Canada - Lucas Fowler, Chynna Deese, and Leonard Dyck, all murdered, Alaska Hwy, BC, Jul 2019 #18

[Zella]

@otto's maps rock.

Ahh, this brings back memories...
I haven't seen seen it for a while and what pops out at me now is, where were K&B on the 16th and 17th?

I've wondered that, too. I don't think I have seen any confirmation of where they were before the afternoon of the 18th when they were in Jade City. One article makes vague references to them camping in the general area, but even then the dates aren't discussed.

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

 

[LadyL]

Sure, just regular killers.

"Innocent until proven guilty" is for the courtroom: at the start of the trial, things are set up such that no one has any prior knowledge of the suspects or the crime, and the trial begins with a clean slate. Evidence is then presented to prove the accused's guilt.

Saying "innocent until proven guilty" is a declaration that nothing that has been presented in the media counts for anything, and that's just not true. In the real world outside of a courtroom, we are exposed to all sorts of evidence, and we shouldn't ignore it. There's lots of evidence that KM and BS acted in a guilty manner, and there are guilty circumstances such as LD's RAV4 ending up in Gillam with KM and BS. We can't declare them innocent because we know far more already than a newly formed jury would.

Yes! Great post.

 

[sandbar]

I've wondered that, too. I don't think I have seen any confirmation of where they were before the afternoon of the 18th when they were in Jade City. One article makes vague references to them camping in the general area, but even then the dates aren't discussed.

Searching for answers: Sense of unease lingers in B.C.’s isolated north as police hunt suspects in remote killings

Yes, the quote was something like they were seen in the area for a few days. One report had them hitchhiking in opposite directions at one point, but no dates...

 

[Schmoosh]

Yes! Great post.

Except, if you're a juror you're expected to ignore whatever has been in the media, and rightfully so. Changes of venue are requested and occur because jury pools have potentially been tainted by media garbage.

You're expected to sit in a courtroom and judge your peers by the facts. Plain and simple. Not having been influenced by media spin or your cousin's opinion or even your own biases.

A fair judicial system expects this of all of us.

If LD's RAV4 ending up in Gillam with KM and BS is evidence, it's evidence to be considered by the jury in totality of all other evidence.

Otherwise, God help us all if all it takes is one person who thought they saw something, one reporter's sentence, one neighbour who has an opinion, one mistaken witness, to convict a person.

I admire that, in Canada, before (and sometimes during trials) we have publication bans and, for the most part, if during investigations, media and witnesses and relatives are asked to shut their traps by LE, they comply in order to protect the investigation's integrity.

<modsnip>

 

[sandbar]

Manhunt suspects previously spotted in Fairview: RCMP

Thanks for that!

Revisiting this article makes me wonder why K's picture looks regular but B's looks like it's a photograph of a screen.

ETA: and that royal-ish blue triangle, I guess there's a person or reflection there?

 

[srper2]

Thanks for that!

Revisiting this article makes me wonder why K's picture looks regular but B's looks like it's a photograph of a screen.

ETA: and that royal-ish blue triangle, I guess there's a person or reflection there?

Is the blue triangle the edge of KM's shirt sleeve?

 

[Zella]

Is the blue triangle the edge of KM's shirt sleeve?

Yes!

 

[sandbar]

Is the blue triangle the edge of KM's shirt sleeve?

Awesome! I never thought of that, I love it when that happens. I've also thought of K's shirt as a deeper indigo, or faded favorite black t-shirt that isn't really black any more, not royal-ish blue.

 

[Zella]

Awesome! I never thought of that, I love it when that happens. I've also thought of K's shirt as a deeper indigo, or faded favorite black t-shirt that isn't really black any more, not royal-ish blue.

The difference in color is really quite noticeable. I always thought it was a darker blue but that one screenshot makes it look much more vivid. Not sure if it is the lighting or what the deal is.

FWIW, I have found where you can buy that shirt online, and it seems to come in a variety of colors. On Redbubble, it comes in 17 different colors, including a blue that seems to match Kam's. But black is an option, too!

 

[LadyL]

I could easily be wrong, but I think, in Canada, an employer can only ask for a criminal background check in certain situations, like in positions of authority over minors and other vulnerable populations, positions of trust, like letter carriers etc.

ETA It's another side of presumed innocence...

nope not true

Except, if you're a juror you're expected to ignore whatever has been in the media, and rightfully so. Changes of venue are requested and occur because jury pools have potentially been tainted by media garbage.

You're expected to sit in a courtroom and judge your peers by the facts. Plain and simple. Not having been influenced by media spin or your cousin's opinion or even your own biases.

A fair judicial system expects this of all of us.

[sbm]

right, but we are not jurors and WS is not a courtroom and therefore we can speculate and conclude guilt at will

 

[sandbar]

New Topic:​

I was in an army surplus store recently and got to talking about camo, it's different patterns worn by different armies and in which environmental conditions. Military people can figure out what war someone fought in by the camo they were wearing.
I wonder what war BS' camo was in.

Any military folk out there?

 

[FactFinder3000]

Sorry, I've missed your train of thought here. Could you expand on it? If I recall several weeks ago, Site C was discussed (but I wasn't really paying attention)

They apparently drove straight from Port Alberni to the Site C Dam, a 16 hour drive (or so). The BC government has been heavily touting all the jobs site C is creating. It seems highly unlikely that these two young job hunters would just blow through Fort St John without checking out the job situation. It would perfectly explain their detour east, if they were indeed headed to Whitehorse.

 

[Zella]

New Topic:​

I was in an army surplus store recently and got to talking about camo, it's different patterns worn by different armies and in which environmental conditions. Military people can figure out what war someone fought in by the camo they were wearing.
I wonder what war BS' camo was in.

Any military folk out there?

I wondered if it was hunting camo, but I have no idea. Would be very interested in hearing from someone familiar with camo.

 

[sandbar]

They apparently drove straight from Port Alberni to the Site C Dam,

Do you have a link to that info, please?

 

[FactFinder3000]

New Topic:​

I was in an army surplus store recently and got to talking about camo, it's different patterns worn by different armies and in which environmental conditions. Military people can figure out what war someone fought in by the camo they were wearing.
I wonder what war BS' camo was in.

Any military folk out there?

Yeah, I tried to find something similar in various places, but failed. One thing to note is that his outfit apparently came with some kind of matching accessory belt. The bulging pockets in this picture are not part of his jacket. It's quite an unusual pattern, it seems.

RCMP investigating photos of B.C. murder suspect, Nazi paraphernalia

 

[Jan424]

Yeah I can't tell for sure it is a phone. I just can't think of what else he would be holding that way.

To me, in the first pic, he seems to be looking in the distance, not back at the car or at a phone. But in the second one, it looks to me like his head is turned around looking into the car, so my theory is he is talking to Bryer. It almost looks to me like he is answering a question or literally just turned around to tell Bryer something since he is still holding what looks to be a phone. I never saw pics of Bryer from Fairview, so I assume he stayed in the car.

All MOO.

I was thinking he might be looking towards the gas stands (or whatever the heck they are called) in the first pic but could be wrong about that. And that’s what it looks like to me too, that he’s looking towards the car inside (Bryer) in the second pic. If that’s his phone, that is a great find @Zella!
ETA: MOO

 

[NJSleuth91]

New Topic:​

I was in an army surplus store recently and got to talking about camo, it's different patterns worn by different armies and in which environmental conditions. Military people can figure out what war someone fought in by the camo they were wearing.
I wonder what war BS' camo was in.

Any military folk out there?

Wasn't it just a hunting outfit? It doesn't look old or worn or anything, so I don't think it was bought secondhand. JMO.

They apparently drove straight from Port Alberni to the Site C Dam, a 16 hour drive (or so). The BC government has been heavily touting all the jobs site C is creating. It seems highly unlikely that these two young job hunters would just blow through Fort St John without checking out the job situation. It would perfectly explain their detour east, if they were indeed headed to Whitehorse.

This is an interesting theory. And maybe if they found out they weren't qualified for any of the jobs, that could have pushed them into a rage. Like maybe they felt like that was their last hope for their future. I'm not sure if the timescale works out though to give them enough time to look for jobs along the way.

 

[sandbar]

Yeah, I tried to find something similar in various places, but failed. One thing to note is that his outfit apparently came with some kind of matching accessory belt. The bulging pockets in this picture are not part of his jacket. It's quite an unusual pattern, it seems.

RCMP investigating photos of B.C. murder suspect, Nazi paraphernalia

Are the bulging pockets part of straps on a backpack he's wearing?
Is it ammo in the pockets?
I really hope there are some WSers who know this stuff ...
In the gas mask pic, in the background, I got sad when I saw the totally gramma wallpaper. I zoomed in and there's a fancy Happy Birthday banner...

 

[Zella]

In the gas mask pic, in the background, I got sad when I saw the totally gramma wallpaper. I zoomed in and there's a fancy Happy Birthday banner...

SBM

I noticed that Happy Birthday banner, too, and I can't even explain why, but it just made me so sad.

I also noticed he took a pic of part of his thumb (I think) with that one. Like he was fumbling around while trying to snap the pic.

I was thinking he might be looking towards the gas stands (or whatever the heck they are called) in the first pic but could be wrong about that. And that’s what it looks like to me too, that he’s looking towards the car inside (Bryer) in the second pic. If that’s his phone, that is a great find @Zella!
ETA: MOO

Oh that's a good point--he could be looking at the pumps! Depending on where the store is in relation to the pumps, maybe he is looking at the store? Or perhaps the road? It's hard to tell since the photos show so little of their surroundings.

All MOO

 

[Lalalacasbah]

Possibly but as recent as the last PC announcing the bodies were recovered the RCMP had not found a prior connection.

“However, according to Hackett, there is no evidence suggesting a link between the suspects and victims.”
B.C. murder suspects Bryer Schmegelsky, Kam McLeod believed to be dead

I remember that quote and IIRC, it was early on when it first happened?

I took that comment as there was no link to each other in their lives/did not know each other in life (through work, family, friendship, relationship, through association, through socializing, etc.) and were strangers.

I thought it still keeps the door open for a random encounter though. Especially early on, when they haven't traced everyone's steps. I still feel it's possible there might've been a brief encounter with the 4 on the road, which I'd still classify and no connection since they technically didn't "know each other". JMO

I find that statement tricky and maybe it's protocol in crimes to mention if victims/suspects are known to each other? Then the public knows if crime is random as opposed through association (gangs, drugs, criminal lifestyle). Thinking out loud!