truly over.

who knows? what is known, is she is the next of kin, she disperses the video as she sees fit, and she doesn't see any purpose in distributing it to Alan, and perhaps she suspects he would onsell it to the nearest newspaper for the biggest sum he could wangle and have it displayed across Fox news day and night for a week.


Maybe, just maybe, she doesn't want that outcome.

I merely put the point of view forward that it isn't always officialdom that withholds stuff. .

 

[musicaljoke]

In the grander scheme of things, this case is young; 45 days since C&L were found, 21 days since K&B were found.

Very true. The case is young. If students were expected to hand in a 45 page research report is just a couple of weeks they'd be spitting tacks!

 

[acutename]

No, that one source does not make it a fact. We're all speculating here. It's whether you choose to believe a source or not. I choose to believe what the co-worker said - because it fits logically in the grand scheme of things. Something happened for the boy to end up at his grandmother's (whom I believe would have been mellower and more forgiving of the boy).

I thought there was a step parent and half sibling with BS's mother and that dynamic was not working.... did I imagine that information? In that case, the grandmother's house, where BS could be outside the other family, could result in less conflict.

Daily Mail mentions a step father:
EXCLUSIVE: Father of teen Canadian murder suspect was convicted of harassing his estranged wife and repeatedly hauled to court - deeply affecting his son who turned introverted and spent his time on YouTube and playing violent video games

 

[SteveP]

Since the video itself belongs to his mother, she would have been the one to instruct the RCMP to inform Alan of this reality.

And one can see the mothers point of view. She has had to maintain a sort of co parenting arrangement with Alan under what appears to be grim circumstances, and now that the reason for that arrangement is no longer valid, ie the death of the child in question, she perhaps sees the contract as one that is well and truly over.

who knows? what is known, is she is the next of kin, she disperses the video as she sees fit, and she doesn't see any purpose in distributing it to Alan, and perhaps she suspects he would onsell it to the nearest newspaper for the biggest sum he could wangle and have it displayed across Fox news day and night for a week.


Maybe, just maybe, she doesn't want that outcome.

I merely put the point of view forward that it isn't always officialdom that withholds stuff. .

Does the video actually belong to her though? My understanding was that she has either seen about 30 seconds of video, or has seen the transcript of 30 seconds of video, but I assume, perhaps falsely, that the video itself is still in the possession of RCMP. Do we actually know that it belongs to her, or maybe even ever will?

 

[Link Haze]

I thought there was a step parent and half sibling with BS's mother and that dynamic was not working.... did I imagine that information? In that case, the grandmother's house, where BS could be outside the other family, could result in less conflict.

I think so too, and I agree there would be less conflict.

 

[SovereignSnake]

Going back to the way back machine, in this case the 3rd week of July, why were Kam and Bryer's names brought up as missing persons? Did the parents report this to the police or were they already on the RCMP's radar as perps? Did they show up on dashcams? Why them and not the hundreds of others who traveled the same roads?

As I recall, the RCMP contacted Kam's parents after the Dodge pickup was discovered on fire as well as Leonard's body being discovered down the road. I'm not certain how soon they got in contact with Kam or Bryer's parents and grandma. None of the families had heard a word from Kam and Bryer but also anticipated they had no signal or internet access and so they were presumed "missing." There were also worries that there was a serial killer roaming the highway in British Columbia since the fire and Leonard's murder happened days after the discovery of Deese and Fowler. The truck fire was logged by the RCMP shortly after 4pm on July 19th but I'm not sure how long it took for them to get in touch with Kam's parents after they traced the registration. The earliest article I could find on them as "missing" was on the evening of July 21st then by July 23rd they were listed as "suspects" and charged with the second degree murder of Leonard after they were spotted in the RAV (also revealed on the 23rd.) Also keep in mind that by this time they had already ditched the RAV in Sundance the night previous on the 22nd round 7pm. Two other things to keep in mind as to the speed this whole thing moved; Leonard Dyck was not even identified until July 24th and the Meadow Lake Co-Op footage from the early afternoon of July 21st didn't get released until July 23rd. Everyone was literally a day late and a dollar short.